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Our Lady to appear in Knock on Sunday

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    #452
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Dinner wrote: »
    Over 3 years they never managed to find a better camera. Interesting.
    The government surpressed it, I would say all the photos that do exist are within less than 1 year.


    I have looked, and I don't see any detail in the splodge. Perhaps my heart just isn't open to it...
    The polarisation? In any case cameras and very bright lights do not work well.


    Going back in time would be nice. I'm not big into the testimonies. For stuff like this there are too many factors at play. Herd mentality, wishful thinking exaggeration etc. And over the course of 3 years I would have thought that something more than a few photos would have appeared. Surely the Pope could have organised a better camera for them when he found out.
    I don't think you realise how dangerous it would be for the pope to openly attempt to "promote" this so to speak.


    He managed to take the photos and have them printed. A group of nuns managed to notify the Vatican. The government did an awful job at trying to suppress it. Not a very good excuse.
    That was likely within the first year or so, after word spread the government would of began to surpress any more photos etc



    A drawing memory also suffers from a severe problem that photos don't; exaggeration, intentional or not.
    Not to the point it is a complete utter fabrication.



    Why not Christianity? It's as good a place as any to start warning people that they are worshipping the wrong religion.
    Why would it choose a church dedicated to the virgin mary in egypt? Would it not of been better to have been over the cathedral or st.peters basillica?

    Why did she appear at a Coptic church? Why not the Vatican or a Protestant or Baptist? Are you now a Coptic or does she not mind what 'flavour' of Christian you are, in which case shouldn't it be a message to stop breaking up into sub-factions?
    The latter, I believe that the church should be as one and not broken into many smaller denominations. The fact also that egypt is the country where Mary took refuge in according to the bible would be a reason why she picked an egyptian church which are mostly coptic.

    Has Mary gotten bored of the Coptics now and has gone back to the Catholics? Surely it's the Baptists turn for an apparition by now.
    I don't know why, I doubt anyone does.


    I haven't found a decent source that said he did. All I could find was about him setting up a committee to verify the appearance.
    If he set-up a committee to verify it, It likely he atleast would of visited the site himself.


    If it was a hoax it would have been bad for the location with loss of tourism etc. Imagine if Knock was proven to be a hoax! The B&B owners would be up in arms!
    Thats the way we think over here as this is a country which was predominanetly christian, proving it was a hoax would harm business, however in egypt a predominanetly muslim country proving it a hoax would be beneficial to them.

    Earthquake light was only really given a name around that time so it wouldn't have been very well documented at the time.
    There was no earthquakes recorded then, wouldn't that be kind of neccessary for earthquake lights?


    Errors during development, manipulation. I have no idea really, I'm not a photographic expert. But I find something like that a lot more probable than a supernatural being miraculously appearing over a church in the back arse of Egypt and evading the lens of all but one photographer.
    Zeitoun is in the capital btw, Would it not of been obvious the photos had been tampered with? Wouldn't the muslims who were there had just said that they saw no such light and that the photos were doctored?
    I don't think that everybody who says they saw it are lying. I'm not even sure Joe Coleman is lying. I'm sure they believe that they saw it. But that doesn't make it true. People in crowds work in funny ways.
    .


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    #453
    Johnny Giles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Johnny Giles


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    .

    Talk about bumping your post count.


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    #454
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Johnny Giles wrote: »
    Talk about bumping your post count.
    You have got to be sarcastic or if your not the irony is delicious.


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    #455
    Johnny Giles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Johnny Giles


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    You have got to be sarcastic or if your not the irony is delicious.

    At least two times you have replied with a full stop?


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    #456
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Look for bold writing


    :rolleyes:


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    #457
    Johnny Giles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Johnny Giles


    The bold writing won't add effect the post count. I was highlighting the point. Forget about it anyhow.


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    #458
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    The government surpressed it, I would say all the photos that do exist are within less than 1 year.

