Irish Aliyah ?

Iwasfrozen

I was looking up the population Demographies of America and came upon something very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American.
Apperantly 36,495,800 people in America claim Irish descent with another circa 14,000,000 in Britain. Now this got me thinking.

Why doesn't the Irish government pull an Israel and give all those exiles an Irish passport to try to coax them to come back to Ireland with the promise of imporved wages and conditiones to their current host nation ?

Now I know what your saying they'll never come, but I'm talking about 50 million people here, even if we only get 10% to return home then we have already doubled the population of our little isle.

And whats more the current citizens will also benifite with better hospitals, schools, and an all round island motarway.

shanethemofo

You'd want to get a grip of yourself.

Euro_Kraut

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And whats more the current citizens will also benifite with better hospitals, schools, and an all round island motarway.

How would an extra 5 million people help these?

Iwasfrozen

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

How would an extra 5 million people help these?

Tax money.
Also more people will help buy up the now empty houses littering the country.

dresden8

You're supposing they're all bringing a wodge of cash with them.

shanethemofo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Tax money.

From the jobs they wont have or from the stamp duty on the houses whose mortgages they wont be able to repay?

Iwasfrozen

dresden8 wrote: »

You're supposing they're all bringing a wodge of cash with them.

Not at all, they will be bringing their manpower, and knowledge with them.
The money will come from the creation of new jobs.

shanethemofo wrote:

From the jobs they wont have or from the stamp duty on the houses whose mortgages they wont be able to repay?

Everybody can have a job, I would like to see a change in legislation that requires all people on social welfare to sign on for employment.
Say that shop down the street ? You may think it might only need one person but there is no reason why three or four people couldn't work in it at the states expense.

major bill

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I was looking up the population Demographies of America and came upon something very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American.
Apperantly 36,495,800 people in America claim Irish descent with another circa 14,000,000 in Britain. Now this got me thinking.

Why doesn't the Irish government pull an Israel and give all those exiles an Irish passport to try to coax them to come back to Ireland with the promise of imporved wages and conditiones to their current host nation ?

Now I know what your saying they'll never come, but I'm talking about 50 million people here, even if we only get 10% to return home then we have already doubled the population of our little isle.

And whats more the current citizens will also benifite with better hospitals, schools, and an all round island motarway.

you serious how many people are unemployed? government can barely manage 4 million let alone ten million people.

Iwasfrozen

major bill wrote: »

you serious how many people are unemployed? government can barely manage 4 million let alone ten million people.

Of course I'm serious !
The government is only as good as it's people and the more people we bring in the easier it will be to shape this country into a proper Western European country with a proud history.

Rb

That's great idea OP, while we're at it we should probably just cull those on the dole currently as they're clearly not interested in working, as opposed to the ~5 million enthusiastic job fairies that you'll pull over here.

Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?

axer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Of course I'm serious !
The government is only as good as it's people and the more people we bring in the easier it will be to shape this country into a proper Western European country with a proud history.

Or else we will have epic fail caused by too much stress on our public services.

Iwasfrozen

Rb wrote: »

That's great idea OP, while we're at it we should probably just cull those on the dole currently as they're clearly not interested in working, as opposed to the ~5 million enthusiastic job fairies that you'll pull over here.

When you introduce legislation it isn't about what people want. you know what ? Hey, I don't want to pay taxes but I must because that is the law.
These people will have to work to recieve a dole, no work, no dole.

oh, and This isn't about making job fairies it is about maturing Ireland as a country and improving the economy at the same time. If you live in Dublin you will notice that the city is not clean, I would guess that there are 1,000 street cleaners in dublin. We could easily triple that if we introduce these measures.
Wouldn't you like to live in a clean city ?

Iwasfrozen

axer wrote: »

Or else we will have epic fail caused by too much stress on our public services.

These people won't stay in public service forever.

shanethemofo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

When you introduce legislation it isn't about what people want. you know what ? Hey, I don't want to pay taxes but I must because that is the law.
These people will have to work to recieve a dole, no work, no dole.

oh, and This isn't about making job fairies it is about maturing Ireland as a country and improving the economy at the same time. If you live in Dublin you will notice that the city is not clean, I would guess that there are 1,000 street cleaners in dublin. We could easily triple that if we introduce these measures.
Wouldn't you like to live in a clean city ?

You dont seem to understand. These people still need to be paid. Where do you propose the money come from? They're not paying income tax, just claiming the dole. The government cant afford the people on the dole as it is!

Is this actually just a joke?

Iwasfrozen

shanethemofo wrote: »

You dont seem to understand. These people still need to be paid. Where do you propose the money come from? They're not paying income tax, just claiming the dole. The government cant afford the people on the dole as it is!

If you increase productivity the economy will follow, not all these people will sign onto the dole, the majority of them will get jobs.
You seem to be of the opinion that 5 million people are going to sign on overnight.

cabinteelytom

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why doesn't the Irish government pull an Israel and give all those exiles an Irish passport to try to coax them to come back to Ireland with the promise of imporved wages and conditiones to their current host nation ?

