False DOB's in the RDF

Pleo

We all know the large extent that false DOB's exist in the RDF, a conservative estimate would say that up to 50 - 70% of RDF members join underage, not so much (if not at all ) in recent years though. Will this skeleton in the closet ever come to the publics attention given the FOI act. Is the RDF's going to get bitten in the ass while they are sleeping on this matter, like John O' Donoghue.

Poccington

I'm going to have to ask you to provide some actual proof to back up your statement or this thread goes bye bye.

"We all know" doesn't quite cut it.

minidazzler

Poccington wrote: »

I'm going to have to ask you to provide some actual proof to back up your statement or this thread goes bye bye.

"We all know" doesn't quite cut it.

It is true, My former CO got an extra 4 years in the RDF because he joined the FCA when he was 13 but said he was 17. It was quite a common Practice but the only proof you will really get is anecdotal.

Most of my unit's senior members joined underage. Birth Cert's weren't needed and there was no Garda Clearance as such, just a letter sent to the local station saying "Is he a good boy?" Kinda thing.

I don't think it will bite the RDF on the ass at all because it's so old noone will care. It doesn't happen anymore.

I do remember a story that was probably a joke though about Ireland being on the UN's Boy Soldier watchlist because of the FCÁ! But it was probably just a joke.

Hard Larry

minidazzler wrote: »

It is true, My former CO got an extra 4 years in the RDF because he joined the FCA when he was 13 but said he was 17. It was quite a common Practice but the only proof you will really get is anecdotal.

Most of my unit's senior members joined underage. Birth Cert's weren't needed and there was no Garda Clearance as such, just a letter sent to the local station saying "Is he a good boy?" Kinda thing.

I don't think it will bite the RDF on the ass at all because it's so old noone will care. It doesn't happen anymore.

I do remember a story that was probably a joke though about Ireland being on the UN's Boy Soldier watchlist because of the FCÁ! But it was probably just a joke.

Ireland was on Amnesty International watchlist because we recruited troops aged 17 with their parents consent. Was changed recently

Pleo

Proof below

Saw Doctors song Lyrics
When I signed on
I was sixteen
Had to lie about my age
Had me hair cut short already
At the time 'twas all the rage
I heard so many stories
About the crack in Mullingar
And the glen ablow in Wicklow
Keepin watch under the stars

I was bored, broke, oblivious
So I joined the F.C.A.

I got fitted for the uniform
One sunny summers night
The trousers never fitted
And the beret was'nt right
But the boots were strong and powerful
I still have them to this day
Though the shine is long deserted
They still keep out the rain

I was bored, broke, oblivious
So I joined the F.C.A.

The tightest trousers
Come from Tuam
In Milltown they have
No ballroom
Oh I was so drunk and
disorderly
I don't know what I did
But I have the strangest
feeling
I owe Tom Wholihan 25 quid

I was bored, broke, oblivious
So I joined the F.C.A.

The night before we left
I met my favourite girl uptown
I felt like I was leaving
For some war on foreign ground
We promised love, kissed goodbye
Like we never did before
For the cause of Mother Ireland
She could'nt have dunmore

see page 4 of the link below
http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/newsletters/RDFRA_Newsletter_Summer_07.pdf

I personally have joined the RDF years ago and I am 22. I can name 10-15 of my classmates who joined underage also.

testicle

minidazzler wrote: »

It is true, My former CO got an extra 4 years in the RDF because he joined the FCA when he was 13 but said he was 17.

Unless you are in a Corps unit that isn't the Artillery, he wasn't your CO.

minidazzler

testicle wrote: »

Unless you are in a Corps unit that isn't the Artillery, he wasn't your CO.

AFAIK he was. Or at least that's how the story goes.

Initials RG.

Zambia

The fact that there are people in the RDF or PDF that have incorrect DOB's on their personnel sheets, from a security clearance piont of view alone is quite frankly mind boggling.

cushtac

Pleo wrote: »

I personally have joined the RDF years ago and I am 22. I can name 10-15 of my classmates who joined underage also.