    And did a very bad job of suppressing it. Any links that shows how the government suppressed it? Rather than suppressing it wouldn't it have been better to get people to testify that they were there and saw nothing?
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    The polarisation? In any case cameras and very bright lights do not work well.

    I'm confused, is there or isn't there detail in the pictures taken?
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I don't think you realise how dangerous it would be for the pope to openly attempt to "promote" this so to speak.

    Perhaps I don't, but if I was Pope and I was given definitive proof that my religion was correct then I would do everything in my power to get the proof and show it to the world. What could they do, assassinate him? He's just been shown that he's right and the thousands of gods in history are false, he shouldn't be worried about a silly little thing like death!
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    That was likely within the first year or so, after word spread the government would of began to surpress any more photos etc

    If that's true, then it shows how incompetent they were. They could have chosen to pay people to say it wasn't true. They could have made the police find a projector or a culprit but instead they decided to 'suppress' any further pictures. Are they still being suppressed I wonder, or is it time for any hidden photos to surface.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Not to the point it is a complete utter fabrication.

    Not far off it.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Why would it choose a church dedicated to the virgin mary in egypt? Would it not of been better to have been over the cathedral or st.peters basillica?

    Good question, why didn't Mary appear at St. Peter's Basilica? Or at any of the other places dedicated to her that would have had access to better cameras and wouldn't have scared the Pope into silence.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    The latter, I believe that the church should be as one and not broken into many smaller denominations. The fact also that egypt is the country where Mary took refuge in according to the bible would be a reason why she picked an egyptian church which are mostly coptic.

    Has it worked? Has this definitive proof that Christianity/Coptic Christianity is the right religion had any impact on the church? Any at all?
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    If he set-up a committee to verify it, It likely he atleast would of visited the site himself

    Haven't found a source that says he has though. It would be top of my agenda anyway, government suppression or not.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Thats the way we think over here as this is a country which was predominanetly christian, proving it was a hoax would harm business, however in egypt a predominanetly muslim country proving it a hoax would be beneficial to them.

    Yet they decided not to carry on as if it was. Curious.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    There was no earthquakes recorded then, wouldn't that be kind of neccessary for earthquake lights?

    There was apparently quite a lot of seismic activity in the area around that time.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Zeitoun is in the capital btw, Would it not of been obvious the photos had been tampered with?

    I have no idea, and I guess no one can test it since the originals aren't around to be examined. Pity.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Wouldn't the muslims who were there had just said that they saw no such light and that the photos were doctored?

    If it was real wouldn't the government have said that?


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    #459
    furiousox
    Registered Users Posts: 6,960 ✭✭✭furiousox


    "Mr Coleman left the shrine saying Our Lady had appeared in the Basilica but that he was not prepared to reveal her message just yet"

    "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!"
    "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!"

    AND FURTHERMORE.....

    "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!"

    LMFAO! :pac:

    WHAT A T1T!

    CPL 593H



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    #460
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Dinner wrote: »
    And did a very bad job of suppressing it. Any links that shows how the government suppressed it? Rather than suppressing it wouldn't it have been better to get people to testify that they were there and saw nothing?
    You don't any links, common sense prevails, a mainly islamic government observes something of this sort, surely they will try and surpress it. As for the second point, I have no idea why they didn't do that, maybe they had not thought of it. I do not know


    I'm confused, is there or isn't there detail in the pictures taken?
    There is vague detail in the photos, very vague I do agree, the reason for this is the nature of film cameras as I explained earlier, bright lights do not come out correctly on camera. Polarisation helped add slightly more detail where you can see a bit more detail which I believe does have a resemblance.


    Perhaps I don't, but if I was Pope and I was given definitive proof that my religion was correct then I would do everything in my power to get the proof and show it to the world. What could they do, assassinate him? He's just been shown that he's right and the thousands of gods in history are false, he shouldn't be worried about a silly little thing like death!
    Because of the simple fact that not everyone will want to believe, there will always be people sceptical of it and will refuse to believe it. As good as his intentions would be, promoting something like that on a huge scale would only cause ALOT of trouble for not only him but the entire christian population in the country by the extremists around at the time. He would not of been worried for his own life but for the innocent people who would of been killed or attacked.


