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Infrastructure in the new Programme for Government
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Um..the piece of legislation you quote there is Irish legislation. It is the implementation of the European Energy Performance of Buildings Directive. You seem to be under the impression that every EU Directive is somehow 'forced' on Ireland The BER was actually introduced on 1st July 2008 for all new homes. Jan 1st 2009 was for all existing homes for sale or rent.
I am certainly under the impression that the Greens signed nothing into law in 2006 for implementation in 2008/2009 but that evidently does not stop them dishonestly claiming they did !!!
Most of the rest of that list is equally dishonest
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Sponge Bob, I don't see where in the list the Greens claim that they signed it into law. They oversaw the implementation. And I might add that the law was delayed by over 18 months by certain political circles close to the CIF but would have been delayed even further had the Greens not pressed for it. The Greens also pressed for sufficient funds to be set aside for SEI to implement the scheme properly.Sponge Bob wrote: »I am certainly under the impression that the Greens signed nothing into law in 2006 for implementation in 2008/2009 but that evidently does not stop them dishonestly claiming they did !!!
I'd certainly like to see you disprove them all.Sponge Bob wrote: »Most of the rest of that list is equally dishonest0 -
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Au contraire, I've already stated my claims. If you want to waste your time here disproving them, be my guest. Don't expect me to do your heavy lifting for you.Sponge Bob wrote: »It is your list, I challenge you to PROVE one of them because I am quite happy I can simply deconstruct any of that prattle0 -
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The Nissan Renault Scam
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1019862_ireland-esb-and-renault-nissan-announce-alliance
April 3rd, 2009Energy Minister Eamon Ryan announced a new alliance that will put electric cars on Irish motorways in two years.
So that would be by April 2011
This is but one of 27 Partnership deals that Nissan entered before they announced the Nissan Leaf ...due in 2010
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/01/2010-nissan-leaf-electric-car-in-person-in-depth-and-u-s-b/Nissan says it has established 27 partnerships with local governments around the world, and more are on the way. If you're outside of such areas, Nissan says it won't discourage you from becoming an owner/lessee, but obviously home charging will need to be sufficient.
Finding Fuel
How will Leaf drivers find these public charging stations? Every example will be equipped with an integrated computer system that is connected to a GPS system and global data center, allowing the Leaf to display its "reachable area" on its sat-nav screen, as well as the location of nearby charging stations. That same advanced IT system can also communicate with the owner's smart phone, sending them emails to let them know their vehicle's state of charge, allow users to pre-cool or pre-warm the Leaf while it's charging (thus drawing power from the grid and not depleting the onboard batteries), and the system can even be programmed to charge in the middle-of-the-night to take advantage of lower energy costs.
I hope nobody told Ryan about this
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knipex
Out of curiosity what is the range of an electric car ? (real range using things like wipers and lights and window demisters and radios not the fantasy range) are you going to roll out stations close enough to suit that ?
THe Mitsubishi i-Miev has a range of 160kms. It's my understanding that the stations will be rolled out in Dublin first. Seriously, you would think that fossil fuel cars have limitless range the way you're talking.
Ryan specifically launched the Nissan Leaf with 'a vision' of electric cars on our "MOTORWAYS" by 2011 to quote Ryan, now we find the chargers will not be installed outside the M50 .
I suppose a towtruck could bring it back to Dublin all the same 0 -
Ah Sponge Bob, I said that they would start in Dublin. I didn't say they wouldn't put them outside Dublin as well.Sponge Bob wrote: »Ryan specifically launched the Nissan Leaf with 'a vision' of electric cars on our "MOTORWAYS" by 2011 to quote Ryan, now we find the chargers will not be installed outside the M50 .
I suppose a towtruck could bring it back to Dublin all the same
Personally I find the motorway comment, if that's what he said, a bit odd because at the moment the technology is such that petrol cars are actually more efficient on motorways, going at a steady speed. Perhaps he was referring to PHEVs, which are also a grid car.0 -
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I also said that policy framework is important for attracting investment. You have done nothing to refute my claim.No your initial post claimed full credit for the Greens. A claim that does not stand up.
Look, comments like this are unnecessary. Disagreement does not automatically mean the other person does not understand. I'm not interested in proving you don't understand, I'm interested in having a debate. I'm open to being proven wrong, and its always nice in a debate if both people are open to ideas.You still don't understand.
