I'm Confused

PrestonDaly · 09-10-2009 10:45am #1

I am confused about something.

1.5 millions civilains have been killed in Iraq since the UK/US invasion in 2003, they never get a mention.

A soldier gets whacked and we get a sob story, the mother yapping on about how he was "such a good boy". Wait a minute love, your son joined the army on his own accord, no one forced him to pick up a rifle and go overseas to "defend freedom".

The coffin will be paraded through the local town and we will get various hero stories. In all only 150 or so British soldiers have been "offed" in Iraq.

I'm sick of the propaganda.

humanji · 09-10-2009 11:17am

PrestonDaly wrote: »

I am confused about something.

1.5 millions civilains have been killed in Iraq since the UK/US invasion in 2003, they never get a mention.

A soldier gets whacked and we get a sob story, the mother yapping on about how he was "such a good boy". Wait a minute love, your son joined the army on his own accord, no one forced him to pick up a rifle and go overseas to "defend freedom".

The coffin will be paraded through the local town and we will get various hero stories. In all only 150 or so British soldiers have been "offed" in Iraq.

I'm sick of the propaganda.

Then don't read it?

09-10-2009 11:26am

PrestonDaly wrote: »

A soldier gets whacked and we get a sob story, the mother yapping on about how he was "such a good boy". Wait a minute love, your son joined the army on his own accord, no one forced him to pick up a rifle and go overseas to "defend freedom".

Every one of them who puts a bullet through the head of some Taliban fighter or some Iraqi terrorist is a hero, and is a freedom fighter.

The 1.5 million is sad too by the way...why did Hussein and Al Qaeda bring all this down bring all this horror down on their own people?

PrestonDaly · 09-10-2009 11:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

why did Hussein and Al Qaeda bring all this down bring all this horror down on their own people?

What connection did Hussein have to Al Qaeda???

09-10-2009 11:31am

PrestonDaly wrote: »

What connection did Hussein have to Al Qaeda???

I didn't say they were connected at all. I identified them as two seperate parties.

Euro_Kraut · 09-10-2009 11:32am

Deleted User wrote: »

Every one of them who puts a bullet through the head of some Taliban fighter or some Iraqi terrorist is a hero, and is a freedom fighter.

Its all a matter of perspective. Many in Britain in the 1920s would have said the same about the Black and Tans. Most people here would a very different view. I'm sure the same conflict exists in the minds of Iraqis and Afghans.

Blanket statements like yours, while succinct and seductive, ignore the complexity of warfare.

09-10-2009 11:33am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Blanket statements like yours, while succinct and seductive, ignore the complexity of warfare.

I appreciate that and you are right. I think I was reacting to the OPs glib reference to soldiers getting 'whacked' and 'offed' and mothers 'yapping'.

PrestonDaly · 09-10-2009 11:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't say they were connected at all. I identified them as two seperate parties.

So what did Hussein do to "deserve" the invasion? Remember the WMD's were made up by Western propaganda experts.

09-10-2009 11:44am

When theres a car accident in the al shaki area of baghdad and someone goes to hospital or is killed and this is an example of what is regularally mentioned as one of the main headlines on 2fm...then I'll be complaining.
If theres a car accident in ballsbridge and it's mentioned on 2fm then I won't be complaining.

If theres a war on somewhere and irish peace keepers get killed and this get mentioned on 2fm as a main news item,I'd not be surprised obviously.
If theres several people killed in that area every day and theres no irish involved,then I'd not expect it to be daily news over here.

Same applies to the UK media,their soldiers are involved so obviously they do report their deaths.It's a newsworthy item there unlike the traffic accident in the al shaki district.
They do regularally report civilian deaths aswell in both Iraq and afghanistan.The totals for both are often mentioned,just not every time.

PrestonDaly · 09-10-2009 11:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

When theres a car accident in the al shaki area of baghdad and someone goes to hospital or is killed and this is an example of what is regularally mentioned as one of the main headlines on 2fm...then I'll be complaining.
If theres a car accident in ballsbridge and it's mentioned on 2fm then I won't be complaining.

Huge flaws in your theory, it all depends on the issue involved.