    If that's true, then it shows how incompetent they were. They could have chosen to pay people to say it wasn't true. They could have made the police find a projector or a culprit but instead they decided to 'suppress' any further pictures. Are they still being suppressed I wonder, or is it time for any hidden photos to surface.
    I don't mean they were censored, there was probably methods to prevent photos being tooken. They could easily plant a projector or blame someone or something for the first year and they could imprison the culprit or destroy the projector/whatever but what if it reoccurs as it did? What would they tell the public? The government would lose all its credibility.


    Not far off it.



    Good question, why didn't Mary appear at St. Peter's Basilica? Or at any of the other places dedicated to her that would have had access to better cameras and wouldn't have scared the Pope into silence.
    She appeared at other areas for example Fatima and Lourdes, these may of been in the 19th century and I have no way to prove them but the answer as to why especially that church, I don't know and no one does.


    Has it worked? Has this definitive proof that Christianity/Coptic Christianity is the right religion had any impact on the church? Any at all? People converted to christianity who were there, Unless you were there you cannot appreciate the impact it had. A photo is nothing at all like witnessing something first hand.



    Haven't found a source that says he has though. It would be top of my agenda anyway, government suppression or not.
    He may or may not of visited the site, He likely did but without it being documented, why I do not know and does it really make that big a difference to the credibility of this particular apparition.



    Yet they decided not to carry on as if it was. Curious.
    I'm actually confused as to what that sentence means, its 1:35 and I'm tired :pac:


    There was apparently quite a lot of seismic activity in the area around that time.
    Never heard about that, why would it appear as small bird-like "splodges" of light if it was earthquake lights and would it not fill the night sky? Not just over a church dome.


    I have no idea, and I guess no one can test it since the originals aren't around to be examined. Pity.
    What originals? They are all real original photos according to what we know. They acknowledge one is a drawing over a photo depicting in higher detail.
    I am really getting tired of arguing over this, its just back and forth so how about we call it a day?


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    #461
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    To what the people know her to look like, surely if she is the mother of god would she not be able to appear in the form the people can recognise her by.

    Don't let them get to you my good man we all know its real and when Santa turns up this christmas they will know the full power of god.


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    #462
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    Don't let them get to you my good man we all know its real and when Santa turns up this christmas they will know the full power of god.
    You should really be a comedian, that "joke" is the funniest thing I've read all night, the most original idea I've ever read. Thanks for all the laughs.


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    #463
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    It really isn't the funniest and we both know it. Thou shalt not lie remember that young man? We all know the funniest thing on here all night is the people stating the sun danced and Mary appeared for one and all showering us in a light drizzle filled with hope and bull****.


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    #464
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    It really isn't the funniest and we both know it. Thou shalt not lie remember that young man? We all know the funniest thing on here all night is the people stating the sun danced and Mary appeared for one and all showering us in a light drizzle filled with hope and bull****.
    Oh I wasn't lying man, that truly was the funniest I've heard today and the most original on this thread atleast....

    I have my doubts on knock, does that mean nothing happened? No it doesn't, something might or mightn't of happened and I don't know. Whats funny though is people who think they're the coolest person on earth and come around to repeat what has been said a million times already.


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    #465
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    In fairness, it's not an attempt at being "cool".


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    #466
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Dudess wrote: »
    In fairness, it's not an attempt at being "cool".
    Maybe cool was the wrong word...

    Some kind of "Look at those retards there, I'm far too smart for any of that sort of stuff" which annoys me.


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    #467
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    Thou shalt not lie remember that young man?



    Where does this come from? You phrase it as though it's one of the ten biblical commandments...it's not.