How will the transfer of some transport from fossil fuel to electricity not decrease imports, assuming we also increase indigenous supplies of electricity (ie renewables)?6 billion in energy imports which includes heating oil, diesel, petrol, gas etc. less than 3 billion of this is for electricity.
Moving cars from petrol and diesel to electricity will not change that total.
knipex, the modern petrol car is not efficient - it is about 20% efficient. BEVs are a lot more efficient, but you're right about power distribution systems Power plants are about 35% efficient, but then you have to factor in transmission losses. At the moment I'd say they're both at par.Look at the efficiency of a modern diesel engine.
Now look at the efficiency of a power generation plant.
The efficiency of power distribution systems (including transformation stages)
Look at the efficiency of a charging system the efficiency of the battery and the electric motors.
However, improvements are being made in the efficiency of transmission and a key point is that any improvements in the efficiency of a petrol/diesel car take about 10-15years to spread (time it takes to replace the national fleet). Whereas with BEVs, any improvement in electricity generation or transmission will be passed down the chain almost instantly.
There are other issues like the obviously increasing scarcity of oil and the fluctuations in price. Transport is a tricky one and electric vehicles will never replace a decently designed urban space with proper cycling and transport links to reduce dependency on private cars.
What price for oil are you taking? Factoring in carbon taxes? You have not provided any figures to back up your claims.And You call me a straw man. I agree with you that the costs are all up front. Its the level of those costs that you clearly do not understand. 5 million per MW output is orders of magnitude more expensive that gas, oil coal or nuclear. At 30% efficiency and a life of 25 years power generated by wind is much more expensive than power generated by gas coal or oil. The difference in capital costs more than covers the cost of the fuel...
As I've already said, most MW for future installation will be offshore.As for the pollution issue........ What is the greatest carbon sink in Ireland ? Where are wind farms installed ?
Are you trying to argue that fossil fuels are comparable with renewables in terms of other types of pollution? I didn't say that they were pollution free - another strawman (you seem to like to look at things in absolutes).Wind Turbines are energy intensive to manufacture, ship and install. They are not pollution free any more than they produce free power. I have looked for but failed to find any independent research looking at the true environmental cost of wind turbines from design to disposal but what little bits I have been able to find shows that they are far from pollution free.
Where is this independent research?Not silly just miss informed. So some independent research as to the true cost of wind power.
Again, go look at offshore - Ireland has 10 times the amount of sea area as it does land. We also don't have to go as far offshore as Germany and other countries to get decent load factors.Load factor is the critical issue regarding the feasibility of wind power and there are not an infinite number of sites where higher load factors are available.
Perhaps at the moment backup is required but with greater interconnection and demand management technology, baseload capacity can be reduced.Even with a 35% load factor there will be significant periods of low or no power availability. Blackouts are not acceptable so alternative generation capacity needs to be kept as a backup.
That doesn't make sense. At times when we have oversupply there is no reason why we cannot export wind energy.At the moment we are paying companies to build CGT generation plants purely to act as a backup for wind. As no business will invest in a power station when they are only allowed to sell power when their competitors (wind) cannot so we are paying them a capacity payment just to be available in case we need them...........
Wind without storage is not a reliable or secure power supply which is why it is worthless for exports.
This ignores the fact that many members states have EU obligations for final energy consumption to come from renewables. You're working purely off economics and ignoring the policy.It is also expensive which makes to uncompetitive in an export market.
Carrigaline, like any town, has local services and destinations that can be reached by bicycle if the will is there. Investment in cycle/pedestrian facilities will encourage people to leave their cars at home and walk or cycle instead. The plan also provides for facilities between Crosshaven and Carrigaline, a significant commuting route. The distance is only 5km - a very doable distance for cyclying to work.Have you ever actually been to Carrigaline ? Do you know what shift patterns are like in the area ?
More 'all or nothing' logic. I'm aware of the urban patterns in Amsterdam and how they differ from here. The reality is over 200,000 people commute less than 4kms to work every day in Ireland. Many could and would not commute by bicycle/walking/public transport but many would if the right incentives were put in place. You think Amsterdam doesn't have any self-employed plumbers?Do you have a problem with maps ? Look at Amsterdam and look where people live relative to where they work.