Thank you. In effect, you are calling for a ius sanguinis law, granting nationality to people of Irish descent; which many countries (not Ireland though) already have. It's an idea of merit.

The 'coaxing back' could be done on a head-hunting principle, and properly managed, would mean the recruitment to the economy, of able, trained people, with experience of achievement in other economies; which would be exceptionally useful to us.

DoireNod

I don't think it's in any way feasible or desirable.

av8rirl

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You seem to be of the opinion that 5 million people are going to sign on overnight.

So they are going to find the jobs that the current 400,000 unemployed people can't?

I kinda see what you are getting at... but when you wake up tomorrow morning with the hangover... you'll realise that you just got talking to the wrong lad in the pub tonight and ye really got carried away!!

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why doesn't the Irish government pull an Israel and give all those exiles an Irish passport to try to coax them to come back to Ireland with the promise of imporved wages and conditiones to their current host nation ?
.

You do realise there is poverty and unemployment in Israel?

Theres also the thing whereby people with a good job and/or a fair bit of cash to hand tend to be comfortable exactly where they are, ideologues excepted.

There are also no disgruntled locals referring to Irish people as 'the ones with all the money' or 'christ killers' and making them feel unwelcome (that I know of) to act as a spur.

OldJay

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The government is only as good as it's people

What???? :eek:

Would these Irish olim of yours have been persecuted abroad?

axer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

These people won't stay in public service forever.

Like the health system, public transport etc?

Iwasfrozen

DoireNod wrote: »

I don't think it's in any way feasible or desirable.

Could you give reasons for that statment ?

av8rirl wrote:

So they are going to find the jobs that the current 400,000 unemployed people can't?

As said when you increase productivity and infastructure the economy and jobs will follow.

av8rirl wrote:

I kinda see what you are getting at... but when you wake up tomorrow morning with the hangover... you'll realise that you just got talking to the wrong lad in the pub tonight and ye really got carried away!!

Well it's the next morning and no hangover, I guess that's because I wasn't drinking.

Nodin wrote:

You do realise there is poverty and unemployment in Israel?

As there is every where but you cannot deny that it has grown very fast from a desert mandate 60 years ago.

Nodin wrote:

Theres also the thing whereby people with a good job and/or a fair bit of cash to hand tend to be comfortable exactly where they are, ideologues excepted.

As I said in my first post, we are not going to get them all but even if we could get 10% back then that would double our population.

cabinteelytom wrote:

The 'coaxing back' could be done on a head-hunting principle, and properly managed, would mean the recruitment to the economy, of able, trained people, with experience of achievement in other economies; which would be exceptionally useful to us.

Exactly, those that will make the long journey overseas tend to be young people with money. Done right this could revolutionise not only Ireland but the Irish people.

Tricity Bendix

Tapping in to the knowledge and expertise of the Irish diaspora is a laudable aim. Wanting to double the amount of people living here is not. It would put tremendous strain on our depleted resources, lead to huge levels of homelessness, crime and civil unrest.

As for state-sponsored jobs, you only have to look north to see what that leads to. If Northern Ireland didn't receive large sums of money from the UK they simply could not afford the plethora of public service jobs they use to keep unemployment down.

Iwasfrozen

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

As for state-sponsored jobs, you only have to look north to see what that leads to. If Northern Ireland didn't receive large sums of money from the UK they simply could not afford the plethora of public service jobs they use to keep unemployment down.

These people on unemployment benifites will be paid the same amount as they are now. I am not suggesting we create a plethora of public service jobs.

=Tricity Bendix wrote:

lead to huge levels of homelessness, crime and civil unrest.

Why do you think that ?

johnnyskeleton

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I was looking up the population Demographies of America and came upon something very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American.
Apperantly 36,495,800 people in America claim Irish descent with another circa 14,000,000 in Britain. Now this got me thinking.

I think most of them claim it in America because they are a) white b) don't have an Italian or Polish surname and c) want desperately to have some kind of heritage (because all the other kids have them).

In Britain to a lesser extent, people want to distinguish themselves somewhat.

If it comes to it, I'm sure that up to 1m Irish people could claim English or Scottish descent if they looked a few generations back into their family tree, but the point is that they don't want to.

Iwasfrozen

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I think most of them claim it in America because they are a) white b) don't have an Italian or Polish surname and c) want desperately to have some kind of heritage (because all the other kids have them).

In Britain to a lesser extent, people want to distinguish themselves somewhat.

If it comes to it, I'm sure that up to 1m Irish people could claim English or Scottish descent if they looked a few generations back into their family tree, but the point is that they don't want to.

The ideal is to reach out to the Irish Diaspora who wish to come back and provide them with the means to do so. They get the better working conditions and wages that our country offers and we get their manpower and knowledge.

alfranken

I think Ireland should be auctioned to a tv station for a Battle Royale type production.

Tricity Bendix

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

These people on unemployment benifites will be paid the same amount as they are now. I am not suggesting we create a plethora of public service jobs.