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    #468
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    humberklog wrote: »
    Where does this come from? You phrase it as though it's one of the ten biblical commandments...it's not.

    There were 12 commandments originally but back in the 1980's Reagan had them filtered down to 10. Didn't save him in the end it has to be said..


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    #469
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Maybe cool was the wrong word...

    Some kind of "Look at those retards there, I'm far too smart for any of that sort of stuff" which annoys me.


    Oh come on, foolish behaviour should be treated as such. Sure vehemently scolding those attending isn't too bright but ignoring or accepting such foolish behaviour can't be good for society on the whole. Encouraging nonsense is just that.


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    #470
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,164 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Is it true there going to be showing it live on Sky News..


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    #471
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Maybe cool was the wrong word...

    Some kind of "Look at those retards there, I'm far too smart for any of that sort of stuff" which annoys me.
    Look, having faith is one thing, which people are entitled to have. And fair play to anyone who has a strong faith and doesn't impose it on people or insist they're right "just because". I know many very good people of that disposition.
    But flocking to Knock because of what some "psychic" says? It just seems farcical...


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    #472
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    You don't any links, common sense prevails, a mainly islamic government observes something of this sort, surely they will try and surpress it. As for the second point, I have no idea why they didn't do that, maybe they had not thought of it. I do not know
    So really, you have no actual evidence that there was a cover up. All the indications are that there wasn't. It received coverage in papers, nuns told the Vatican about it and the Vatican sent a delegation and Pope Cyril issued a statement on it. There is simply nothing to indicate that there was any sort of cover up apart from your own suspicions.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    There is vague detail in the photos, very vague I do agree, the reason for this is the nature of film cameras as I explained earlier, bright lights do not come out correctly on camera. Polarisation helped add slightly more detail where you can see a bit more detail which I believe does have a resemblance.
    Vague detail that I still can't see. And if we have to resort manipulating the photo to see anything then it isn't exactly all that reliable.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Because of the simple fact that not everyone will want to believe, there will always be people sceptical of it and will refuse to believe it. As good as his intentions would be, promoting something like that on a huge scale would only cause ALOT of trouble for not only him but the entire christian population in the country by the extremists around at the time. He would not of been worried for his own life but for the innocent people who would of been killed or attacked.
    That sounds an awful lot like making excuses for not taking any action. I find it hard to believe that any Pope could resist the temptation to comment on it. Did Pope Cyril have any trouble when he commented on it? Y'know what with being in a Muslim country.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I don't mean they were censored, there was probably methods to prevent photos being tooken. They could easily plant a projector or blame someone or something for the first year and they could imprison the culprit or destroy the projector/whatever but what if it reoccurs as it did? What would they tell the public? The government would lose all its credibility.
    So they somehow stopped people from taking pictures? That's incredibly impractical.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    She appeared at other areas for example Fatima and Lourdes, these may of been in the 19th century and I have no way to prove them but the answer as to why especially that church, I don't know and no one does.
    Wonder is there a correlation and causation between the levels of apparition and the rise in easily accessible cameras, because she has gotten very quiet on the appearance front recently.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    People converted to christianity who were there, Unless you were there you cannot appreciate the impact it had. A photo is nothing at all like witnessing something first hand.
    I think unless any of us were there we can't know if it truly happened. I'm very comfortable to put all my eggs in the 'not' basket. Any reliable numbers on how many people converted? Did the police, for example, who were all over the place like a rash trying to stop people from taking photos convert to Christianity?
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    He may or may not of visited the site, He likely did but without it being documented, why I do not know and does it really make that big a difference to the credibility of this particular apparition.
    It is sort of a big deal if the leader of the Coptic church isn't even bothered to turn up to see proof that his religion is correct.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I'm actually confused as to what that sentence means, its 1:35 and I'm tired
    Think I phrased it badly. What I mean is that the local area seemed to be happy to accept the tourism, because there doesn't seem to be any proof that people were removed from the site. If there really was 'millions' there then the local businesses would have made a killing.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Never heard about that, why would it appear as small bird-like "splodges" of light if it was earthquake lights and would it not fill the night sky? Not just over a church dome.
    I have no idea, I only read the abstract of the study. And despite how cool seismology is, I'm not a scientist involved in that field.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    What originals? They are all real original photos according to what we know. They acknowledge one is a drawing over a photo depicting in higher detail.
    I mean the original film which could be studied.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    I am really getting tired of arguing over this, its just back and forth so how about we call it a day?
    Fine by me. Apologies for the long post. I'll try and shorten it out in future.