Look at Ireland and look at where people live relative to where they work.
Its not rocket science it involves look at the reality around you. A minority of people will be able to cycle to work the majority will not. Picking a figure of 150,000 based on the commute distance quoted in the census is a joke.
Imagine your a self employed plumber. What is your commute ?
A sales man ?
There are many reasons why a short commute would be recorded on the census but would prevent you cycling.
Oh but planning policy has to come from somewhere. I don't think the Mayor of Dublin should be directly in charge of planning but in charge of making policy that influences planning decisions I don't see why GDA planing policy should be set by government, as it currently is. I gave the example of Bordeaux of a city where a directly elected mayor has done excellent work with the city in terms of planning, public transport and other infrastructure.Having a politician in charge result in a transparent planning system ? That where we have been going wrong....
<snip>
Planning should be the responsibility of professionals with overall policy set by government.
? If you have something to say, say it. Electric cars will be charged at the person's house overnight.Oh this is an area i know a little about. So cars are going ts use charging stations overnight.... Very .......... convenient......
Source?A 3 minute charge is years away at best and drive efficiencies down even further resulting in more power wastage.
I'm not confused - it's just not as black and white as you like to make it out to be. Personally, I see PHEVs as the best solution if people want grid cars that will also have a decent range in the near future.You also seem to be confused on this topic. you tell me that electric cars are for urban use only then you have a discussion with Spongebob about motorway usage.
I disagree. I think that if charging stations are located in areas like shopping centre car parks, or places where people will be willing to stop off for more than 20 minutes, there is no problem.Based on current technology charging stations are a joke as charging times are two long.
It will work where you drive in for work, charge the car while in the office and then drive home but will not work like a petrol station as you previously implied. The range and refueling times mean that electric cars are only suitable for a small minority....
I was not claiming credit. Another poster asked for details on what the Green Party had achieved and I obliged. I am defending their positions but that does not mean you need to use such confrontational language.You were quite happy to make a post claiming allot of credit on their behalf. If you make claims like that then be prepared to defend them.
As I've already said, I don't mind claims being challenged. It is your tone that is aggressive and dismissive.You made claims, I challenged them and you call be aggressive.
Get a grip.
Source?The i-Miev will not do 160 kms in actual usage when you need to use lights, wipers and even want to turn on the radio.
Well, good luck to you when the diesel runs out.I drive a diesel car. I have a range of 1,100km per tank (in reall world driving) and takes less than 5 minutes to fill.
I didn't say we wouldn't reach that figure. I said we may not reach the figures or percentages of cities like Amsterdam of Copenhagen.You claimed a figure as fact that you now admit you may not reach. Now that's progress. Its also very expensive progress.. How much will the scheme cost again ?
According to SEI, we do not have particularly high electricity costs:How hard is this to understand ? The additional costs associated with wind energy is what causes the difference between wholesale costs (ie the cost of a MW of electricity coming out of Money-point) and the cost charged to the consumer.Using purchasing power parities, Ireland is cheaper than the average in the EU for domestic electricity in the two highest consumption bands and specifically in the highest consumption band (band DE) 13% below the average and in the second highest consumption band (band DD) 2% below.
Where are your stats/source for overall efficiencies remaining the same?Load factors do improve off shore but so do costs. They increase dramatically for both installation and maintenance so overall efficiencies are the same. Off shore wind power is actually more expensive to produce than on shore.
Yes, and say €2m/MW for offshore.Are you willing to accept an installed cost for wing of 1.5 million per MW ?
Offshore farms have seen average load factors of 35-40% - will you factor that in?Are you willing to accept an average load factor of 25 to 30% ?
Well, at the moment backup supply must exist but demand management will significantly reduce required back-up capacity. Also, how much capacity already exists and what are the costs for maintaining capacity, even if it isn't used?Do you accept that wind power is neither reliable or secure and a backup supply must exist ? Do you accept that this back up must be paid for ?
I have discussed this with SEI and each BER assessor is individually checked twice a year with regular random checks on the BER certificate results themselves. Do you have any other proof of the impact of the alleged lack of checks and balances?The conflict of interest remains and there are very little checks and balances in place. If you don't believe me ask SEI just how many inspected there are monitoring the BER inspectors ?0 -
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