Republic of Ireland vs. Italy - 10/10/09 KO 8:00 PM [mod warning post #160]

BolBill · 10-10-2009 6:44pm

Bulgaria just scored.

johnp · 10-10-2009 6:45pm

2-1. Berbatov

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-10-2009 6:48pm

Archimedes wrote: »

Right, but when you consider that this is football an not some sh!te game show hosted by Noel Edmonds, that kind of debunks your theory.

Nobody expected a draw in Bari, but we got it. Bottom line is, much like American Football, any given Saturday.....

It was an analogy. Sorry it went over your head. We got the draw in Bari thanks to playing against 10 men (which was a huge slice of fortune).

If the Italians want to murder us they will. It all depends on their motivation.

noodler wrote:

If we can't even show some ambition in a situation like this then what is the point of the game?

Honestly, no offense but I think that is absolutely absurd.

Well no offence but what you call ambition I call being naive.

In the 1990 World Cup Irish and Dutch players came to a gentleman's agreement on the pitch to settle for the draw as it suited both sides. This has been comfirmed by Irish players.

Was that showing a lack of ambition or rather showing common sense? I say the latter.

noodler · 10-10-2009 6:56pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If the Italians want to murder us they will. It all depends on their motivation.

Well no offence but what you call ambition I call being naive.

In the 1990 World Cup Irish and Dutch players came to a gentleman's agreement on the pitch to settle for the draw as it suited both sides. This has been comfirmed by Irish players.

Was that showing a lack of ambition or rather showing common sense? I say the latter.

Eh? Yeah okay...irrelevant to what we are talking about though. Don't see where naive comes into it either?

Two completely different situations if the Play-Off spot is assured (as I stipulated) by the time we start our game with Italy.

IrishIrish · 10-10-2009 7:00pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't think it's madness. If the Italians are willing to settle for a draw then why rock the boat and end up on the end of a thrashing? People seem to forget how absolutely atrocious we were in Cyprus and that we have a central midifeld of Whelan and Andrews going up against the likes of Pirlo and De Rossi.

If the Italians want to comfortably beat us then they will. Simple as. If they are willing to 'phone it in' then I'd say it would be madness to antagonise them.

It's like in Deal or No Deal. Sometimes it's tempting to go on and try and get the big money but likewise sometimes it's best just to take the deal on offer rather than go home with little to nothing.

Up there with the worst things I have ever read on boards, and you can imagine some of the **** that is on boards!

Peyton Manning · 10-10-2009 7:03pm

Also, anyone who boos Gattuso tonight is a f*cking knob.

noodler · 10-10-2009 7:03pm

IrishIrish wrote: »

Up there with the worst things I have ever read on boards, and you can imagine some of the **** that is on boards!

I know, as if football is that easy.

noodler · 10-10-2009 7:04pm

Archimedes wrote: »

Also, anyone who boos Gattuso tonight is a f*cking knob.

If he acts the knob then let the booing commence!

Nothing to do with the Rangers thing!

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-10-2009 7:07pm

noodler wrote: »

Eh? Yeah okay...irrelevant to what we are talking about though. Don't see where naive comes into it either?

Two completely different situations if the Play-Off spot is assured (as I stipulated) by the time we start our game with Italy.

I just think the idea that the extremely limited players we have, particular in the centre of the park, can go out there and beat the Italian team is highly fanciful stuff.

If a 'gentleman's agreement' was to be offered to us in the form of a draw then I think it would be crazy to turn it down.

IrishIrish wrote:

Up there with the worst things I have ever read on boards, and you can imagine some of the **** that is on boards!

Explain to me why you think so.

I've watched our performances. We we were awful during the last game and the central midfield pairing is the worst I've seen in my time as a fan.

This is not a team anywhere near on a par with the one which upset the Dutch in 2001.

noodler · 10-10-2009 7:10pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I just think the idea that the extremely limited players we have, particular in the centre of the park, can go out there and beat the Italian team is highly fanciful stuff.

If a 'gentleman's agreement' was to be offered to us in the form of a draw then I think it would be crazy to turn it down.

Explain to me why you think so.

I've watched our performances. We we were awful during the last game and the central midfield pairing is the worst I've seen in my time as a fan.

This is not a team anywhere near on a par with the one which upset the Dutch in 2001.

If Bulgaria don't win, then why on earth wouldn't we go for it?

Anything can happen in football on any given day. Us winning may not be the statistical likelihood but fanciful? At home?

I wouldn't say that at all and if we have nothing to lose then go for it (I am not saying go gung ho but I am saying attack with urgency).

IrishIrish · 10-10-2009 7:12pm

Doesn't matter how good a team is or how bad the team they are playing are. Its not as easy as just showing up and deciding they want to win :rolleyes: Why are there so many upsets in football? The big teams just weren't bothered winning that day?

I also dont think Italy are anywhere near as good as you seem to think or Ireland are anywhere near as bad.

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-10-2009 7:17pm

Upsets happen all the time do they? That's funny because I can't recall us causing one since we beat the Dutch 8 YEARS AGO.

Why on earth wouldn't we go for it? Are people so deluded that they think this very modest Irish team is anywhere near as good as the current champions of the world? If we get a draw out of this we can consider ourselves extremely fortunate.

The game away to Cyprus was one of the worst Irish performances I've seen in recent times and yet some people think we can go out and mop the floor with the Italian team. Can't believe it tbh.

joe123 · 10-10-2009 7:24pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Upsets happen all the time do they? That's funny because I can't recall us causing one since we beat the Dutch 8 YEARS AGO.

