Republic of Ireland vs. Italy - 10/10/09 **KO 8:00 PM** [mod warning post #160]

Xavi6

Bandit12 wrote: »

Amazing performance from the lads last night.

There's nothing 'amazing' about being poor at keeping the ball for 90 minutes and displaying the sort of defensive frailties that resulted in both goals.

Boskowski

Thing is no matter where you go there'll always be the usual number of armchair pundits who know better than the manager.

I'm all for playing football. And I'd like to see Andy Reid in the squad. It gives the manager options if they desperately need to make something happen being a goal down with 30 mins on the clock or so.
But he's not going to turn Ireland into Holland. There is no way that Andy Reids presence alone would turn Ireland into a team that could 'play' an opponent like Italy. No way.

I think Trappatoni has seen his fair share of teams from a managers perspective. I think he knows what a team can do and what a team can't do. He decided to play a certain style to get the best out of what he has at his disposal. Doing that he's got Ireland into the playoffs.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Reid actually returned into the squad for the playoffs. But not as a starter.

I think Ireland has played very well tonight. But we all saw what happened when Italy needed to make something happen. Took them all of 3 minutes.

That_Guy

Villain wrote: »

Andy Reid can't play in the middle of the park in a Trap team, he wouldn't suit the style, the only place I could have seen Reid playing was on the wing and Lawerence was one of best players last night and I'm not sure Reid would haven't offered much more going forward and he certianly wouldn't haven't offered as much in defending.

Talking about a player that the Manager doesn't include in the squad after such a good performance imo is a bit of a waste, I certainly want Reid in the Squad and think he would be a great option for the playoff if we need someone to come on a create something buy you can't fault Trap so far.

Oh dear. He's a playmaker and he's the type of player we need. He's a great midfielder and has worked very well to cement a first team place in the Sunderland squad. He's on form and Trap needs to see this. He's better than Andrews anyway.

Villain

Xavi6 wrote: »

There's nothing 'amazing' about being poor at keeping the ball for 90 minutes and displaying the sort of defensive frailties that resulted in both goals.

We were playing the World Champions, we are a small nation of 4m people with only a few top players in our squad and we defended well overall and scored twice.

People need to stop thinking back to Italy 90 days we don't have the players we had back in those days, we are never going to play open attacking football and beat teams of Italy's quality.

People need to get real imo, Trapattoni is playing a style of football based on what he has to work with.

Nalz

A response I heard to this last week was

Villain wrote: »

we are a small nation of 4m people

Cyprus

Villain

That_Guy wrote: »

Oh dear. He's a playmaker and he's the type of player we need. He's a great midfielder and has worked very well to cement a first team place in the Sunderland squad. He's on form and Trap needs to see this. He's better than Andrews anyway.

You see you are talking about Andrews again, read my first line Reid can't play in the middle with the type of gameplan Trapattoni uses, Reid is far more creative than Whelan, Andrews or Gibson I agree 100% but Trapattoni's system depends on 2 defensive centre midfielders and 2 creative wingers. You don't change a system to suit one player. I do strongly think he should be in the squad though as an option on the bench if needed

Xavi6

Villain wrote: »

We were playing the World Champions, we are a small nation of 4m people with only a few top players in our squad and we defended well overall and scored twice.

Playing the small nation card doesn't cut it and is a very lame excuse.

People need to stop thinking back to Italy 90 days we don't have the players we had back in those days, we are never going to play open attacking football and beat teams of Italy's quality.

Some would argue that we do have the players, they just aren't being picked.

People need to get real imo, Trapattoni is playing a style of football based on what he has to work with.

No he's not. He's playing a style of football based on the players he has chosen to work with.

There's a difference.

Villain

Trilla wrote: »

A response I heard to this last week was
Cyprus

Yes and have Cyprus made it to the Play offs???

LuckyLloyd

bayviewclose wrote: »

Re This argument pf playing players on basis of a system. Thats all fine if its working. But Traps huff and puff game will only take us so far.
The better teams can cope with McGeady and Hunt and Lawrence who in fairness are never lacking in effort.
But if that route is closed down, Reid can unlock defenses better. And there is also Fahey to considered as he has played a similar role for Pats and Birmingham.

