Fine Gael....Spineless.

P. Breathnach

flanzer wrote: »

Yep Enda Kenny is spineless and again proved he wouldn't be a worthy leader of this country. But why didn't he call for JOD's resignation? This story is gonna get legs. Expect Kenny's expense account to come under scrutiny I feel! They all at it in there

I think it's much simpler than that: Kenny failed to recognise that the right moment had arrived, whereas Gilmore did.

Nodin

I'm still trying to figure out why Gilmores remark was "suprising". I would have presumed that they'd all be calling for yer man to go. Goverment drops the ball - opposition attacks, and in this case with good detailed reason.

As for O'Donogue being treated unfairly - that could only be argued along the lines of others having done worse and gotten away with it (which I'd have no problems believing), which isn't much of an argument at all.

Aidric

nkay1985 wrote: »

As for Kenny not calling for his resignation, I would expect no less from him. If he manages to become the leader of this country, it'll be a sad day for all of us.

I honestly despair at the thought of this man as leader of our country. As it stands I think he is damaging the chances of the party at the next general election.

Biggins

Aidric wrote: »

I honestly despair at the thought of this man as leader of our country. As it stands I think he is damaging the chances of the party at the next general election.

Same here but regardless, he will hang on in there till the next GE and (for all intensive purposes) arise to the leadership of the country.

After that I expect more of the same old, same old tripe...
I despair!

murfie

murphaph wrote: »

People will avoid voting FG so long as Enda Kenny is their leader.

I disagree, people vote locally. So they vote for the candidate that they believe will deliver on local issues. Enda is not the strongest granted, but he has a good team that in reality are the only alternative to the shower that are in power right now.

Biggins wrote: »

After that I expect more of the same old, same old tripe...
I despair!

I despair at the thought of a Labour run government, as i said above FG are a hell of a lot better then FF in power.

We do not vote on the leader of a party, we vote for our local TD and their party policies. FG are the only choice in my eyes rather then a socialist nightmare the Labour will be.

markesmith

Labour in government would be a good alternative, even if only for four years. These two Christian-Democratic parties are just two sides of the same coin. Is there really any difference between their policies?

Gilmore's got my vote.

murphaph

markesmith wrote: »

Labour in government would be a good alternative, even if only for four years. These two Christian-Democratic parties are just two sides of the same coin. Is there really any difference between their policies?

Gilmore's got my vote.

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

murfie

Also in fairness the onus was on Labour to withdraw their support for JOD, they with FF and the Greens agreed on JOD for the position of Ceann Comhairle. FG never supported him in that position.

Biggins

LOL I can see possible electioneering starting already!

Dannyboy83

murphaph wrote: »

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

Which is precisely why FG have still got my vote until a credible alternative show up.

Gilmore has explicitly stated that the PS wages DO NOT need to be cut.
While its admirable to look for new solutions, it is also the road to ruin if you don't make the decision that have to be made.

And as P.Breathnach said, I doubt there was any conspiracy or real cowardice, more simply Gilmore had copped when the time was right.

walshb

Enda had his chance and failed miserably. He truly dropped the ball here

Biggins

walshb wrote: »

Enda had his chance and failed miserably. He truly dropped the ball here

True, while he was humming and hawing, hesitating, Gilmore pulled a quick PR goal.
Like him or not - he jumped when others wouldn't vocally.

Pride Fighter

murphaph wrote: »

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

genericguy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

a veritable robin hood he was.

wylo

I cant believe people are calling FG spineless, there is only one reason FG backed off on this one , and its because of what another poster said , they all have dirt on each other.
We all know well that they all take this piss out of the expenses and thats why no one wants to be in the spotlight , cause they know they'll be hit next, its just not worth it.
I would absolutely love it if JoD came out and said theyre all at it, of course he wont , but it would be absolutely golden if he did.

I hope to god the press start to dig for dirt for all the clowns up in the Dail as a result of this, then we'll see who has been honest.

Fair play to Gilmore, someone had to say it, and FG proved themselves as dodgy as the rest by not pushing it straight away.

Its like I said in another post, it goes all the way down to the likes of a bunch councillors going on junkets in the one car, getting their own petrol expense,signing in, fvcking off home straight away without attending the meeting and then getting paid for being in a hotel.

irish_bob

murfie wrote: »

I disagree, people vote locally. So they vote for the candidate that they believe will deliver on local issues. Enda is not the strongest granted, but he has a good team that in reality are the only alternative to the shower that are in power right now.



I despair at the thought of a Labour run government, as i said above FG are a hell of a lot better then FF in power.

We do not vote on the leader of a party, we vote for our local TD and their party policies. FG are the only choice in my eyes rather then a socialist nightmare the Labour will be.

you are wrong , people mainly identify a party by their leader , when people think of enda kenny , they immedietly think less of fine gael , ive said it a million times before , kenny is what causes the swing voter to think twice

turgon

partyguinness wrote: »

How do you figure that one?

Simply actually, once one removes oneself from the dogma of antiKennyism.

Irish Public debt = huge.
Cost per year of Public sector pay bill = 20 billion
Cost per year of social welfare = 21 billion
Rough percentage of government spending allocated to welfare and public sector pay bill - 67%
How are we going to reduce out debt? Cut wage bill and welfar.

Labour are effectively a front for the Unions whos main aims are preservation of jobs and welfare. They are not going to change this.
Sinn Fein are even more hard core than Labour. They are not going to change this.

Which leaves us with .... Fine Gael.

The 'least worst' choice. Simple really. Any rational argument to that?

Biggins wrote: »

LOL I have a sneaking suspicion there is a plug in there for them!