All you have there is anecdote, there's nothing to suggest that this is or was as common in other units. No one in my recruit platoon was underage.

Zambia232 wrote: »

The fact that there are people in the RDF or PDF that have incorrect DOB's on their personnel sheets, from a security clearance piont of view alone is quite frankly mind boggling.

Giving a false DOB is not going to get anyone a security clearance they're not entitled to.

pmg58

minidazzler wrote: »

AFAIK he was. Or at least that's how the story goes.

Initials RG.

I think Testicle means that he was your O/C, not your CO.

minidazzler

pmg58 wrote: »

I think Testicle means that he was your O/C, not your CO.

Ah yes damn my lack of sleep and pedants catching me on it!!!! (It's Karma I tells ya!!!)

Zambia

cushtac wrote: »

Giving a false DOB is not going to get anyone a security clearance they're not entitled to.

In the western world your primary means of identification is your name and your DO if you can get into the military in Ireland by lying about one then its pretty shocking.

minidazzler

Zambia232 wrote: »

In the western world your primary means of identification is your name and your DO if you can get into the military in Ireland by lying about one then its pretty shocking.

You can't get into the Military by lying about it, these days. But in the past it was quite easy.

cushtac

Zambia232 wrote: »

In the western world your primary means of identification is your name and your DO if you can get into the military in Ireland by lying about one then its pretty shocking.

You didn't get in by lying, you got in despite it. Security clearance is done on several levels, merely lying about your DOB isn't going to get you through it.

Thanks for the patronisation by the way, it was really helpful.

Poccington

You can't get into the RDF with a false DOB, you use your birth cert as proof.

It certainly doesn't happen in the PDF.

Quoting a song from the Saw Doctors about the good old days of being on the piss in the FCA, isn't proof of people enlisting in the RDF these days using a false DOB.

Like I said, proof it's happening in the RDF or this thread is gone.

minidazzler

Pleo wrote: »

We all know the large extent that false DOB's exist in the RDF, a conservative estimate would say that up to 50 - 70% of RDF members joined underage, not so much (if not at all ) in recent years though. Will this skeleton in the closet ever come to the publics attention given the FOI act. Is the RDF's going to get bitten in the ass while they are sleeping on this matter, like John O' Donoghue.

Fixed that.

Poccington wrote: »

You can't get into the RDF with a false DOB, you use your birth cert as proof.

It certainly doesn't happen in the PDF.

Quoting a song from the Saw Doctors about the good old days of being on the piss in the FCA, isn't proof of people enlisting in the RDF these days using a false DOB.

Like I said, proof it's happening in the RDF or this thread is gone.

With respect Pocc, he did say it was lads from the old days, just not very eloquently. That is what this thread is about. Will the fact that members in the PAST joined underage. He was asking is the current RDF gonna get backlash for this.

I think they won't. It's quite common knowledge that in the past the FCÁ was very lenient with recruiting procedures, especially if you knew someone in there. It was into the back of a truck, into a Barracks sign on, get uniform and your now a FCA man. Here's some cheap booze.

It DOES NOT happen these days. You can complete the forms and all other paperwork and medicals when you are 16, but the security clearance will not be sent off until you are 17.

Zambia

cushtac wrote: »

You didn't get in by lying, you got in despite it. Security clearance is done on several levels, merely lying about your DOB isn't going to get you through it.

Thanks for the patronisation by the way, it was really helpful.

Apologies patronisation not intended.

I would be off the opinion that if anyone was in the defence forces at all and had a DOB or Name on file that did not match at least the passport or Birth cert they held. It would be very bad.

Even if this happened in the past at some piont the army would/should have done an audit on personnel and updated the records.

I would also agree with you it will not bite them on the ass its easily fixed.

minidazzler

Zambia232 wrote: »

Apologies patronisation not intended.

