Honest about Santa

big syke

Its not a question of lying in my opinion

I love the way my parents did the whole Santa thing. They told me when i was in second year, i already knew but they only told me so as i wouldn't tell my brother or his friends (not that i would have!!).

Even now in my mams house She does the Santa things where i call over to the house ealry and go in to the sitting room with my brother and get our "santa" presents. Might be a bit sad but i like the nostalgia of it all. When we go to my dads on stephens day he has presents, that he refuses to admit he bought, under his tree!! Call me sad but i diont give a flying flute!

I hope i can provide my daughter with xmas memories and the other feeling before xmas that i got and still get to this day.

Love2love

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I remember I loved Hulk Hogan when I was young and my Dad went out of his way to tell me it was all staged. Do you think that's mean?

In all fairness there is a big difference in believing in Santa and in Hulk Hogan. Even when playing wrestling, it can be dangerous for children, never mind when they believe that its OK to throw a chair at someone you just have an argument with.

Believing is Santa is different. When I found out there was no Santa, I didnt hate my parents because they lied to me or because they didnt continue to lie to me. I cant remember what age I was but it was my mother who sat down and told me. I had a feeling that there wasn't anyway from some of the kids at school.

Just because I want my child to have the same magical childhood Christmases that I had, doesn't make me a bad parent and doesn't mean that I am neglecting his other needs in life. My child trusts me, I know he does, he knows that I am going to be there when he wakes up and when he goes to bed, he'll know that when he needs me, I will be there, whether that is now or in 30 years time. I didnt stop trusting my parents when I found out there was no Santa. In fact it made me appreciate them so much more, because I knew they had gone to so much trouble to keep Christmas magical for me even if it meant giving all the credit to a fat man in a red suit.

robbie_998

are you saying santy isint real ? :(:(:(:(

mark renton

can we get some spoilers on this thread people please

Nevyn

john47832 wrote: »

can we get some spoilers on this thread people please

No, boards.ie is for teenagers and above and even then parents should be monitoring what their children see and hear, so I don't see how this thread needs spoilers.

ebmma

Santa thing came up in conversation with my friend yesterday and I thought her parents had quite an interesting take on it all :-)

My friend was told about Santa not being real in school and she confronted her parents. They told her that Santa died a very long time ago so now parents give their kids presents on his behalf.

Tim Robbins

ebmma wrote: »

Santa thing came up in conversation with my friend yesterday and I thought her parents had quite an interesting take on it all :-)

My friend was told about Santa not being real in school and she confronted her parents. They told her that Santa died a very long time ago so now parents give their kids presents on his behalf.

What do people of the one (and we all know this one) where a kid says:
"I don't believe in Santa" and then the parents still try to push them into believing?

In my innocent view, I think if my children told me that I'd be so proud of them, I'd increase their presents :-)

Nevyn

Tim Robbins wrote: »

What do people of the one (and we all know this one) where a kid says:
"I don't believe in Santa" and then the parents still try to push them into believing?

I wouldn't, I'd take the same tactic as if they told me they didn't believe in god/s.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

In my innocent view, I think if my children told me that I'd be so proud of them, I'd increase their presents :-)

Again if thats how you wish to raise your children that's your call.

ebmma

I don't know where I stand on the whole Santa thing myself. I don't mind it, but I think I'll personally find it difficult to do the whole charade. I was never much of an actress :-)

As an aside, I am also one of those odd children who didn't believe. Made my poor mother cry :rolleyes:

But you know what...You know when Christmas became magical for me?
When I was 20. I moved in with my boyfriend (my husband now ) and I started spending christmas with his family instead of mine.
He's from a family of 7 and they all seemed to like me straight away and it was a first time in my life when I got a heap of presents (I'm an only child and my parents weren't social, so only 3 people at christmas when I was growing up). Also the magic and excitement all came from being around lots of really nice people, 4+ kids running around, lights, music, tons of good food, huge real tree! This hope of something really cool to come floating in the air...
Nothing to do with big fat man in a suit anyway. But I am excited at Christmas as I never ever was as a child.

I think this is what I want for my kid(s) - the excitement and fun and feeling of being loved and appreciated.