It has gotten us further than we could have reasonably expected to travel at the outset of this group.

That_Guy

Xavi6 wrote: »

No he's not. He's playing a style of football based on the players he has chosen to work with.

There's a difference.

Surely he'd still play the same style of football regardless of what players he picks.

We do have better players at our disposal but I'm pretty sure the same system would still be applied if the likes of Steven Reid and Andy Reid were chosen to play.

Villain

Xavi6 wrote: »

Playing the small nation card doesn't cut it and is a very lame excuse.

There is a difference between an excuse and a fact

Xavi6 wrote: »

Some would argue that we do have the players, they just aren't being picked.

I can only think of one and I have discussed that above, unless there are other Irish players playing at the top level that want to play for Ireland that I don't know about

Xavi6 wrote: »

No he's not. He's playing a style of football based on the players he has chosen to work with.

There's a difference.

As I said above you don't change your system to suit 1 player, if we tried to play open attacking football the likes of Italy would have cut us apart.

Xavi6

That_Guy wrote: »

Surely he'd still play the same style of football regardless of what players he picks.

We do have better players at our disposal but I'm pretty sure the same system would still be applied if the likes of Steven Reid and Andy Reid were chosen to play.

And that in itself would be enough to allow us to at least keep hold of the ball against good sides.

We scored two goals from set pieces last night but created little else. You can't go into a big game relying on drawing fouls around the box or corners.

The result itself was good, there's no denying that, but the performance was poor.

Krusader

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It has gotten us further than we could have reasonably expected to travel at the outset of this group.

Thats true and we should stick with what we have but it would be nice to even bring A. Reid on if we need someone who can slide a ball in for Keane and Doyle.

I think Trap will bring A.Reid back into the squad for the friendlies leading to the WC,if we make it

JPA

If someone had said we would finish in a clear 2nd place when the group was drawn I'd have taken it with both hands. That is all.


And I had to turn off RTE after the match, they used to be funny or entertaining, now it's become a parody.

Nalz

Villain wrote: »

Yes and have Cyprus made it to the Play offs???

Very true, but in a game of if's and and's, If Cyprus had have got draws from the games vs Ireland (and lets be honest here, we just about did enough in those games and got very lucky at times too) how would the table look?

I know the facts are Trap got us 6 points from those games, but I shouldn't be pointing out to anyone that we rode our luck and barely scraped 6 points against Cyprus, a dodgey peno at home vs Georgia, or a deflected goal to beat Georgia away (who as it happens are the worst last team hence us being bottom bar Norway in the second place play off table).

I'm glad we are where we are, and I'm also happier than I was after last night but lets look beyond the table and green tinted glare and see exactly what we are dealing with.

gosplan

Xavi6 wrote: »

Some would argue that we do have the players, they just aren't being picked.

They??? Surely you're not going down the Carsely route.


Anyway.

I believe Reid should be in the squad but all of a sudden people are making out that Trapp's rigid style is suffocating our nation's awesome natural football abilities.

Just want to ask everyone to remember that we're talking about one WINGER, who's in great form for Sunderland. His run of good form covers the last 4 league games in which they've got a highly credible 2 wins and a draw.

BTW, I reckon Reid should deffo be in the squad but no way should he have started last night against Grosso.

LuckyLloyd

Trilla wrote: »

I'm glad we are where we are, and I'm also happier than I was after last night but lets look beyond the table and green tinted glare and see exactly what we are dealing with.

We're dealing with a squad of mostly average players (relative to the top level of the game) that play their ****ing asses off and find ways to make things happen late in games consistently. There have been recurring lucky breaks throughout the campaign, but there have also been vital late goals fashioned against Georgia and Italy at home, and against Cyprus and Italy away. On the whole, the team is running above expectation. But they give themselves the best possible platform considering their collective abilities.

Xavi6

gosplan wrote: »

They??? Surely you're not going down the Carsely route.

No not Carsley.

Looking at the squad as a whole there is no excuse for Liam Miller having a place in it. Keith Fahey is much more deserving of a place given that he is a Premier League regular.

