How much longer can our government last?

jprender

average_runner wrote: »

If you think FG and Labour will do better than FF, well ask someone who grew up in the 80's, things were alot worst with them, all they did was borrow and look after the farmers.

All FF are doing is borrowing and looking after themselves and their buddies.

And don't get me started on how they squandered so much money that any Govt in the 80's could only have dreamed about.

bauderline

hobochris wrote: »

your right it is needed now! but from what I see FF seem to be waiting for the IMF to force their hand.

Agreed... I think we are at the point of needing a complete reboot of the political system in this country.. it really is a shambles in its current form...

P.

bauderline

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Sorry, but thats just rubbish. . . FF are not 'waiting' for anything. . They have cut spending wherever they can in the public sector, they had an emergency budget earlier in the year. They are trying to bring in NAMA as quickly as possible. They have already begun to put the wheels in motion for big public sector pay cuts in the budget (hence the union reactions)

You may not agree with anything they are doing but you cannot accuse them of doing nothing !

I think a lot more could have and should have been done by this stage... to much waiting around on the production of reports.... as usual...

hobochris

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Sorry, but thats just rubbish. . . FF are not 'waiting' for anything. . They have cut spending wherever they can in the public sector, they had an emergency budget earlier in the year. They are trying to bring in NAMA as quickly as possible. They have already begun to put the wheels in motion for big public sector pay cuts in the budget (hence the union reactions)

You may not agree with anything they are doing but you cannot accuse them of doing nothing !

Since you bring up Nama i have a couple of points to make on it:
1.It is not the only solution to the problem despite what FF are insisting.
2. They can put as many debts as they want on the back of the taxpayer but their is still no guarantee the banks will start lending again or that Nama money will not be used for investor bailout, where by the bank investors use Nama as an opportunity to take there money any run.

hallelujajordan

hobochris wrote: »

Since you bring up Nama i have a couple of points to make on it:
1.It is not the only solution to the problem despite what FF are insisting.
2. They can put as many debts as they want on the back of the taxpayer but their is still no guarantee the banks will start lending again or that Nama money will not be used for investor bailout, where by the bank investors use Nama as an opportunity to take there money any run.

There are plenty of other places to debate NAMA. . whether or not you agree to it is not relevant to this argument . . except that it appears that FG are reluctant to make any overt moves to bring down the government until NAMA is in place. . .

average_runner

And Kenny is very quiet over the Odonoghue affair also! I say he has a few skeletons in his closet when he was minister of Trade and Tourism! Especailly his trips to France to bring Tour de France here!!

markesmith

It's widely assumed that O'Donoghue's golden handshake is dependent on him keeping schtum about other "transgressions" by politicians during the Celtic Tiger era.

jprender

Can someone tell me why he is getting this golden handshake ?

He has resigned afterall no ?


If I resigned my position to take up a job for less pay, I don't think I would get a wad of money to compensate me.


It's a real two fingers to the public from JOD and FF. What they are saying is that there was a savage waste of money by JOD and so he is resigning, but hey, lets just waste a whiole lot more money and give him a big fat wedge.



WTF are these guys thinking ?

hallelujajordan

jprender wrote: »

Can someone tell me why he is getting this golden handshake ?

He has resigned afterall no ?


If I resigned my position to take up a job for less pay, I don't think I would get a wad of money to compensate me.


It's a real two fingers to the public from JOD and FF. What they are saying is that there was a savage waste of money by JOD and so he is resigning, but hey, lets just waste a whiole lot more money and give him a big fat wedge.



WTF are these guys thinking ?

What golden handshake are you talking about. I haven't seen anything in the news about him getting anything to go ? ?

jprender

hallelujajordan wrote: »

What golden handshake are you talking about. I haven't seen anything in the news about him getting anything to go ? ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/odonoghue-to-quit-in-expenses-scandal-1905981.html

hallelujajordan

jprender wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/odonoghue-to-quit-in-expenses-scandal-1905981.html

It sounds a little speculative at the moment and it will be interesting to see how this develops. .

I would share your view that he should get no severance package, seeing as he has resigned. I'm sure he can well survive on the combination of his ministerial pension and TD salary.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

It sounds a little speculative at the moment and it will be interesting to see how this develops. .