But still don't know what to do with Santa thing I do have a year or 2 to figure it out...

so I'm the only one who thinks Christmas is exciting? I suppose maybe I just haven't reached adulthood by 23

Quality

I dont know about the rest of you adults... But when I stopped believing in santa there was no real excitement in christmas anymore?


It only became exciting for me again when I had my own kids and Santa was coming to them.

Santa is just part of the magic of christmas, Like the christmas tree and lights and decorations...

You may as well not celebrate christmas if santa is not going to be a part of it...

Nevyn

My family are mad about christmas so even when there wasn't any more santa there was still the thrill and excitement about christmas.

We do thing a little differently in this household with the celebration of winter solatice,
yule and christmast day, but it's still fun and magic.

Khannie

Thaedydal wrote: »

My family are mad about christmas so even when there wasn't any more santa there was still the thrill and excitement about christmas.

It's weird....the crappest Christmas I remember was when there was no Santa (it was still great, but the least great). My nephew and I were too old and my niece was too young so there was no santa on Christmas morning. I mean....we were all still delighted with our presents and all....but the excitement just wasn't the same.

Tim Robbins

Quality wrote: »

Santa is just part of the magic of christmas, Like the christmas tree and lights and decorations...

You may as well not celebrate christmas if santa is not going to be a part of it...

I don't get the "magic of Christmas" thing full stop. I don't like family occasions, in my case they are full of politics and bad experiences.

eviltwin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't get the "magic of Christmas" thing full stop. I don't like family occasions, in my case they are full of politics and bad experiences.

Well there you go...you have a pretty negative view of it all anyway..that might explain a lot of why you have such a desire not to lie to your kids

Try not to be so down on it.

I used to be very cynical about holidays. I would find christmas a bore, we'd get drunk, go partying and that was it and then my daughter came along and suddenly I got it, I understood what everyone was talking about. I got that warm, fuzzy feeling because for once I was seeing it all through her eyes rather than my own and it felt amazing.

She's 12 now and hasnt believed in ages so some of that magic is gone again but when I'm around little kids and see the excitement on their faces and hear about their letters to santa or see them put their stockings by the fireplace I cant help but feel like a kid myself again and without sounding all Hollywood it does make me feel all aglow

Its not sad or harmful to let your children believe in fairytales ... in fact it can be very good for your soul .. you should give it a go

ebmma

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't get the "magic of Christmas" thing full stop. I don't like family occasions, in my case they are full of politics and bad experiences.

Was the same with me.
Hated holidays. Especially family ones. Tried to plan my work so I can spend as much of the "holiday" away.
Didn't get along with my family - and for some reason it became worse around major holidays. Just lots of stress, quarrels..And always having to pretend to be happy.

Once I changed families and started my own it all changed for me. Holidays are pretty great when you are surrounded by "live and let live" sort of people.

deisemum

Now that my children know about santa one of the things I miss in the run up to christmas is no longer being able to say something like "you better behave santa might be watching" as it usually resulted in better behaviour and a distraction from what they were doing.

mumto3

To be fair,OP, why celebrate christmass in the first place???If you only want to be factual with your kids, why are you celebrateing someone you dont even know exists!!
Isnt it supposed to be about the birth of jesus?Wheres the proof he is real?Or is he just someone you like to believe is true,to make life a small bit more magical.....kettle...pot...anyone?
Im not getting into the whole religion thing but think about it

Tim Robbins

eviltwin wrote: »

I used to be very cynical about holidays. I would find christmas a bore, we'd get drunk, go partying and that was it and then my daughter came along and suddenly I got it, I understood what everyone was talking about. I got that warm, fuzzy feeling because for once I was seeing it all through her eyes rather than my own and it felt amazing.

I really like Good Friday and Easter Weekend. I love watching the way people get freaked out because the pubs close. A gentle reminder that there is so many other things to do that freak them out. I love the beginning of the Summer and the long stretch in the evenings. Winter has finally ended when Easter comes :-)

I love the way they keep changing ever year when Easter comes, based on full moons. I love the way there's no pressure at Easter, just a nice long weekend.

Its not sad or harmful to let your children believe in fairytales ... in fact it can be very good for your soul .. you should give it a go

I don't like the Santa fairytale as to me it's just an unbridled capitalistic monster gone mad.