I'm also talking about Clinton Morrison who has been in great form but can't get a sniff. He's better than Best imo and couldn't even get in the initial 27-man squad FFS.

Oliver1985

Defo was well impressed with Lawerence thought he was one the best players on the pitch!!! Going to be interesting what he will do come the play offs!!

Villain

Xavi6 wrote: »

No not Carsley.

Looking at the squad as a whole there is no excuse for Liam Miller having a place in it. Keith Fahey is much more deserving of a place given that he is a Premier League regular.

I'm also talking about Clinton Morrison who has been in great form but can't get a sniff. He's better than Best imo and couldn't even get in the initial 27-man squad FFS.

Liam Miller ??????? He couldn't even find a club until Hibernian came to his rescue, QPR released him after a few months Rowlands is playing much better, saldy for some reason unknown to me Miller for all his promise years ago hasn't got what it takes at this level

everdead.ie

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Defo was well impressed with Lawerence thought he was one the best players on the pitch!!! Going to be interesting what he will do come the play offs!!

Was at the game and Lawerence played ok nothing spectacular but should of been subbed last twenty minutes he was off the pace he didn't have anything left to track back.

P.S. O'Shea was immense absolutely brilliant last night

Oliver1985

Yeah O shea and dunne two warriors at the back!!!

Xavi6

Villain wrote: »

Liam Miller ??????? He couldn't even find a club until Hibernian came to his rescue, QPR released him after a few months Rowlands is playing much better, saldy for some reason unknown to me Miller for all his promise years ago hasn't got what it takes at this level

Read it again. I said Miller doesn't deserve a place.

Prufrock

Having made the playoffs is a great result for us. Pity we couldn't hold the lead but we're still in with a shout. Liam Miller should be nowhere near getting into the squad. Keith Fahey or Clinton Morrison would be good choices based on current form.

MrMatisse

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Defo was well impressed with Lawerence thought he was one the best players on the pitch!!! Going to be interesting what he will do come the play offs!!

I felt lawerence had a very good first 20 minutes but then gradually started to run out of steam. He looked pure knackered towards the end.

gosplan

Xavi6 wrote: »

Some would argue that we do have the players, they just aren't being picked.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Looking at the squad as a whole there is no excuse for Liam Miller having a place in it. Keith Fahey is much more deserving of a place given that he is a Premier League regular.

I'm also talking about Clinton Morrison who has been in great form but can't get a sniff. He's better than Best imo and couldn't even get in the initial 27-man squad FFS.

See, this is what I have a problem with. Yeah, there's arguments for including certain players and dropping people like Miller but the original statement was about players that we could play a more open game and take Italy on with - Fahey, Morrison - take Italy on???

The only player there should be no argument about is Andy Reid and as I said he's a reasonable winger in an attacking sense. Every other inclusion is debatable.

People on this website are either insinuating or just making the claim that if it wasn't for Trappatoni, the Irish national team would be playing a much more exciting brand of football and doing it successfully against teams like Italy.

Sorry but if that's anyone's opinion, then they don't know d1ck about football.

1967

People should get a grip on reality Trapatoni has done an excellent job with the resources at his disposal the only true world class player we have is Shay Given maybe include John O Shea for his versatility,its not like the Charlton era where we really did have a squad of World class players who could play football with the best of them but were not allowed to by Charlton, my only gripe at the moment is that i think Keith Fahey deserves a chance as regards Dunphys Messiah, Andy Reid i would have him in the squad but not my first eleven he is not good enough and he was not good enough at spurs forest charlton and besides his last couple of games sunderland also in this day and age with players fitness levels to be able to lose a stone or more is an indictment of his professionalism.

The_Kew_Tour

First of all just want say how proud I was of the performance last night we gave it all and thats all ya can ask for.

I will never forget our second goal for the rest of my life

I have never shared moment with so many people. Huging anybody within three rows of me young and old.. Croker actaully shook. Who say Croker does not generate atmosphere. Pity we could not hang on, really was our would been some night.