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    #473
    _Kooli_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭_Kooli_


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    It really isn't the funniest and we both know it. Thou shalt not lie remember that young man? We all know the funniest thing on here all night is the people stating the sun danced and Mary appeared for one and all showering us in a light drizzle filled with hope and bull****.

    Its a sin to lie even on the interweb. There is a special confession on at Knock this morning. Its for everyone who says they saw the virgin Mary.


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    #474
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    All my stupid remarks aside, I have no problem with people having a strong belief in their chosen religion. What I do have a huge problem with is the likes of that guy going around predicting such things, playing on peoples emotions and fears.


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    #475
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    The Virgin Mary appears around my house every other weekend. You don't hear me harping on about it.

    She normally delivers a message along the lines of "Will you keep it down in here? Some of us are trying to sleep for flip's sake. You have absolutely no consideration for other people whatsoever."

    "Now now Mary," I reply, "You and I both know that you're not real."

    Then I turn up my music and she calls the Gardai.


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    #476
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Dudess wrote: »
    Look, having faith is one thing, which people are entitled to have. And fair play to anyone who has a strong faith and doesn't impose it on people or insist they're right "just because". I know many very good people of that disposition.
    But flocking to Knock because of what some "psychic" says? It just seems farcical...
    Only an idiot would trust some "psychic" anyway, I do have my doubts on the recent knock apparition. In any case, I am tired of posting on this thread so thats all from me anyway.


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    #477
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/01/thousands-await-knocks-virgin-mary
    Across the road, the O'Brien and Berry families from Co Wexford were bedding down for the night inside their van. Surrounded by her daughter Anne and grandsons, Martin and Luke, Alice Berry said that while she wanted see the Virgin Mary appear she was afraid of the message she would be bringing from heaven. "Of course I'm here to see Our Lady but I am worried about what she is going to say. I'm afraid she's going to tell us something terrible," said Alice.

    The Berrys, like the most of those gathered this weekend beside the Knock shrine, are travellers. Their presence has illuminated the social chasm between them and the Republic's settled majority.

    Many of the travellers gathering inside the shrine's grounds late on Friday complained that the public toilets had been locked and car parks blocked to prevent them from parking their vans, motor homes and caravans. They also pointed out that all of the pubs in the village have been shut and none were prepared to sell them carry-outs.


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    #478
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    My name is URL wrote: »

    The Berrys, like the most of those gathered this weekend beside the Knock shrine, are travellers. Their presence has illuminated the social chasm between them and the Republic's settled majority.

    Jammy cunts


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    #479
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The fella behind this nonsense is on liveline, talk to Joe!

    www.rte.ie/radio1


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    #480
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    murfie wrote: »
    Its sad that here on AH posters can ridicule peoples faith with such intolerance and nastiness.

    Live and let live.

    Personally i think it's funny.

    Horses for courses, no?


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    #481
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Dudess wrote: »
    Look, having faith is one thing, which people are entitled to have. And fair play to anyone who has a strong faith and doesn't impose it on people or insist they're right "just because". I know many very good people of that disposition.
    But flocking to Knock because of what some "psychic" says? It just seems farcical...

    Ironically, go back a couple of hundred years and said person claiming to be psychic would have been dragged out in the street and burned as a witch most likely in the name of God.

    Funky.


This discussion has been closed.
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