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Government "looking more like a planned €6bn reduction " in borrowing / spending ?

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    #32
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    pearcider wrote: »
    A quick glance at our european neighbours shows we can take a lot more.
    You don't even have to look outside our country, just look back to the good old 80s. Worked a treat then. :rolleyes:

    What would you suggest? 60% marginal? 70%? Take every penny about €80k?


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    #33
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    A billion to the private sector contractors for PPARS, a third of a billion to property developers for the pointless 'decentralisation' scam, more again lost in damage to the public sector's knowledge capital as Dublin workers were replaced by FF-voting, job-grabbing culchies. PULSE? - how much did the contractors get?

    A well balanced NewDubliner. Chip on both shoulders.


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    #34
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    ghost_ie wrote: »
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    For example, say we fire, at random, half the public service. quote]

    If you were to fire half the nurses, the HSE would forced to avail even more of agency nurses whose wages are higher and who can pick and choose where and what hours they work. Also, I assume the agency they work for would charge for supplying the nurses. On top of this, you would add to those claiming the dole
    Ah yes, but this would be presented as being 'public sector reform' and securing of 'flexible work practices'.


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    #35
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    pearcider wrote: »
    How much did house prices rise by? ;)
    House prices and wage rates are not linked in any meaningful fashion.


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    #36
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    House prices and wage rates are not linked in any meaningful fashion.

    that's completely naive.....and you are putting forward as a Political alternative?


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    #37
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    that's completely naive.....and you are putting forward as a Political alternative?
    Compare a graph of house prices rises 2000 to 2006 and a graph of wage rises in the same period, then get back to us.


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    #38
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Compare a graph of house prices rises 2000 to 2006 and a graph of wage rises in the same period, then get back to us.

    if your point is that house price increases were far higher than wage increases then say that

    but that's very different from
    House prices and wage rates are not linked in any meaningful fashion.

    you are speaking like a veteran politician already!


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    #39
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    if your point is that house price increases were far higher than wage increases then say that
    :rolleyes:


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    #40
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    definitely a veteran politician!


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    #41
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    definitely a veteran politician!
    It was abundantly clear what I was saying. I've already had the peanut gallery literally begging to be let off the hook on the thread in politics, my advice would be to stick to the topic of the thread and not try to start an argument. ;)


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    #42
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    It was abundantly clear what I was saying.

    not to me it isn't

    why dont you clarify....


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    #43
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    House prices in Ireland for the last ten years and wage rates in Ireland for the last ten years are not linked in any meaningful fashion.
    There you go.


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    #44
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »

    Originally Posted by Amhran Nua
    House prices in Ireland for the last ten years and wage rates in Ireland for the last ten years are not linked in any meaningful fashion.

    ah...thats not what you said; you said:
    House prices and wage rates are not linked in any meaningful fashion.

    if you had posted the former I would have seen where you were coming from. The latter suggests something quite different.

    besides even if the increases in house prices are far more than the increases in wages, it does not mean they are not linked....for starters mortgage affordability (at elast in theory) is based on a multiple of salary not a one-to-one relationship

    certainly I believe the clamour for more and more wage increases was related to the ever increasing price of a house


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    #45
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    if you had posted the former I would have seen where you were coming from.
    So eh, what country and general time period (the only adjustments I made to that comment) did you think I was referring to?
    Riskymove wrote: »
    certainly I believe the clamour for more and more wage increases was related to the ever increasing price of a house
    No, the clamour for more wage increases on the public sector side at least was to keep up with presumed increases in the private sector. Is that not what benchmarking was all about. Its only now that we hear the cry of costly mortgages, and I'd be very interested to see what percentage of those mortgages are for non PPR purposes.