I taught Lawarence and O shea were excellent. Im not huge Mcgeady fan but taught he gave Italians a nightmare also. Doyle was snuffed out big time I felt. Was surprised to see Trap making 3 changes very unlike him.

Overall im gutted i have say. Proud but Jesus you just have wonder what we deserved to have Italians score against us in last minute.

Xavi6

gosplan wrote: »

See, this is what I have a problem with. Yeah, there's arguments for including certain players and dropping people like Miller but the original statement was about players that we could play a more open game and take Italy on with - Fahey, Morrison - take Italy on???

If Leon Best is seen as a good enough option to come on and face Italy then Clinton Morrison definitely is.

Xavi6

adrian280582 wrote: »

Proud but Jesus you just have wonder what we deserved to have Italians score against us in last minute.

We piled forward and didn't defend the lead in the required fashion.

Reap what you sow.

ShooterSF

On the Andy Reid issue. Yes he should be in the squad but whether he'd fit into Trap's 11 is debatable. More importantly though if you asked me to choose who I want involved with the Irish setup between trap and reid it would be Trap everytime. So if they can' get on it should be dropped.

Peyton Manning

adrian280582 wrote: »

Overall im gutted i have say. Proud but Jesus you just have wonder what we deserved to have Italians score against us in last minute.

Its because we have a mindset that would encourage 20 people to thank this post:

CHD wrote: »

DON'T SIT BACK DON'T SIT BACK DON'T SIT BACK DON'T SIT BACK DON'T SIT BACK DON'T SIT BACK

Sometimes people forget that we're not Brazil or Spain.

Rondolfus

ShooterSF wrote: »

More importantly though if you asked me to choose who I want involved with the Irish setup between trap and reid it would be Trap everytime.

Exactly

gosplan

Xavi6 wrote: »

If Leon Best is seen as a good enough option to come on and face Italy then Clinton Morrison definitely is.

Definitely, I reckon he'd play the Riquelme role to perfection as well, slot in behind the strikers and cut Italy apart.

Then we'd see how stupid all this defensive-minded manager's bone headed decisions have been.

I mean, He's killing the Irish tradition of total football.

The_Kew_Tour

Archimedes wrote: »

Its because we have a mindset that would encourage 20 people to thank this post:



Sometimes people forget that we're not Brazil or Spain.

I think nobody in here actually honestly belives we going win world cup lets be frank about that.

but when your 2 minutes away from beating the world champions you do think maybe it is your day..but not this time

That_Guy

gosplan wrote: »

Definitely, I reckon he'd play the Riquelme role to perfection as well, slot in behind the strikers and cut Italy apart.

Then we'd see how stupid all this defensive-minded manager's bone headed decisions have been.

I mean, He's killing the Irish tradition of total football.

Well we're unbeaten in our qualifying matches thus far which is a good achievement if you ask me.

His player selections have been questionable yes but he has gotten the best out of the players he has chosen.

Considering our team is made up of mostly Championship players we have done very well in this qualifying campaign.

IrishIrish

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic there. I think the last line could have been a give away

manutd

Well said, when the draw happen Italy and Bulgaria were in everyones eyes to get 1st and 2nd place. Bulgaria i think though they would have got 2nd easily. Ireland did well with the players and withount Ireland himself.

Xavi6

gosplan wrote: »

Definitely, I reckon he'd play the Riquelme role to perfection as well, slot in behind the strikers and cut Italy apart.

Then we'd see how stupid all this defensive-minded manager's bone headed decisions have been.

I mean, He's killing the Irish tradition of total football.

If you enjoy watching the sort of football served up last night and throughout the campaign then good on ya.

Peyton Manning

Xavi6 wrote: »

If you enjoy watching the sort of football served up last night and throughout the campaign then good on ya.

Those Greeks sure looked like they had a good time back in 2004

noodler

That_Guy wrote: »

Considering our team is made up of mostly Championship players we have done very well in this qualifying campaign.

You were joking here, right?


If one more person goes on about our limited players and 'poor Trap' - he is doing the best with what he has then I will just scream.

Trap's nonnegotiable setup (no matter who we are playing) is self-inflicted.