Boskowski · 09-10-2009 12:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Every one of them who puts a bullet through the head of some Taliban fighter or some Iraqi terrorist is a hero, and is a freedom fighter.

The 1.5 million is sad too by the way...why did Hussein and Al Qaeda bring all this down bring all this horror down on their own people?

You sure have your facts right man. Ffs, it's a only a few years since this happened. How could someones view be so distorted? What exactly did Saddam Hussein do again and who started bombing & invading based on some totally makey uppey bogus ****?

09-10-2009 12:18pm

PrestonDaly wrote: »

Huge flaws in your theory, it all depends on the issue involved.

I usually don't engage with one line replies.
However just for yourself

I'll repeat, I stated as a fact the established norms in news reporting.
Norms not exceptions,if it makes you happier knowing that it's not deliberate,it's just normal.

ednwireland · 09-10-2009 12:18pm

PrestonDaly wrote: »

I am confused about something.

1.5 millions civilains have been killed in Iraq since the UK/US invasion in 2003, they never get a mention.

A soldier gets whacked and we get a sob story, the mother yapping on about how he was "such a good boy". Wait a minute love, your son joined the army on his own accord, no one forced him to pick up a rifle and go overseas to "defend freedom".

The coffin will be paraded through the local town and we will get various hero stories. In all only 150 or so British soldiers have been "offed" in Iraq.

I'm sick of the propaganda.

agree totally again stopped wacthing uk news because of it
there is a propaganda war going in uk media to justify the wars in iraq and afghanistan, because without it they would pull out, noticed the huge increase in advertising for the TA and services on UK telly ? BBC and ITV particularly bad, Channel 4 news better

PrestonDaly · 09-10-2009 12:19pm

realcam wrote: »

You sure have your facts right man. Ffs, it's a only a few years since this happened. How could someones view be so distorted? What exactly did Saddam Hussein do again and who started bombing & invading based on some totally makey uppey bogus ****?

I was shocked at the points this fella made, the new modern "informed" citizen, so informed that they forget the old propaganda as soon as the new "upgrade" comes along.

PomBear · 09-10-2009 12:23pm

The British and Americans that die over there are soldiers that die in war. Sad albeit but they sign with a large risk of being killled in combat. Now how many of them 1.5 million can you imagine were armed and ready to kill americans or brits?

AARRRGH · 09-10-2009 12:31pm

PomBear wrote: »

how many of them 1.5 million can you imagine were armed and ready to kill americans or brits?

Very few of them I would think, however even if they were all armed, I wouldn't hold that against them as their country has been invaded by a bunch of oil hungry thieves.

09-10-2009 12:44pm

realcam wrote: »

What exactly did Saddam Hussein do again

Where do you want to start? Gassing thousands of Kurds. Or did they havbe 'yappy' mothers and deserve to get 'offed'?

realcam wrote: »

who started bombing & invading based on some totally makey uppey bogus ****?

Is this a quiz? Is the answer Saddam Hussein, Kuwait, and the bogus **** was that it belonged to Iraq?

PomBear · 09-10-2009 12:45pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

Very few of them I would think, however even if they were all armed, I wouldn't hold that against them as their country has been invaded by a bunch of oil hungry thieves.

Wel if they were armed, under the conduct of war, they can protect themselves and their country. US and Britain forces are some of the biggest terrorists the world has ever seen

anonymous_joe · 09-10-2009 12:54pm

Is it really that many? Shocking figure.

AARRRGH · 09-10-2009 12:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Where do you want to start? Gassing thousands of Kurds. Or did they havbe 'yappy' mothers and deserve to get 'offed'?

That has nothing to do with the US/UK invasion.

I always find it funny that so many people have a problem with some of the evil things Saddam has done (mainly because "gassing" sounds dramatic) but he was an angel compared to the previous leaders of the US.

anonymous_joe · 09-10-2009 12:59pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the US/UK invasion.

I always find it funny that so many people have a problem with some of the evil things Saddam has done (mainly because "gassing" sounds dramatic) but he was an angel compared to the previous leaders of the US.

He was a horrendous dictator who butchered thousands of his citizens who lived under a reign of terror.

I don't think the UK or US are as bad as he was, though the war causes as much suffering.

