Green Party to stay in Government

turgon

brianthebard wrote: »

Proof?

We are thinking of the same Labour party here, right?

The same Labour party that has Trade Union delegates go to its conferences?

Their vote is based on these Unions, who want a 3.5% increase in public sector wages and who are now involved in a campaign to stop any cuts in government services.

peasant

MikeC101 wrote: »

On a more serious note - surely we must cut *some* of the social welfare bill?

We must cut something pretty much everywhere, there are no sacred cows, we can't afford them.

The problem is though (the way I see it anyway) that the corrupt shower that is FF has a) caused this mess in the first place, b) lost all moral authority to lord it over us any longer and lastly c) has lost the trust of the nation to get it right.

So any and all cuts that FF will propose (necessary as they are) will be opposed by those affected. In order to avoid massive public discontent and crippling strikes, FF will weasel through with half hearted and ill placed measures that look like they're "doing something", all the while prolonging the agony. They will not save this country. They will just hang on long enough until the next orderly election places the real work on somebody elses shoulders, wash their hands off it and they'll be back in power once the pain is over.

This is the mast that the Green Party has just nailed their colours to.
Fair play to them for getting some important concessions in the new and improved PfG ...but it will all be in vain, pissed in the wind. FF will ride over them and after the next election there will be no more Green Party.

And all the while this country languishes in crippling debt and slowly slides down the tubes.

Flamed Diving

greendom wrote: »

yes, but Italy's debt is something like 120% of its GDP Ireland's is something over 40%

Please. Please, think harder.

Flamed Diving

greendom wrote: »

Now is not the time to remove money from the economy; unless we all want a 10 year slump that is

As usual, no alternative plan is offered.

Bravo.

Rb

MikeC101 wrote: »

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that there might be an issue of businesses using this "free" labour instead of paying people to do it?

Plus the public service unions would declare war if their staff had to put into force these schemes without extra pay, a few months training, promotions all around, and an extra tea break.

(Apologies, but I recently saw an employee diary in my local social welfare office with several 15 minute tea breaks and a two hour lunch pencilled in, and she spent 10 minutes of my "meeting" sitting on her co workers desk having a chat, while the queue waited, and am feeling somewhat annoyed)

Well, if it were up to me, the biggest cutbacks we would see would be in the civil service. Regarding the point about businesses, I realised that they may see free labour > paid labour and get rid of a staff as a consequence, however if such a system were to come to fruition, I could imagine there being stringent rules regarding who does and doesn't get the free employees.

Sand wrote: »

@Rb


The dole is there to support people between jobs as a safety net. Its not there as an alternative career path or life style. Id prefer if people on the dole were out there looking for actual "real" jobs as opposed to being diverted into make work schemes.

Well, there aren't many "real" jobs around, are there? These days it's not all that hard to be actively jobseeking without leaving the house. The biggest issue with regards to social welfare is complacency and mental health. Depression, self-esteem and confidence issues are well known problems associated with unemployment and by providing those who are stuck in a rut with something to do, something to get up for in the morning.

Just an idea really, let us not forget that during the times where anyone who wanted a job could get one, there were still people who just weren't arsed and they're probably still living off the state, yet with less embarrassment this time.

greendom

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Please. Please, think harder.

I'd love to respond to that but you're going to have to explain yourself a little more before I'm able to do so - you probably thought I was going to say that though, didn't you?

greendom

Flamed Diving wrote: »

As usual, no alternative plan is offered.

Bravo.

Thanks

Trotter

These people should hang their heads in shame. Losing seats, TV time, etc after the next GE is no punishment for what they've done to my nation. They have brought the nation to its knees, supported and secured the trappings of dirty power, supported and comforted those who have treated the Irish people like filth, and have condemned us to the greatest transfer of wealth from the decent Irish people to those that played with fire and lost.



Banana Republic.. Septic Isle.

hobochris

Looks like they just Shít canned themselves in the next GE.

Macha

Trotter wrote: »

These people should hang their heads in shame. Losing seats, TV time, etc after the next GE is no punishment for what they've done to my nation. They have brought the nation to its knees, supported and secured the trappings of dirty power, supported and comforted those who have treated the Irish people like filth, and have condemned us to the greatest transfer of wealth from the decent Irish people to those that played with fire and lost.

Sorry, are you talking about Fianna Fail or the Greens?

Secured the trappings of dirty power? Was that before or after they forced FF to agree to ban corporate donations?

Seriously, I thought I'd seen the worst of the misdirected spite when Lisbon was over. This is just getting ridiculous.

Coles

greendom wrote: »

yes, but Italy's debt is something like 120% of its GDP Ireland's is something over 40%

Well over 40%.

And our National Debt is projected by the European Commission to reach 200% of GDP by 2020. All that additional debt is the direct cost of a corrupt and incompetent FF/PD/Green government. Every single cent of that debt will be paid by working people at the expense of social services so that FF's patrons can be saved from bankrupcy.