Ditto if I hear one more retarded "You'd swear Andy Reid was Zidane" comment.....it is all relative ffs. He just happens to be the best passer the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND has, not France, not Brazil and hence his relative importance to us is the issue, not his standing in world football.

herbieflowers

Tbh it was George Hamilton who jinxed it. He kept on prattling on after St Ledger had scored about Giants stadium, USA 94, the heroics of Ireland, etc. - his waxing lyrical brought to an abrupt end by Gilardino's goal. Danger here.

I think I was the only one to back Glen @ 25-1 with a score on it. Took a photo of the docket for bragging rights haha . Some night

~Rebel~

Seriously, what the fck were we doing committing so many men forward after we already had the lead with just a few minutes to play?! Like, I dont think we should have been inviting them onto us or anything, but at least have the majority of our players in our half!

Liam O

Trap needs to expand his view of Irish players in England imo. I mean if that McCann bloke and James McCarthy can't even get a look in for friendlies and Martin Rowlands (I mean, who the f*ck?) can get into actual competitive games then there is something wrong imo. Trap found his group of players when he started and hasn't bothered with anyone else. Does he even go watch the players on a regular basis? Sky show Capello/other international managers all the time and I don't think I've ever seen him at a game...

Krusader

Liam O wrote: »

Trap needs to expand his view of Irish players in England imo. I mean if that McCann bloke and James McCarthy can't even get a look in for friendlies and Martin Rowlands (I mean, who the f*ck?) can get into actual competitive games then there is something wrong imo. Trap found his group of players when he started and hasn't bothered with anyone else. Does he even go watch the players on a regular basis? Sky show Capello/other international managers all the time and I don't think I've ever seen him at a game...

Yeah you're right in your opinion.Capello moved to London when receiving the England job, Trap should of done the same

~Rebel~

Liam O wrote: »

Trap needs to expand his view of Irish players in England imo. I mean if that McCann bloke and James McCarthy can't even get a look in for friendlies and Martin Rowlands (I mean, who the f*ck?) can get into actual competitive games then there is something wrong imo. Trap found his group of players when he started and hasn't bothered with anyone else. Does he even go watch the players on a regular basis? Sky show Capello/other international managers all the time and I don't think I've ever seen him at a game...

Now, I don't agree with trap's squad selections, but it doesn't make much sense to give out about him not bringing in players other then the ones he started with, and at the same time give out about him bringing in an unknown. The fact he brought in Rowlands would point that he has actually been doing research into all the available players and saw attributes there that matched his system better then some of the bigger names.

I rarely see Sky show managers of other countries, dont think i've ever seen Aragones shown at a liverpool match for instance, though im sure he would have been at a few last year considering he had 5 players in his squad. They show Capello every chance they get, but other then that id say its fairly hit and miss. Also, i would say theres a better chance it would be tardelli and Brady who would be headin to games

Liam O

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Now, I don't agree with trap's squad selections, but it doesn't make much sense to give out about him not bringing in players other then the ones he started with, and at the same time give out about him bringing in an unknown. The fact he brought in Rowlands would point that he has actually been doing research into all the available players and saw attributes there that matched his system better then some of the bigger names.

I rarely see Sky show managers of other countries, dont think i've ever seen Aragones shown at a liverpool match for instance, though im sure he would have been at a few last year considering he had 5 players in his squad. They show Capello every chance they get, but other then that id say its fairly hit and miss. Also, i would say theres a better chance it would be tardelli and Brady who would be headin to games

fair enough, but the fact that the good young players aren't getting a chance to prove themselves and Rowlands who is 30 years old gets a shot is stupid imo. I mean look at James McCarthy, he picked Ireland over Scotland and I reckon he'd probably be at least in their squad even though they do have much better midfielders than us. We need players who play in the PL at least some of the time and have shown they can can play to the level required which you just don't get in the Championship imo.

briany

Must say the 2-1 lead was good while it lasted. Did you see the camera's picture shaking after Ireland's goal? Jeez it was like an earthquake going off or something! The atmosphere looked mighty.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Perhaps anyone who doesn't think Andy Reid should be in the squad should have a look at this season's Premier League assist charts.