Irish Aliyah ?

Iwasfrozen

28064212 wrote: »

First of all, you've opened up an inherent contradiction in your first two paragraphs. "Try to coax them with improved wages and conditions over their current host nation"? We don't have better wages and conditions than America and Britain. If you're talking about offering better wages to immigrants than our own workers get for doing the same jobs, the unions would destroy you, not to mention the violation of labour laws.

Yes, we do have better wages and working conditions then Britain and America. Take a look at this index. It outlines Human development in areas such as education, buying power and political freedom. You will notice we are no.5 while Britain and America are numbers 16 and 12 respectively.
Working conditions and wages will stay the same for the new workers as they were for the old.

28064212 wrote:

No, they won't. Even if this was a good idea (and it's not), it would be the current citizen's grandchildren (at the earliest) who would get the benefits, since, even in your magic land where more people = better productivity, the new facilities would have to be built after the new immigrants get here. An infrastructure doesn't spring up overnight. Which brings me rather neatly on to my next point. Where are all these immigrants going to fit into our current infrastructure? Our health and education systems are already overloaded, with more cuts to come. Who's going to move here only to have to wait years before they can get their kids into a school, or risk hospital waiting lists that will be decades long?

These people won't arrive overnight, they will slowly trickle in. This will give us time to build the infastructure after first judging the level of interest form overseas.

28064212 wrote:

Manpower? The last thing Ireland needs is more manpower, that should be obvious to anyone.


There are plenty of reasons why three or four couldn't work in the shop. To start with:

• It introduces more work at a management level, they have to try and organise a fair rota of hours
• It introduces more work for the government who have to try and place all these people and deal with all the issues that arise from it
• Why will that shop continue to employ the original worker when they can just get a state worker for a fraction of the price?
• Where's the incentive for someone on welfare to get a job that isn't state sponsored?

1. No plan is perfect, there will be down sides but the extra managerial work will be more then worth it in the long run.
2. What makes you think that there will be issues ? If the benifacter doesn't work then they won't get paid simple as.
3.The benifacters will be sub diveded among businesses at a local level, not only will this solve the division problem but it will also give small business an advantage over the larger businesses that could otherwise outsell them, as is happening now.
4. More money, the same incentives there are now.

28064212 wrote:

This doesn't even make sense. You want to import Americans to make a "proper Western European country"?

No, I want to give Irish people and people who identify themselves as historically Irish a chance to return to Ireland if they wish and strengthen us at the same time.

28064212 wrote:

So these skilled workers that are going to magically materialise in Ireland on a promise of better wages and conditions are going to work as street cleaners? More contradictions

That was of course an example of the unemployed. Of course the people who return will find work based on their qualifications.

28064212 wrote:

The immigration of 5 million people does not in any way imply an increase in productivity. Why will the majority of them get jobs? Jobs that they apparently couldn't get in their home countries? And where? Will they employ each other? Are they going to have jobs organised before they get here? Will they be gotten ahead of the 400,000 unemployed already here?

Irelands problem is and always has been, since the famine, it's low population by increasing our population we can improve infastructure, broadband connections and motarways. All of which will help attract TMC's which will inturn lead to more employment and higher productivity. Do you understand ?
What's more when we are hit by another economic downturn in the future (it is certain) our investment in infastructure will undoubtedly pay off.

28064212 wrote:

Even if all of those things weren't obvious reasons not to do it, why does your plan stop at people of Irish descent? Why not just throw open our borders with a promise of better wages and conditions to everyone?

I tought this would have been obvious even to someone as averse to the idea as yourself. Many of the Irish diaspora identify themselves with our culture and our sports, this will minimize the cultural tension of so many immigrants.

Tricity Bendix

You're not wrong on the potential benefit of tapping into the Irish diaspora as a resource, and you're not wrong on welfare to work schemes as a means of reducing long term unemployment, but surely you must recognise that your ideas are a little on the extreme side?

I don't know if you're aware of the Global Irish Economic Forum which took place not too long ago, but it centred around how the Irish abroad can help us out of the recession. You might want to give it a look: http://www.globalirishforum.ie/

johnnyskeleton

MagicMarker wrote: »

Someone tell me when to stop...

Stop.

One of my pet hates is people who think they have opinions purely because they know internet slang.

Iwasfrozen

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

You're not wrong on the potential benefit of tapping into the Irish diaspora as a resource, and you're not wrong on welfare to work schemes as a means of reducing long term unemployment, but surely you must recognise that your ideas are a little on the extreme side?

Sometimes ideas that are seen as "extreme" are needed. But to my mind extreme ideas are simply ideas that are not in the wide spectrum of thinking. So in that way, any new idea will be labeled as extreme.

Tricity Bendix

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sometimes ideas that are seen as "extreme" are needed. But to my mind extreme ideas are simply ideas that are not in the wide spectrum of thinking. So in that way, any new idea will be labeled as extreme.

By extreme I meant you're taking a rational fact and twist it into an irrational prescription. Mass migration into a country with high unemployment is not a good idea.

Iwasfrozen

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

By extreme I meant you're taking a rational fact and twist it into an irrational prescription. Mass migration into a country with high unemployment is not a good idea.

Not a good idea if the host country is not capable of supporting it's future inhabitants, I see no reason why with a little preperation Ireland is not capable of hosting it's new citizens.

MagicMarker

You want to double the population of the country, where are they going to live?