Klaus wants opt-out on Lisbon Treaty

meglome

evercloserunion wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBRCkaVoAM

Fixed.

It's like watching a bad conspiracy video. American news both frightens and amuses me.

P. Breathnach

evercloserunion wrote: »

Most of the American and right-wing media are severely Euroskeptic. It's not all that surprising I suppose, since a weakened EU is in the US's interests.

Check this out... great laugh

That is an amazing piece of journalism, particularly as CNN is not even the most right-wing channel. What did Fox have to say?

I am taken with the idea that the yes campaign should have used this: it might have led to an increased majority for the treaty.

finbar10

Noreen1 wrote: »

That sounds reasonable, though I'm not too sure that the 2-3 year delay would work - it would simply allow the offending legislation to be passed before the referendum, or possibly delay the passing of passing of necessary legislation, and create a whole new set of problems. There is also the issue of possible prolonged propaganda campaigns to consider...

On the other hand, too short a time frame would permit far too much interference in the day to day running of the state.

Personally, I'd suggest a 12 month delay before holding a referendum might be adequate? It should allow any temporary fits of public pique to pass, hopefully.

Noreen

With only a 12 month delay it would be very easy to propose a motion to hold a new general election. It would make it straightforward for an unpopular government to be kicked out. That's not necessarily a good thing! Politicians might start thinking in even shorter time frames than they do currently (knowing they could be kicked out in a year) and not embark on necessary measures that might be unpopular in the short term. A lot depends on the maturity of the electorate. As Scofflaw mentioned the Swiss system works well. But we're not Swiss! Many of our political problems I think come not from our system but are just a reflection of the electorate. I'd hope special interests and lobby groups wouldn't dominate the process. I'd start by making a citizens' initiative mechanism quite restrictive with a relatively long time delay and I'd also make it quite hard to alter the mechanism itself (maybe 2/3 or 3/4 majority required to modify it). If the citizens really wanted to remove restrictions on the mechanism they could (e.g. get rid of the time delay or whatever) but just not too easily. And if a constitutional amendment is urgently needed then the government still would have the power to call an immediate referendum.

Funglegunk

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That is an amazing piece of journalism, particularly as CNN is not even the most right-wing channel. What did Fox have to say?

I am taken with the idea that the yes campaign should have used this: it might have led to an increased majority for the treaty.

Fox didn't say anything: it didn't happen in America and it can't be used to attack Obama so... :P

But yes I've seen that Lou Dobbs clip before. Pretty amazing that that stuff actually gets broadcast. Makes you glad for RTE...

vinylbomb

Wow, thats some fantastic stuff from CNN there.

I believe Goebbels et al used to produce stuff that wasn't far from its like when he was working for a certain right-leaning chap a few years ago

ejmaztec

I think that the US considers that it has more sway over a shambolic dis-united Europe, and they've always been sniffing around their roots.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

vinylbomb wrote: »

Wow, thats some fantastic stuff from CNN there.

I believe Goebbels et al used to produce stuff that wasn't far from its like when he was working for a certain right-leaning chap a few years ago

you know it was national socialism, yeah?

ejmaztec

...and the fight continues........

http://www.radio.cz/en/news/121371#2
Government prepares for constitutional clash

The government is prepared for a constitutional confrontation with President Václav Klaus if he persists in blocking the Lisbon treaty, the magazine Respekt reported on Monday. It says the government is considering asking the Czech Constitutional Court to rule whether President Klaus can continue to refuse signing the EU’s reforming treaty if his current demands are met and the court rules that the treaty is not in conflict with Czech law. Respekt says the government would ask the court's permission for the prime minister to ratify the treaty if it ruled against the president. The government is prepared to inform EU leaders of its stance at a summit at the end of this month, it adds.
President Klaus suggested in an interview on Saturday that the Lisbon treaty had gone too far to be stopped and that he could not delay ratification until British elections next spring.

molloyjh

meglome wrote: »

Fixed.

It's like watching a bad conspiracy video. American news both frightens and amuses me.

That's the funniest news article I've ever seen! I especially love the bit at the end where we're told the Europe wants to set it's own policy outside of American policy! Heaven forbid!!!!

vinylbomb

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you know it was national socialism, yeah?

I do.


"Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right"


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Macha

Ganley weighs in through his favourite mouthpiece the Wall Street Journal (shock..)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704335904574498932606872954.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I particularly like this piece of melodrama:

Polish President Lech Kaczynski followed, his hand literally shaking as he put pen to paper—Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso standing behind him—and ratified the text.

So much for going gently into the night..

marco_polo

Case was adjourned by the Constitutional Court today until next week.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/abec533c-c325-11de-8eca-00144feab49a.html

Daftendirekt

marco_polo wrote: »

Case was adjourned by the Constitutional Court today until next week.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/abec533c-c325-11de-8eca-00144feab49a.html

Looks promising.

The Eurosceptics don't sound too pleased anyway.

Steviemak

At the EU council meeting this evening countries have agreed to the Czech Republics request for opt outs.

It's now in Klaus's hands.

Daftendirekt

I wonder what the Czech Parliament make of all this?

Amberman

oscarBravo wrote: »

More to the point, what makes him think he has any right to single-handedly dictate his country's stance on it?

Oscar...BRAVO! There should be a once and for all referendum!

Uhh...hang on...maybe not once and for all. How about best 2 out of 3, just to be sure.

That might work.

How dare this elected representative make decisions...thats NOT what the EU is all about!

nesf

Amberman wrote: »

Oscar...BRAVO! There should be a once and for all referendum!

Uhh...hang on...maybe not once and for all. How about best 2 out of 3, just to be sure.

That might work.

How dare this elected representative make decisions...thats NOT what the EU is all about!

Hey, please don't post this kind of crap on here. It's not adding anything to the conversation. If you want to argue that he is correct then provide an argument to support that, don't just string together a bunch of jibes at a user and post.

If you want to say he's correct in what he's doing, just say that and explain why you think that. Stuff like the above isn't constructive or useful.

Amberman

It wasn't a jibe...I totally agree with him.

Am I not allowed to say that?

nesf

Amberman wrote: »

It wasn't a jibe...I totally agree with him.

Am I not allowed to say that?

Ah ok, it looked like you were quoting oB out of context to make it seem like he was saying that the President didn't have the right to not sign legislation.

The Czech court has cleared the Treaty and Klaus says he wont oppose it, although its not known when he will sign it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8339464.stm

MarkK

Deleted User wrote: »

The Czech court has cleared the Treaty and Klaus says he wont oppose it, although its not known when he will sign it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8339464.stm

I won't be that surprised if Klaus finds something else to delay things.

After all the issue of the "opt out" suddenly appeared after the second Irish Referendum.
If he really thought it was a problem, he could have raised the issue a year ago.

Update: so he has signed, I'm glad to have been wrong.

jhegarty

He has signed the treaty.