Oh yes. I realize the absolute **** creek this country is up (as do you), and I see only one party with the slight chance of changing that, and thats me plugging them. Right.

irish_bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

ruari quinn is generally accepted as being on the right wing of labour if their is indeed such a thing , labour under gilmore have moved sharply to the left since rabbite stepped down and he was more left wing than quinn

turgon

irish_bob wrote: »

kenny is what causes the swing voter to think twice

Indeed. Whilst the oratorical abilities of any leader make no difference as to whether I vote for that Party (I base my vote on policy and what theyre actually going to do not say) the average voter is looking for confidence in a Leader. Kenny doesnt deliver.

Biggins

turgon wrote: »

Oh yes. I realize the absolute **** creek this country is up (as do you), and I see only one party with the slight chance of changing that, and thats me plugging them. Right.

...and your entitled to think that way till Sinn Fein takes over!

Dannyboy83

Biggins wrote: »

...and your entitled to think that way till Sinn Fein takes over!

Lord God, if Sinn Fein ever took over, I'd be on the first place out of here.

The only fate worse than this government remaining in power would be Sinn Fein coming to power.

P. Breathnach

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Lord God, if Sinn Fein ever took over, I'd be on the first place out of here.

I'll be in the seat beside yours.

The only fate worse than this government remaining in power would be Sinn Fein coming to power.

Other frightening prospects:
Libertas, Cóir, The Socialist Party, or People Before Profit coming to power. Or the as-yet-unnamed new party whose only policy is to be unhappy about how things are.

Biggins

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Lord God, if Sinn Fein ever took over, I'd be on the first place out of here.

Me too! I'd scrap you for the seat!

Mr.Micro

Kenny is ineffective as an opposition leader IMO. He appears to enjoy being party leader of FG without having to be nasty to FF or the Green, like its all a gentlemans club, don't rock the boat. He has to get real or ship out, or maybe he does not want to be in Government as perhaps the troubles of the country are too much to sort out? Its not an enviable job after all but he should step aside now before a general election if he does not have the stomach for it. IMO he comes across as too light weight and reluctant. If he had been a more effective leader of the opposition perhaps FF would not have been allowed to get away with so much to date?

wylo

I would imagine FG want to wait till after the budget before getting into power. There is absolutely nothing they will be able to do in this budget that will keep everyone happy. So it wouldnt be politically advantageous for them right now.

irish_bob

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Kenny is ineffective as an opposition leader IMO. He appears to enjoy being party leader of FG without having to be nasty to FF or the Green, like its all a gentlemans club, don't rock the boat. He has to get real or ship out, or maybe he does not want to be in Government as perhaps the troubles of the country are too much to sort out? Its not an enviable job after all but he should step aside now before a general election if he does not have the stomach for it. IMO he comes across as too light weight and reluctant. If he had been a more effective leader of the opposition perhaps FF would not have been allowed to get away with so much to date?

the conservatives in the uk are way ahead of labour right now and labour have not been anything like as bad over there as fianna fail have here , fine gael should be on 45% at the moment such are the unprecedented times we live in and such is the unprecedented fall in support for fianna fail , anything other than an overall majority should be unthinkable for fine gael , you have to remember that fine gael are the only party apart from fianna fail who have a national structure , outside the urban areas , labour have no real presence and therefore should not be in any possition to wield such power or gain such votes , fine gael need to think big , never have they had such an open goal in front of them , the entire private sector vote is up for grabs if they just get off the fence and declare war on the unions and on waste , we are heading for a winter of discontent , where is our thatcher

grenache

I'm a FG supporter, but not for the first time, i'm digusted by Enda Kenny's lack of decisiveness on the JOD waste scandal. I said two weeks ago when the original details of his wastage of tax payers money appeared, that FG should insist he step down. Kenny had his chance and instead of taking the iniative and putting O'Donoghue on the backfoot, he hums and haws and delays and Gilmore once again shows him up for what he is - imcompetent and spineless. FG can't even make a good job of opposition, what hope have they in government?

This country is truly fcuked. Whoever is in power.

lostexpectation

i keep saying enda kenny is too comfortable with the system, thats really why people don't like him, heck i bet bertie promised to shake politics up, enda kenny doesn't

vinylbomb

markesmith wrote: »

Labour in government would be a good alternative, even if only for four years. These two Christian-Democratic parties are just two sides of the same coin. Is there really any difference between their policies?

Gilmore's got my vote.

Well, I'm a Labour voter thats jumped ship*. Their policy currently (as posted ad nauseum) is to tax the bejesus out of the private sector**, and keep public service spending chugging along.
This approach normally appeals to my lefty-leaning views, but any fool can see that is a totally insane way of dealing with the situation.

irish_bob wrote: »

you are wrong , people mainly identify a party by their leader , when people think of enda kenny , they immedietly think less of fine gael , ive said it a million times before , kenny is what causes the swing voter to think twice

I'd be inclined to disagree with this, I think you've bestowing a bit too much sophistication on the electorate as a whole.
I believe Irish people vote on one of two things
a) Historical support: People are influenced by friends and family, and these trends tend to be adhered to strongly
b) The Anti-vote: "I'll vote for anybody but X" or "Anyone as far opposite to X as possible"

Because of (b) FF will be slaughtered in the next election, but where their voters will go is absolutely anyone's guess, with some adherence to (a) - where a party picks up some supporters (the most politically active person in a family) they could get a cluster of voters in one go.

I fear that Sinn Fein may do well out of this, as they are ideologically opposed to FF and FG.

If they do come to power, lads, you can add me to that scrap for the seats on the plane




*Jumped ship to FG

**I work in the private sector

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

...and your entitled to think that way till Sinn Fein takes over!

Our day will Tiocfaidh.

O, and put on the kettle before yez go.