MikeC101

Sand wrote: »

@MikeC101

Gilmore is on record as saying there wont be any paycuts or job cuts in the public sector as far as he is concerned. Seeing as were taking in 34 billion a year, 9.1 billion of that is gone to paying for NAMA (Cheers Green Party) and then youve got to pay for Social Welfare ( 20 Billion)...well, weve got about 5 Billion left for the public sector, let alone everything else.

Job and salary cuts are impossible to avoid, "efficiencies" arent going to save 26 billion per year.

Great, another party I won't be voting for.

At this rate, I actually might not have any party left I want to vote for come the next election.

Sand

@Tacconol

Sorry, are you talking about Fianna Fail or the Greens?

Secured the trappings of dirty power? Was that before or after they forced FF to agree to ban corporate donations?

Seriously, I thought I'd seen the worst of the misdirected spite when Lisbon was over. This is just getting ridiculous.

What youre missing is that the Greens have endorsed and enabled Fianna Fail. Theyve reviewed the government, theyve thought long and hard about Fianna Fail, their record and their actions in government and voted to endorse them. They can no longer pretend theyre somehow not in government with Fianna Fail. Fianna Fail can count to some degree on 10-15% of the country voting for them even if they spark a nuclear winter. The Greens are simply going to get buried.

Theres nothing misdirected about the spite after this vote. The Greens have chosen their path. Theyre going to get buried in 2012. If this government even makes it that far.

hobochris

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry, are you talking about Fianna Fail or the Greens?

Secured the trappings of dirty power? Was that before or after they forced FF to agree to ban corporate donations?

Seriously, I thought I'd seen the worst of the misdirected spite when Lisbon was over. This is just getting ridiculous.

a ban corporate donations might be enough for the yellows but its not enough for the average joe soap to support this monstrosity pretending to be our government.

a gesture does not forgive a decade of corruption,unless of course you're a member of the green party.

Macha

hobochris wrote: »

a ban corporate donations ,ight be enough for the greens but its not enough for the average joe soap to support this monstrosity pretending to be our government.

Come. on. Labour, FF and FG all gain massively from corporate donations. They are all secretly going to be fuming over this.

The ridiculous heights of melodramatic, populist nonsense that's coming out on this thread is just astonishing. Most poster seem to be in competition to be the most outraged, the most indignant over the Greens.

I'm waiting for references to 1916.

Edit: And just while I think of it, statistically it is possible that more than 2 in 5 posters on here voted for Fianna Fail..interesting thought..

Flamed Diving

Coles wrote: »

Well over 40%.

Nope, something over 40%... 100%?

3,500%?

3,000,000,000%?

lol

Ok, given that we are something over 40% (I assume that implies the lower-end of 40, which is the 2008 figure but we seemingly haven't changed since...), we are predicted to hit 110% by 2011. That's quite a jump in a year and a bit...

greendom

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Nope, something over 40%... 100%?

3,500%?

3,000,000,000%?

lol

Ok, given that we are something over 40% (I assume that implies the lower-end of 40, which is the 2008 figure but we seemingly haven't changed since...), we are predicted to hit 110% by 2011. That's quite a jump in a year and a bit...

That is a shocking increase - is the 110% even with the €4 billion reduction coming in this years budget - if so we really are fecked. Right I do have a solution - I think we should all leave, pronto

Ludo

taconnol wrote: »

Edit: And just while I think of it, statistically it is possible that more than 2 in 5 posters on here voted for Fianna Fail..interesting thought..

Probably not true.
The demographics of boards.ie/the internet make it much more likely that people here are NOT FF supporters. Their core support is probably over 60. People here would be generally people who would be very open to the greens in much higher percentages then the population as a whole. That in itself should be worrying for the greens. They are pissing off young people/middle aged people by defending and supporting FF. This will further alienate those of us who have voted green in the past.

mjth2004

I second an earlier poster – it’s time for the right minded people to take to the streets to show that ‘we’ the taxpayers are not happy with the direction our country is going & the level at cronyism in Leinster House cannot continue!

In the last two weeks, particularly, the anger I am feeling against the elected members of the Dail pretty much laughing at use the morons, who continue to contribute taxes to fund their lifestyles just makes my blood boil!

Bertie last night on the Late Late Show was the final straw, a FF backbencher taking the p1ss out of the head of the party to sell some books! What sort of a country have we become…….it’s time to take to the streets & not just Dublin’s streets but throughout! In my minds eye we should actually march on their constituency offices & let them know the people’s anger!

the groutch

greendom wrote: »

That is a shocking increase - is the 110% even with the €4 billion reduction coming in this years budget - if so we really are fecked. Right I do have a solution - I think we should all leave, pronto

best solution is imo is pumping money into infrastructure, which is starting in drips and drabs with the planned rebuiling of liberty hall & the 3 service stations on the M1

Macha

Ludo wrote: »

Probably not true.
The demographics of boards.ie/the internet make it much more likely that people here are NOT FF supporters. Their core support is probably over 60.

