Problem completing house purchase

bigjohnnykeats

Hey everyone - just venting really, maybe someone has been in a similar situation, or perhaps has some oily words of slick comfort for me...

We recently agreed a price for our dream house out the country, and were looking forward to moving in! Got all our loan packs etc everything ready to go, but this week weve hit a snag!

Supposedly the current owners are having problems with the boundaries of the property - i think a small area of the land is actually Dept of Agriculture / Coillte land and so they need to sort this out with the Dept before they can give "good title" to us, the new buyers. It was an old access path to a Government forest supposedly which hasnt been used in years.

Ive a few questions if anyone has the time / intelligence / experience / inclination to attempt an auld reply...

1. How long do dealings with the Dept of Ag of this nature usually take? A long time? A very long time?

2. How could the current owners have built on land which they never technically owned? The house is built a mere five years.

3. The solicitor wants us to sign contracts "subject to resolution of land issue" Is this a good idea? Would we be left in the badness if house prices slid even further and we were left waiting 6 / 7 months?


Cheers Muchly

mrgaa1

The issue with boundaries happens quite a lot especially with older properties. It should be a quick process really to get the boundaries sorted out - keep the pressure on. In relation to signing subject to land - your own solicitor should advise you what to do. Personally I wouldn't sign until the land issue is sorted out because if you ever have to leverage the site for monies - selling it or bequeathing it etc... - then major issues. Better getting it sorted out now.

The_Conductor

From previous experience- do not automatically assume that the Department will willingly extinguish a right of way- there are some cases which are ongoing all the way back to the 1940s. There may very well be legal reasons (access etc- regardless of whether its currently used or not) why the right of way may not be legally extinguished (in a forestry context- a right of way may only be used very rarely- possibly as seldom as once or twice every 10-12 years for updating management plans).

I would be extremely cautious about proceeding with this purchase- the vendor does not have clear title to the property- you have no basis on which to proceed until such time as this has been definitively resolved. Exercise caution.

Senna

Good points above, but i wouldn't sign contracts until the mater is settled. Firstly because the vendor (or their solicitor) wont be under as much pressure to get the title if they know you have signed already. If theirs a chance you'll get fed up and walk away they'll be contacting (pushing) the DoA a lot more.

Is your solicitor advising you to sign now, if he is i'd be questioning him. Would there be a time clause, what happens if you sign and the title isn't sorted for months? What happens if your mortgage approval runs out and you cant get a mortgage in 2/4/6/12 months. Of course they will tell you it wont take long, things rarely work to schedule.

Emmo

Not only would I not sign now I would set a time for for closure of this deal.

House prices show no signs of stabalising anytime soon. Every week waiting is a week more potentially into negative equity.

The vendor has built on this land while not owning this property. It could be a case of adverse possession but this can be difficult to prove and asses and could end up going to court.

Title problems, boundary issues can be some of the most difficult conveyancing issues and its important to have a solicitor who understands them.

This is where your solicitor will earn their fees, ask them what experience they have with conveyancing and specifically boundaries.

The other tack you could try is to find out how long the land has been used without the vendor having title, asses if this represents a reasonable time for use and possession of the land and then bargain the closing price down and undertake the remedy of the boundary issue yourself but without very good legal advice and a good discount I would advise against that.

Emmo

The_Conductor

If its access rights- the Department only have to show a valid management plan for the forest- to legally keep the access rights.

John Mason

i worked in a solicitors office for years and i have seen these type of case drag on for months and sometimes years.

you will need to speak to your solicitor and see if you can get him to give you a rough indication about how long he thinks it will take to sort out.

you should then get him to write a letter to the vendors solicitors giving them a date and that if things are not finalised by that back, you will be backing out of the purchase.

as for signing the contracts now, it is up to you to decide how much you love the house and how long you are prepared to wait. if the land issue is not sorted out, you have an out with the contract but if you dont sign the contract someone else approaches the vendor with an offer and is prepared to wait until everything is sorted, you could lose the property, as you have no binding contracts in place.

you need to have a long talk with your solicitor.

Gonzales

sounds like a huge timebomb to me, I would'nt sign a thing until it's resolved.:(

This could haunt you for years to come, please do tread carefully, you dream home could end up being the bain of your life.

best of luck.

the_syco

bigjohnnykeats wrote: »

Supposedly the current owners are having problems with the boundaries of the property - i think a small area of the land is actually Dept of Agriculture / Coillte land and so they need to sort this out with the Dept before they can give "good title" to us, the new buyers. It was an old access path to a Government forest supposedly which hasnt been used in years.

Do you know where in the property the access path is? Is it to the side of the property, is it in the middle? Have they told you? If they haven't told you, I'd thread very carefully.

Caza

Hi all the op is my other half!
the guy from coilte was out according to estate agent and said that everything was fine!!!
we think that the people living in the house are dragging their heels and doing everything really slowly, we heard on grape vine that they want to be still in the house for xmas!
Any suggestions to hurry them up and get things moving?

thanks

spockety

Yes, tell them unless they close within four weeks, you are walking away. This assumes you are totally satisfied there are no issues with the land.

The_Conductor

1.5% reduction in final price per month delay in completion of purchase.
Its roughly what property is falling at, at the moment......

the_syco

Caza wrote: »

we heard on grape vine that they want to be still in the house for xmas!

Sounds plausible.

smccarrick wrote: »

1.5% reduction in final price per month delay in completion of purchase.
Its roughly what property is falling at, at the moment......

This, and also 4 weeks or you walk away, as it looks like they are all too happy to string you along.

howamidifferent

I remember a similar problem with boundarys arising for me when buying a property in 1989. That is I completed in 1989...At the time it was to be resolved "next week" and dragged on for a full 18 months... Had I known I wouldnt have waited. :mad:

bigjohnnykeats

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Sent a letter last Friday saying that if sale does not close before 1 December our price is being reduced 1.5% and if we are still waiting after Christmas we may pull out. Fingers crossed this gives 'em a gee up!

Hearing from neighbours that the guys are dragging their feet. Maybe they shall be motivated now... fingers crossed anyway...