I'm just not a materialistic person. I find it all a bit cringe inducing, companies tricking people into thinking they need to buy needless things to find some sort of happiness and normality and the way so many people just fall for it without ever stopping and questioning it or thinking about it critically.

It's just too easy to fall for it all and get carried away with it. That is what we do in this country. Get carried away with it. The decorations in the shops go up as soon as Hallow'een ends. There's a reason for this:

They want your money!

Eoineo

I think that this year there will be less materialism about Christmas and Santa in many households TR.

You've put forward your argument very well but the great thing about being a parent is to be the best parent you can be for your own child. What's good for you and your family may not work for me. Only you can choose what to tell your child - that's the beauty of being responsible for your own children.

ebmma

mumto3 wrote: »

To be fair,OP, why celebrate christmass in the first place???If you only want to be factual with your kids, why are you celebrateing someone you dont even know exists!!
Isnt it supposed to be about the birth of jesus?Wheres the proof he is real?Or is he just someone you like to believe is true,to make life a small bit more magical.....kettle...pot...anyone?
Im not getting into the whole religion thing but think about it

I think that's a bit over the top. Why all or nothing? Christmas (like most major holidays) has evolved far beyond any of its original meaning/meanings. It wasn't originally about Jesus either, it was something to do with winter solstice (Thaedydal can probably correct me on this).

Nowadays it has very little to do with religion for most folks, doesn't mean it should not be 'allowed'.

Quality

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't get the "magic of Christmas" thing full stop. I don't like family occasions, in my case they are full of politics and bad experiences.

Well maybe you should try and make christmas a more positive time for your kids and for yourself from now on in...

You are the head of your family so try and make good experiences and good memories for the future..:)

quickbeam

I'm single and not a parent, so my opinion at the moment is only conjecture and could change when I have kids or if a future partner felt strongly otherwise. However, I agree with Tim in everything he has said. Whether you like it or not, telling kids that there is a Santa is lying. In your opinions, it may be a justifiable or white lie - I'm not going to condem that, you have the right to raise your children as you think appropriate. My children will still get presents and they will still have imagination. They'll not just read encyclopedias (!) - they'll read fairy tales and fiction, but they'll know it's fiction. I can't see how this is depriving them of any of the magic of childhood.

miss no stars

Santa is real. To young kids, Santa is very much a definate fact and very much in existence, albeit in their imagination.

Is that not real?

To me I think it is as unquestionably real as the sea contains water and salt and the grass is green.

People aren't lying to kids when they help them create the whole imaginary world of santa clause and the north pole and elves making toys. It's allowing them to be children. It's teaching them escapism. Tim Robbins - have you ever thought that it might be important to teach children how to escape to a happier place in their mind?

I think there are other things associated with santa that are good.
*Write a letter - teaches the practical skill of consolidating your thoughts and ideas onto a sheet of paper
*anticipation of an uncertain event - It's real easy to get excited about something you know will happen... but what if you're thinking of all those bad things you did? Will Santa come?
*on a related note - it teaches that actions have consequences. Jimmy punches his little brother in the private parts 2 weeks before christmas. mom/dad says "I'm not sure Santa likes that type of behaviour". Suddenly little Jimmy understands that bad behaviour can have worse consequences than being grounded
*Appreciation - from memory, I always so much more appreciated the fact that there were presents there when there was uncertainty over whether they would be or not. That's not being snotty about "oh well it's a sure thing I get presents now so I won't appreciate it". But if you've had to "work hard at being good" "all year (aka, the run up to christmas)", it means something else on a totally different level to see a pile of presents sitting there - almost like learning that effort reaps reward.


So I'm probably taking this too far. But the underlying issue is that I do not see any negatives to christmas. It was so exciting to try stay awake listening for reindeer on the roof, to come down and see the mine pie, glass of milk and carrot gone and to think "YES! SANTA CAME!"
I've lots of happy santa related memories. I wouldn't trade them for the world. In fact, if my parents had told me before I was done believing, I'd resent them a little for it. Kids have little enough time to be kids these days. Santa is, imho, one of the last bastions of innocent childhood imagination.

Brian Capture

thorbarry wrote: »

It seems like your main argument is that you are lying to your children. What about some of my other posts about this? Would you tell your kid that they are too fat and ugly to be a model, or too thick to be an accountant.. or that their dead pet rots in the ground and doesn't go to animal heaven.