I see a lot of "probably" in your post

Care to provide some stats?

Ludo

taconnol wrote: »

I see a lot of "probably" in your post

Care to provide some stats?

No, can you?

It is based on people I know. Younger people will not generally vote ff (there are a few but not many). Mopst will vote green somewhere near or at the top of their preferences.
Do you disagree?

MikeC101

taconnol wrote: »

I see a lot of "probably" in your post

Care to provide some stats?

It's equally as valid as you claiming, without any evidence, that it's statistically possible 2 out of 5 people on this thread voted Fianna Fáil as if it means something. Of course it's possible.

It's also possibly that 0 out of 5 voted FF, or 5 out of 5, or 67 out of 70.

It means nothing, and as such I don't see what's interesting about it.

hobochris

taconnol wrote: »

Come. on. Labour, FF and FG all gain massively from corporate donations. They are all secretly going to be fuming over this.

The ridiculous heights of melodramatic, populist nonsense that's coming out on this thread is just astonishing. Most poster seem to be in competition to be the most outraged, the most indignant over the Greens.

I'm waiting for references to 1916.

Edit: And just while I think of it, statistically it is possible that more than 2 in 5 posters on here voted for Fianna Fail..interesting thought..

I personally don't give two hoots who is fuming over your little concession, as it means nothing to the electorate. you got one over on the other parties, Who ****ing cares? the country is still being dragged downhill by the current FF dominated Government who the greens have just endorsed.
I'm sure there are many others like me who are more concerned about the government running the country acting in the interests of the people(Opinion polls suggest they are not).

The greens had a chance to redeem themselves and bring an end to this shambles of a government, but instead traded the interests of the people for power.

In my eyes the greens Seem like FF more and more every day.

I voted for the Greens in the last election, It was the first and last time That
ever happens again.

Macha

Ludo wrote: »

No, can you?

Actually, Google is really great, isn't it?

http://www.redcresearch.ie/documents/SBP25thOctPollReport.pdf

September 2008 (as percentage of all voters of that age bracket)
18-3438%
35-5437%
55+35%

MikeC101 wrote: »

It means nothing, and as such I don't see what's interesting about it.

Oh come now. Are you really going to argue that there are NO posters here that voted for FF in 2007? What I said was statistically possible and I've also proven above that there isn't any particular skew in FF supporters towards older people.

Trotter

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry, are you talking about Fianna Fail or the Greens?

Secured the trappings of dirty power? Was that before or after they forced FF to agree to ban corporate donations?

Seriously, I thought I'd seen the worst of the misdirected spite when Lisbon was over. This is just getting ridiculous.

I'm talking about the Greens securing FF's way of life for them, as well you know. You should know better than to think anything your party does will stop FF taking donations.

I've been watching these threads all day and your attitude of attacking anyone you dont agree with your own "misdirected spite" is sickening and indicative of the the "ridiculous" blind loyalty you and your party have shown to the greatest fungus that has ever attacked this nations core. I have nothing against you personally, but your reaction to posters with their own legitimate opinions today has been poor.

Slán.

Macha

hobochris wrote: »

I personally don't give two hoots who is fuming over your little concession, as it means nothing to the electorate.

That's amazing that you speak for the 3.1 million people.

hobochris wrote: »

you got one over on the other parties, Who ****ing cares?

Do you understand the impact of corporate donations on politics in Ireland?

Macha

Trotter wrote: »

I'm talking about the Greens securing FF's way of life for them, as well you know. You should know better than to think anything your party does will stop FF taking donations.

Except the banning of corporate donations and the implementation of vouched expenses, you mean?

Trotter wrote: »

I've been watching these threads all day and your attitude of attacking anyone you dont agree with your own "misdirected spite" is sickening and indicative of the the "ridiculous" blind loyalty you and your party have shown to the greatest fungus that has ever attacked this nations core. I have nothing against you personally, but your reaction to posters with their own legitimate opinions today has been poor.

Off to ready the vats of boiling oil?

I have actually had personal attacks from other posters who have then apologised. I have never attacked the poster, I have always attacked the post. If you have a problem with any of my posts, please go ahead and report them. If not then start debating the facts. I note that you have contributed little by way of facts to the debate but have preferred to indulge in demagogy. Your choice to view strong debate as "attacks" and my defence of my points of view as "poor reaction" is beyond my control. I don't agree at all, but then again you'll probably just interpret that as "sickening" as well. More theatrical hooey.

hobochris

taconnol wrote: »

That's amazing that you speak for the 3.1 million people.

I don't personally but recent opinion polls on this government show that neither do the greens or FF.

taconnol wrote: »

Do you understand the impact of corporate donations on politics in Ireland?

I do, Removing corporate donations still wont solve the Incompetence that follows this government round like a bad stench.

Macha

hobochris wrote: »

I don't personally

So please refrain from assuming what the electorate does and does not care about.

hobochris wrote: »

I do,

Well then you will appreciate what a big step it is, naturally.