Why on earth wouldn't we go for it? Are people so deluded that they think this very modest Irish team is anywhere near as good as the current champions of the world? If we get a draw out of this we can consider ourselves extremely fortunate.

The game away to Cyprus was one of the worst Irish performances I've seen in recent times and yet some people think we can go out and mop the floor with the Italian team. Can't believe it tbh.

No they dont happen all the time but they do happen. And we should go for it. Anything can happen in 90 minutes of football.

I really hope the crowd there get behind the team.

Greeze are playing Latvia. If Latvia beat Greece that could improve our chances of seeding for the playoffs.

Cyprus 3 - 1 Bulgaria (L)

parker kent · 10-10-2009 7:24pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Upsets happen all the time do they? That's funny because I can't recall us causing one since we beat the Dutch 8 YEARS AGO.

Why on earth wouldn't we go for it? Are people so deluded that they think this very modest Irish team is anywhere near as good as the current champions of the world? If we get a draw out of this we can consider ourselves extremely fortunate.

The game away to Cyprus was one of the worst Irish performances I've seen in recent times and yet some people think we can go out and mop the floor with the Italian team. Can't believe it tbh.

But as I speak now, Bulgaria are 3-1 down, why on earth would we NOT go for it? Did you see Italy at the Confederations Cup? They are not the team they were in 2006. It is a game of football, anything can happen. Ask Argentina after playing Cameroon at Italia 90 or France after playing Senegal in 2002. Ireland may not have pulled off a big win against a top team in qualifying since 2001, but shocks happen all the time in football. Should Burnley have not even tried against Man United? Should they have tried to keep the score down to save face? No of course not. They went for it and they beat the champions of England as a result. Ireland should play the game on its merits, keep it tight but still go for the win if it is there for us.

Sherifu · 10-10-2009 7:25pm

parker kent wrote: »

But as I speak now, Bulgaria are 3-1 down, why on earth would we NOT go for it? Did you see Italy at the Confederations Cup? They are not the team they were in 2006. It is a game of football, anything can happen. Ask Argentina after playing Cameroon at Italia 90 or France after playing Senegal in 2002. Ireland may not have pulled off a big win against a top team in qualifying since 2001, but shocks happen all the time in football. Should Burnley have not even tried against Man United? Should they have tried to keep the score down to save face? No of course not. They went for it and they beat the champions of England as a result. Ireland should play the game on its merits, keep it tight but still go for the win if it is there for us.

Exactly. Come on Ireland, top the group!

IrishIrish · 10-10-2009 7:26pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Upsets happen all the time do they? That's funny because I can't recall us causing one since we beat the Dutch 8 YEARS AGO.

Why on earth wouldn't we go for it? Are people so deluded that they think this very modest Irish team is anywhere near as good as the current champions of the world? If we get a draw out of this we can consider ourselves extremely fortunate.

The game away to Cyprus was one of the worst Irish performances I've seen in recent times and yet some people think we can go out and mop the floor with the Italian team. Can't believe it tbh.

So upsets in football can only be caused when Ireland do them

Are you so deluded that you think this italian team are good enough to be current world champions?

No body has said anywhere that Ireland will mop the floor with Italy.

IrishIrish · 10-10-2009 7:35pm

4-1 Cyprus now

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-10-2009 7:40pm

IrishIrish wrote: »

So upsets in football can only be caused when Ireland do them

Are you so deluded that you think this italian team are good enough to be current world champions?

No body has said anywhere that Ireland will mop the floor with Italy.

We are talking about Ireland and as I've said we haven't caused an upset since a World Cup Campaign in 2001. It is fantasy stuff in my view - to ignore the terrible performances we have dished out in the campaign. Whether or not Italy are good enough to be current world champions doesn't interest me. What concerns me is that they are and that they swept Bulgaria aside comfortably in their last game (which we couldn't). Yes this is an Italian team which has clearly underperformed but this is also an Ireland team that got hammered 3-0 on home soil by Australia and which had to use hoof ball tactics to nick a fortunate win in the last game.

Seems to me some people are happy to focus on Italy's bad performances and yet completely overlook our own! Does anyone think we go into this match with the better form? Give over.

The Italian team has better players than us. The performances of the Irish team in the group have been dire. So then what's so "mad" about me being happy to accept a draw under those circumstances?

Some of you may regard it as defeatist but I regard it as being realistic. I'd rather have the point in the bag then go gung-ho against a footballing giant and end up with yet another bloody "gallant, brave loss".

I truly hope we beat Italy tonight but knowing how difficult we tend to make qualifying, if the draw is offered personally I would snap that offer up. Whatever happens, c'mon Ireland!

ShooterSF · 10-10-2009 7:41pm

Mr. Nice Guy.

Yes going for a win could see us on the end of an ass kicking but we'd have some chance even if it's a tiny chance.
It's a risk/reward situation. If we get bet we will still only need a draw against Montenegro but if we win we have a slim chance of topping the group and topping the group is a huge reward giving the seeding of the play-offs.

noodler · 10-10-2009 7:42pm

Sure why bother getting up in the morning eh Mr Nice Guy?

IrishIrish · 10-10-2009 7:43pm

I'd rather lose trying to get a win then draw or end up losing playing defensive all nite. There's nothing to lose since we are now gaurenteed a play off place. I just don't see why your so concerned with not losing when it makes little difference whethere its a draw or a loss.

Hank Scorpio · 10-10-2009 7:56pm

IrishIrish wrote: »

I'd rather lose trying to get a win then draw or end up losing playing defensive all nite. There's nothing to lose since we are now gaurenteed a play off place. I just don't see why your so concerned with not losing when it makes little difference whethere its a draw or a loss.

Were not, we still need a point to be certain