AARRRGH · 09-10-2009 1:03pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

He was a horrendous dictator who butchered thousands of his citizens who lived under a reign of terror.

I don't think the UK or US are as bad as he was, though the war causes as much suffering.

I agree Saddam Hussein killed a few thousand people, but... how many hundreds of thousands/millions of innocent people have the US/UK directly or indirectly (read: sneakily) killed over the last two decades?

It's like the Israeli/Palestine conflict. People always talk about the suicide bombs because they're so dramatic, but the Israelis have killed way more Palestinians.

09-10-2009 1:05pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

I always find it funny that so many people have a problem with some of the evil things Saddam has done (mainly because "gassing" sounds dramatic)

Not sure about the humour or drama. I don't think the Kurds got those subtleties. As long as the Brits and the Yanks patrol the borders, I'm happy that the world is a better place. Gimme the land of the free and the home of the brave over Sharia Law any day.

09-10-2009 1:06pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

People always talk about the suicide bombs because they're so dramatic, but the Israelis have killed way more Palestinians.

That might be because the Israelis are better, with stronger allies. What should they do, swap the tanks and artillery muscle for slingshots and petrol bombs to make it fair?

ednwireland · 09-10-2009 1:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That might be because the Israelis are better, with stronger allies. What should they do, swap the tanks and artillery muscle for slingshots and petrol bombs to make it fair?

stop killing people , might be a start

AARRRGH · 09-10-2009 1:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That might be because the Israelis are better, with stronger allies. What should they do, swap the tanks and artillery muscle for slingshots and petrol bombs to make it fair?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying people tend to have poor perspective on things.

A silly example from Ireland is everyone is furious at the John O'Donoghue scandal, yet NAMA which is a waaay bigger problem (100,000's versus 10,000,000,000's) doesn't quite get the same emotional response.

Just like the larger outrage against suicide bombers, rather than the more deadly missiles and bombs.

If ya get me.

Anyway, I think we all agree violence and suffering is terrible, whoever is doing it.

09-10-2009 1:17pm

ednwireland wrote: »

stop killing people , might be a start

You referring to the Israelis or the Palestinians? It's so hard to tell, they both seem to like it, and they even elect people they think can do it better...

AARRRGH · 09-10-2009 1:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You referring to the Israelis or the Palestinians? It's so hard to tell, they both seem to like it, and they even elect people they think can do it better...

Come on, you're not being fair.

The Palestinians were and still are being kicked off their land.

It's very clear who is the aggressor and who is the (I'd prefer to use a better word but can't find one) "victim".

Coillte_Bhoy · 09-10-2009 1:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You referring to the Israelis or the Palestinians? It's so hard to tell, they both seem to like it, and they even elect people they think can do it better...

Don't be so bloody childish. You know well who he is referring to.

09-10-2009 1:26pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

The Palestinians were and still are being kicked off their land.

"Their" land or the land seized by Israel in wars that sought to crush that country? And kicked off like all the Jews that were expelled from Arab States into Israel a few decades back, which was a very significant factor in the problem now.

But it's all been argued elsewhere.

anonymous_joe · 09-10-2009 1:28pm

AARRRGH wrote: »

I agree Saddam Hussein killed a few thousand people, but... how many hundreds of thousands/millions of innocent people have the US/UK directly or indirectly (read: sneakily) killed over the last two decades?

It's like the Israeli/Palestine conflict. People always talk about the suicide bombs because they're so dramatic, but the Israelis have killed way more Palestinians.

Iraq when/if fixed will be a far better place than it was. Whether the price is worth paying is debatable, but Saddam was evil. The Yanks and Brits aren't. They might not be shining knights or anything, but they're not evil.

ednwireland wrote: »

stop killing people , might be a start

They're involved in a war. Just or otherwise. They're also better at it than their enemies.

AARRRGH wrote: »

Come on, you're not being fair.

The Palestinians were and still are being kicked off their land.

It's very clear who is the aggressor and who is the (I'd prefer to use a better word but can't find one) "victim".

Was Israel the aggressor in the 1940s? Or 1967? Or for the Yom Kippur war?

I'm Confused

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