"my friend says rover is in animal heaven "
"don't be crazy, its not in animal heaven, its dead"

Tim probably thinks that accoutants are "boring" and "unimaginative".

No harm in letting children believe in Santa

BUT

the whole concept is ridiculous if you consider it. There is no way that one man can deliver presents for every child in the world in one day. IT CANNOT BE DONE.

we'llallhavetea_old

john47832 wrote: »

can we get some spoilers on this thread people please

mwah!



anywho! as a child i absolutely loved christmas time (who didn't?) and i remember the day my dad sat me down on his knee and told me that santa wouldnt be coming to me anymore as i was too old, but that him and mam would be buying my presents from then on (he didnt have the heart to actually say santy didnt exist!)
i was absolutely gutted to say the least even though i knew he wasnt real (but was really hoping against all odds he was!), but even though i was distraught i can look back and be so grateful that my parents "lied" to me throughout my childhood about santys' existance.
the magic of it all was the best times of my childhood.

Tim Robbins

miss no stars wrote: »

I think there are other things associated with santa that are good.
*Write a letter - ...
*anticipation of an uncertain event - ...
*on a related note - ...
*Appreciation - ...

All those things are achievable without lying.

There is no morality in Santa whatever spin is put on it, as Santa is predicated on lying.

How can that be considered moral?

Santa is, imho, one of the last bastions of innocent childhood imagination.

It's based on three things deceit, capitalism and yes kids imagination.

ebmma

Telling kids Santa exists is lying. Sorry, but lying is defined as not telling the truth and this is what people are doing.
However, sometimes lying is justified. Everyone does it. No need to pretend that "only bad people do", we are all adults here.
example:
-Ebmma, what were you up to today?
-Not much, went to town.
- Did anything fun there?
- met a friend for coffee.
(I was actually buying my OH a birthday present)

With regards to imagination - I'm confused, being honest.
Kids read fairy stories all the time, they imagine what would happen if they were real and it's great. It fuels their imagination.
However, anyone paid a 10yo neighbour to wear green tights and pretend to fly outside the window when a kid is reading Peter Pan?
Anyone swapping pumpkins in your garden into carriages not to upset their kids after they read Cinderella?

What I mean is, i don't think the whole Santa thing is the basis for kids imagination and once they realise he wasn't actually there it just disappeared.
Also that would imply that there are no adults with imagination. Which is just silly.

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's based on three things deceit, capitalism and yes kids imagination.

OK so santa is based on An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.


i have seen and heard many many stupid things said in my life but that is probably the dumbest post i have ever read in my life.

No matter wat you say i wouldn’t even call santa a white lie. Am i a liar because i tell my niece stories about faries and princesses that have magic? No its helping them develop imagination and personality. The world would be a very boring place if we were not aloud to “lie” to children.

ebmma

big syke wrote: »

No matter wat you say i wouldn’t even call santa a white lie. Am i a liar because i tell my niece stories about faries and princesses that have magic? No its helping them develop imagination and personality. The world would be a very boring place if we were not aloud to “lie” to children.

Oh but you have to call Santa a white lie. Maybe it is a wonderful lie (I'm not against Santa at all in case it's not obvious). But it is a lie. We need to move away from "lie" being necessarily a bad thing and be honest with ourselves.

As I said above even if you do nothing to support kid's belief in Santa they will still have their natural inquisitive, imaginative nature helped by the books you read to them and role play.

Do you tell your niece that fairies are real too? Even children understand that Cinderella is not a documentary, however it does not stunt their imagination. They understand that they are not really a doctor when they are playing with their dolls, but that is still a fun play. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

And I'm sorry that you think that the world is a boring place. I happen to think it is really cool and amazing if you just let yourself see it :-)

Tim Robbins

big syke wrote: »

No matter wat you say i wouldn’t even call santa a white lie. Am i a liar because i tell my niece stories about faries and princesses that have magic? No its helping them develop imagination and personality. The world would be a very boring place if we were not aloud to “lie” to children.

I think there's something very manipulative about the Santa lie. It thrives on materialism whereas other lies and imaginary friends don't seem to.

I think humans should try to get over their craving materialistic needs not nurture them.