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    #46
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    So eh, what country and general time period (the only adjustments I made to that comment) did you think I was referring to?

    places and times did not come into it. based on your post I interpreted it as a simple statement that "house prices and wage rates are not linked"

    I believe they are linked

    however you are now saying that you are talking about statistics rather than economic theory

    No, the clamour for more wage increases on the public sector side at least was to keep up with presumed increases in the private sector. Is that not what benchmarking was all about.

    oh, the Unions wanted money for that too alright, but it was mainly "keep everyone happy" bertie ploy rather than a union initiative
    Its only now that we hear the cry of costly mortgages, and I'd be very interested to see what percentage of those mortgages are for non PPR purposes.

    if you are saying you did not hear people moaning about hous eprices or how much their mortgage was for the last decade...fair enough

    in relation to PPR...figures are difficult to produce obviously but I'd be pretty certain that the majority of younger public servants do not have numerous properties...some older or higher level may have been in a position to speculate (like some private)


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    #47
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    places and times did not come into it.
    So what you're saying is that the thread should be retitled to "Irish Government in 2009 "looking more like a planned €6bn reduction " in borrowing / spending to and from the exchequer ? is that it. Or were you just failing to get in a cheap dig about my group by being pedantic, and wasting everyone's time and bandwidth in the process.
    Riskymove wrote: »
    if you are saying you did not hear people moaning about hous eprices or how much their mortgage was for the last decade...fair enough
    That would be an easier argument to defeat alright.
    Riskymove wrote: »
    in relation to PPR...figures are difficult to produce obviously but I'd be pretty certain that the majority of younger public servants do not have numerous properties...some older or higher level may have been in a position to speculate (like some private)
    Hows that, in terms of equivalency the perceived security of public sector jobs gave them an immediate advantage in the lending free for all of the past decade. Figures haven't been researched yet but it wouldn't be too hard to put that together.


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    #48
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that the thread should be retitled to "Irish Government in 2009 "looking more like a planned €6bn reduction " in borrowing / spending to and from the exchequer ? is that it. Or were you just failing to get in a cheap dig about my group by being pedantic, and wasting everyone's time and bandwidth in the process.

    alright so you just dont want to see how you might have misrepresented what you were saying and its all my fault etc.....grand
    Hows that, in terms of equivalency the perceived security of public sector jobs gave them an immediate advantage in the lending free for all of the past decade. Figures haven't been researched yet but it wouldn't be too hard to put that together.

    well as I say i am talking about younger members who have been first time buyers over the last decade or so and have quite enough to do handling that mortgage without buying more property

    most public servants I know do not have more than the primary residence, indeed some dont have any..but thats the same for the private sector people I know


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    #49
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well as I say i am talking about younger members who have been first time buyers over the last decade or so and have quite enough to do handling that mortgage without buying more property
    In an environment of double digit percentage capital appreciation on properties they probably felt it was a safe bet though, lord knows everyone was telling them that, and no doubt the banks felt that their jobs were likewise a safe bet. We don't have the figures at the end of the day, but I'd be very interested to find out.


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    #50
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    Everyone is so excited over Nama. 20-30 years is not long for the gov to hold assets held in lieu of a bailout is not a big deal. These assets will probably be used to fund civil servant pensions in the future and probably will be sold in time anyway. Regarding taxation etc. The private sector creates jobs (They generate wealth for the country) whereas the public sector are service providers. There will be no recovery until the private sector feel secure regarding taxes etc. It is the uncertainty that is stalling everything. Certainly with vat rates so much higher than the UK, off the wall carbon taxes, etc etc, one can see that the present Gov needs to be voted out. Its time for a fresh approach. FF have presided over the boom/bust and are rewarded with being kept in power.?


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    #51
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    i have a feeling in the december budget that the taxpayer will get taxed again to make up for the pay of public servants,the policticans will put on crocodile tears when saying they will take another 10 percent paycut*which in honesty means fu#k all to their massive pay packages*,diesel will probably get an slight increase since its bit cheaper than petrol at the mo,theres talks of cutting child benefit,which makes me think they are trying to say is,well we cant afford to hire people to means test it so we do it this way....


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    #52
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    Riskymove wrote: »
    alright so you just dont want to see how you might have misrepresented what you were saying and its all my fault etc.....grand

    In fairness the context of the original comment was quite clear to me however you were entirely within your rights to seek clarification if it was not clear to you.

    There was no misrepresentation just a misunderstanding.


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