I would be off the opinion that if anyone was in the defence forces at all and had a DOB or Name on file that did not match at least the passport or Birth cert they held. It would be very bad.

Even if this happened in the past at some piont the army would/should have done an audit on personnel and updated the records.

I would also agree with you it will not bite them on the ass its easily fixed.

It's updated on promotion and other such things within the RDF. Or if someones due for retirement, they just whip out their Birth Cert and get a few more years.

*Note: The Process is probably not as simple as whipping out your birth cert*

Zambia

minidazzler wrote: »

It's updated on promotion and other such things within the RDF. Or if someones due for retirement, they just whip out their Birth Cert and get a few more years.

*Note: The Process is probably not as simple as whipping out your birth cert*

That's still pretty shocking...but I suppose the after effects at this stage would be minimal

minidazzler

Zambia232 wrote: »

That's still pretty shocking...but I suppose the after effects at this stage would be minimal

In the PDF I would wager there is noone who's date of birth doesn't match with their age.

RDF, there are more than likely a few left, but not too many and that will be sorted through various promotions and people leaving.

Zambia

minidazzler wrote: »

RDF, there are more than likely a few left, but not too many and that will be sorted through various promotions and people leaving.

I suppose if they are in the RDF this long if they where gonna go postal the event would have occured by now

pmg58

minidazzler wrote: »

RDF, there are more than likely a few left

Yes, I've met a few people from various units (which I wont name) who have both a normal birthday and an "Army birthday". It happened in the past, but it definitely doesn't happen anymore, thankfully. And anyone who did join up underage would be over 17 at this stage.

gizmo555

Poccington wrote: »

You can't get into the RDF with a false DOB, you use your birth cert as proof.

It certainly doesn't happen in the PDF.

Quoting a song from the Saw Doctors about the good old days of being on the piss in the FCA, isn't proof of people enlisting in the RDF these days using a false DOB.

Like I said, proof it's happening in the RDF or this thread is gone.

When I joined the FCA in the late 70s, I and - without exception - every one of the 20 or so others who joined the newly formed unit in my hometown was underage. I'd say the average age was 15.

This was also common throughout our battallion. It couldn't have happened on the scale it did without a blind eye being turned. The unofficial explanation I once got from a long serving sergeant was that at the time (the height of the violence in Northern Ireland), it was felt to be better to get young fellas with a military interest early on, rather than risk them being recruited instead by paramilitaries and subversives.

Times have changed and I would be astonished to find anything similar is happening now.

the_syco

Back in 2000 when I tried to join the FCA in the barracks on Blackhorse Avenue in Dublin, I was asked for my birth cert, as well as singing the form that they could get a security check on me.

diverdriver

I think the current system doesn't allow for it. But it was normal until the recruitment system was changed. Amazingly I was turned down aged 16 when I went to join the 11th Field Signals FCA. The Sergeant was all set to sign me up but an Officer appeared and sent me away. I was shocked. My Father didn't believe me, he thought I chickened out.

When I did eventually join the 20th Inf Batt, I was one week short of my 18th birthday. That made me the oldest in two recruit platoons in my Coy that year. Most were 16, at least one was 14. Ah those were the days, it was definitely a more interesting alternative to the Scouts.:D

But it was fortunate really that there were no serious accidents or deaths involving underage recruits over the years.

martinr5232

I joined in 1992 at the age of fifteen and im still serving I feel old now when I see my army date of birth

Pleo

have you got your proof now mod??


reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8N6KwBf0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

goldie fish

It used to be common, up to the 90s perhaps, but in the last 10 years or so it has been very strictly enforced. Birth certs and garda vetting have made sure of that.

Poccington

Pleo wrote: »

have you got your proof now mod??


reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8N6KwBf0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't ban you for the above post.

Poccington

After his comment in this thread and a rather mean spirited PM, Pleo will be taking a month off.