Leaving aside the fact that government subsidised employment in the private sector is against EC competition law, I'm not sure the idea is even desireable. Like, if we consider the corner shop which had one person working in it. Now It has one worker and four state-paid employees. This could actually make it more difficult for the shop to provide a high level of service as it now has to try and co-ordinate half-trained people who have no incentive to work hard or do well by the company, and whom the shop didn't choose to hire.

I don't want to rubbish work to welfare schemes generally, but doing it on a large scale would be incredibly difficult, and potentially disasterous.

Why do you think that ?

Homelessness will result because there is no way we can build homes for 5 million people. Even over time, our planning regulations would never allow it.

Crime will rise because 5 million emmigrants arriving in a country with no jobs will find some way to make ends meat.

Civil unrest will be inevitable, as it has occured with pretty much every large scale migration in history. Irish people have found it difficult enough to digest people coming from Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe. A plan to make those of us born here a minority in our own country would be fiercly contested.

dvpower

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Now I know what your saying they'll never come, but I'm talking about 50 million people here, even if we only get 10% to return home then we have already doubled the population of our little isle.

Or we could ask them to put us up in their spare room.

MagicMarker

Someone tell me when to stop...

28064212

The hardest part is even knowing where to begin picking apart an idea that is that absurd. MagicMarker's post said everything that really needed to be said, but just in case you need further reasons for why that is just about the stupidest idea possible:

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I was looking up the population Demographies of America and came upon something very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American.
Apperantly 36,495,800 people in America claim Irish descent with another circa 14,000,000 in Britain. Now this got me thinking.

Why doesn't the Irish government pull an Israel and give all those exiles an Irish passport to try to coax them to come back to Ireland with the promise of imporved wages and conditiones to their current host nation?

First of all, you've opened up an inherent contradiction in your first two paragraphs. "Try to coax them with improved wages and conditions over their current host nation"? We don't have better wages and conditions than America and Britain. If you're talking about offering better wages to immigrants than our own workers get for doing the same jobs, the unions would destroy you, not to mention the violation of labour laws.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Now I know what your saying they'll never come, but I'm talking about 50 million people here, even if we only get 10% to return home then we have already doubled the population of our little isle.

And whats more the current citizens will also benifite with better hospitals, schools, and an all round island motarway.

No, they won't. Even if this was a good idea (and it's not), it would be the current citizen's grandchildren (at the earliest) who would get the benefits, since, even in your magic land where more people = better productivity, the new facilities would have to be built after the new immigrants get here. An infrastructure doesn't spring up overnight. Which brings me rather neatly on to my next point. Where are all these immigrants going to fit into our current infrastructure? Our health and education systems are already overloaded, with more cuts to come. Who's going to move here only to have to wait years before they can get their kids into a school, or risk hospital waiting lists that will be decades long?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not at all, they will be bringing their manpower, and knowledge with them.
The money will come from the creation of new jobs.

Everybody can have a job, I would like to see a change in legislation that requires all people on social welfare to sign on for employment.
Say that shop down the street ? You may think it might only need one person but there is no reason why three or four people couldn't work in it at the states expense.

Manpower? The last thing Ireland needs is more manpower, that should be obvious to anyone.

There are plenty of reasons why three or four couldn't work in the shop. To start with:

• It introduces more work at a management level, they have to try and organise a fair rota of hours
• It introduces more work for the government who have to try and place all these people and deal with all the issues that arise from it
• Why will that shop continue to employ the original worker when they can just get a state worker for a fraction of the price?
• Where's the incentive for someone on welfare to get a job that isn't state sponsored?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Of course I'm serious !
The government is only as good as it's people and the more people we bring in the easier it will be to shape this country into a proper Western European country with a proud history.

This doesn't even make sense. You want to import Americans to make a "proper Western European country"?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

When you introduce legislation it isn't about what people want. you know what ? Hey, I don't want to pay taxes but I must because that is the law.
These people will have to work to recieve a dole, no work, no dole.

oh, and This isn't about making job fairies it is about maturing Ireland as a country and improving the economy at the same time. If you live in Dublin you will notice that the city is not clean, I would guess that there are 1,000 street cleaners in dublin. We could easily triple that if we introduce these measures.
Wouldn't you like to live in a clean city ?

So these skilled workers that are going to magically materialise in Ireland on a promise of better wages and conditions are going to work as street cleaners? More contradictions

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If you increase productivity the economy will follow, not all these people will sign onto the dole, the majority of them will get jobs.
You seem to be of the opinion that 5 million people are going to sign on overnight.

The immigration of 5 million people does not in any way imply an increase in productivity. Why will the majority of them get jobs? Jobs that they apparently couldn't get in their home countries? And where? Will they employ each other? Are they going to have jobs organised before they get here? Will they be gotten ahead of the 400,000 unemployed already here?

Even if all of those things weren't obvious reasons not to do it, why does your plan stop at people of Irish descent? Why not just throw open our borders with a promise of better wages and conditions to everyone?