I would share your view that he should get no severance package, seeing as he has resigned. I'm sure he can well survive on the combination of his ministerial pension and TD salary.

The finance details of his leaving are in a number of todays papers.

He certainly knows where the skeletons are in the cupboard for all involved - so ALL will want him to go quietly.
As long as he says nothing IN the Dail, they have got away with it.

(To explain: Anything can be said in the Dail. One person can call another a raving, murdering, alcoholic degenerate and get away with it.
Another person can ask for the statement to be withdrawn but beside barring from the Dail for a time, nothing more could be done realistically.
- Now if the same person was to say the exact same OUTSIDE the Dail - he/she would get their ass sued off quick smart.
You will sometimes hear politicians stating "I dare you to step outside and say that" - this is why!)

...So the quieter JOD leaves the Dail, the better for all concerned in it.

jprender

If he exposed the whole lot of the greedy politicians, he might leave with a shred of a good reputation.


Snowballs chance though. He'll keep it all in and take the dirty, filthy, bung.

Biggins

jprender wrote: »

If he exposed the whole lot of the greedy politicians, he might leave with a shred of a good reputation.

Snowballs chance though. He'll keep it all in and take the dirty, filthy, bung.

Realistically, it would be the honest better option for him.
If he is re-elected or not, at his age he can retire easily now.
He don't need the further stress of having to worry about himself getting 'fire' for outing someone else and been considered maybe 'a grass'.

Most of us at his stage of life would likely do the same.
Plus he will hang onto more friends, etc that way.

irish_bob

jprender wrote: »

I think that over the last decade, FF, through social partnership, have been cosier with the unions than Labour.

No point trying to get the sh1t back in the horse now.

fianna fail would get cosey with a coven of witches if their was enough votes in it for them , labour on the other hand genuinly share the same idealogy as the unions , the unions and public sector are all labour have , you cannot turn on your base and achieve anything in politics

av8rirl

irish_bob wrote: »

fianna fail would get cosey with a coven of witches if their was enough votes in it for them , labour on the other hand genuinly share the same idealogy as the unions , the unions and public sector are all labour have , you cannot turn on your base and achieve anything in politics

The unions are a drastically changed thing from what they used to be... the unions were originally set up to get a fair deal for workers and to make safer work practices for workers.

The unions nowadays are a dictatorial graball affair with very well paid people running the show. There is no debate with the unions... they don't want what is fair anymore... they just want to take take take...

Take An Post for example... if two workers need to be brought in on a Sat to do some overtime... it also means that two workers have to be brought in in Sligo, Carlow, Cork and some other places... even though there is no work for them to do... all because of a union demand from a previous deal!

So is that what Labour is really about? Graball and take all?

Biggins

av8rirl wrote: »

The unions are a drastically changed thing from what they used to be... the unions were originally set up to get a fair deal for workers and to make safer work practices for workers.

The unions nowadays are a dictatorial graball affair with very well paid people running the show. There is no debate with the unions... they don't want what is fair anymore... they just want to take take take...

To be fair, some are still good and needed.
It just that others now try to operate like a legalised mafia.

ednwireland

this may need a new thread,

if the greens pull out (unlikely IMO, theyve sold their souls)

the dail does not fall and an election happen immediately unless the taosaich goes to the president and disolves oireachtas there and then ?

surely the majority party (FF) can try and cobble together another coalition ?
and if not continue in gov as a minority if a larger coalition cant be arranged from all the other parties ?

if the gov. is to fall there would need to ba motion of no confidence which they would lose (assuming everyone else voted against them

or am i missing something ?

turgon

The Taoiseach can only continue leading as long as ha has confidence from the majority of the house. So while the Taoiseach can continue if the Greens pull, he can only do so for as long as a no-confidence motion isnt brought against him. He probably would jump ship rather than face such a vote which wold be brought on pretty rapid.

Minority governments work on the basis that another party supports them in confidence votes asfaik. So in either this situation or one where Cowen would look for a new coalition, he would need to woo another party. Every party but the Greens looks to make gains if there is an election so theres no chance of that.