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Green Party to stay in Government

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    #92
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    taconnol wrote: »
    Oh come now. Are you really going to argue that there are NO posters here that voted for FF in 2007? What I said was statistically possible and I've also proven above that there isn't any particular skew in FF supporters towards older people.

    Of course not. If you'd read the post you would have noticed I didn't do that.
    As I said, it's statistically possible - but it's also statistically possible that nobody posting in the thread voted FF, or that everybody did.
    Putting in "statistically possible" as if it gives some weight to the idea that a certain percentage of the posters are disgruntled FF voters taking out their anger on the Greens is disingenuous.

    The reason I'm angry at the Green party is for a few reasons. I can remember Trevor Sargents "I will not lead the greens into government with Fianna Fail" promise, and the clever and oh so political way that one was gotten around.

    Also, I thought the greens were to be a moral watchdog on FF? Yet, despite all the abuses, they've decided to support FF through thick and thin, for the scraps of policies they're allowed implement. Practicality? Perhaps, but if they suffer a backlash like they did in the local elections come the next general election, it might not seem so practical.

    Oh and if you want to start compiling stats, I've never voted for FF in a general election.


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    #93
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    taconnol wrote: »
    Except the banning of corporate donations and the implementation of vouched expenses, you mean?

    Do you actually believe given what we have seen and heard from FF for decades that they will not receive a cent from any corporation? Do you believe your party has rehabilitated them?

    Do you believe that we will see a completely verifiable expenses system that stops TDs from claiming a return trip on a train when they have a free travel pass for one example?

    Nil mar a shiltear a bhitear..
    taconnol wrote: »
    Your choice to view strong debate as "attacks" and my defence of my points of view as "poor reaction" is beyond my control. I don't agree at all, but then again you'll probably just interpret that as "sickening" as well. More theatrical hooey.


    Labeling somoeone's opinions as "theatrical hooey" is disrespectful arrogance.


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    #94
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    taconnol wrote: »
    So please refrain from assuming what the electorate does and does not care about.
    As I said in the part of my post you conveniently omitted from your quote, I'm going on opinion poll's which are a more concise indicator then anything you or I say out of opinion.

    taconnol wrote: »
    Well then you will appreciate what a big step it is, naturally.

    To you maybe, but to me its a drip in the ocean.Too little to late.


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    #95
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Trotter wrote: »
    Do you actually believe given what we have seen and heard from FF for decades that they will not receive a cent from any corporation?

    Do you believe that we will see a completely verifiable expenses system that stops TDs from claiming a return trip on a train when they have a free travel pass for one example?
    Yes that is generally what a ban on corporate donations and the implementation of vouched expenses means.
    Trotter wrote: »
    Labeling somoeone's opinions as "theatrical hooey" is disrespectful arrogance.
    And calling mine "sickening"? Please.


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    #96
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    hobochris wrote: »
    As I said in the part of my post you conveniently committed from your quote, I'm going on opinion poll's which are a more concise indicator then anything you or I say out of opinion.
    Care to post up the latest opinion polls on the banning of corporate donations, so?
    hobochris wrote: »
    To you maybe, but to me its a drip in the ocean.
    Fair enough. I consider corporate donations to be a, dare I use the word, fungus on political life in Ireland.


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    #97
    rs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭rs


    I really am amazed by all of this.

    I have never voted FF, let me say this now.

    But, I do distinctly remember both FG and Labour promising massive INCREASES in public spending in the last election. I love how this has all been quickly been swept under the rug. Now they are seen as the saviors of Ireland, if only they had the chance.

    As crap as our government is, I honestly feel we would actually be worse off if FG and Labour had won the last election. The economic collapse would have happened in either case.

    Can we have a new political party please. One that isn't crap.


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    #98
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    taconnol wrote: »
    Fair enough. I consider corporate donations to be a, dare I use the word, fungus on political life in Ireland.

    So ...to stay with that image ...the Green party has just picked enough mushrooms for a political breakfast out of of the big polythene tentet fungus farm that is FF

    Whoop deee fecking doooo


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    #99
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    taconnol wrote: »
    Yes that is generally what a ban on corporate donations and the implementation of vouched expenses means.


    And calling mine "sickening"? Please.


    I know what it means thanks. You have assumed to rehabilitate FF into a group of people who will play by the rules from now on. Im sorry but I completely disagree.

    And yes, I find the attitude that today the Greens have somehow done a service to the nation sickening. I expect that I'm not alone, but I can't say for sure before you request statistics on it.


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    #100
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Trotter wrote: »
    I know what it means thanks. You have assumed to rehabilitate FF into a group of people who will play by the rules from now on. Im sorry but I completely disagree.

    And yes, I find the attitude that today the Greens have somehow done a service to the nation sickening. I expect that I'm not alone, but I can't say for sure before you request statistics on it.

    If he needs statistics he can count me as one.


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    #101
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    taconnol wrote: »
    Do you understand the impact of corporate donations on politics in Ireland?

    They weren't corporate donations.

    They were personal digouts.


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    #102
    gdael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭gdael


    Was it ever going to be any different?
    They just wanted to hang on but be able to say that they are standing up to FF. When actually they are really FFs lapdogs.

    I voted green. Never again...... Ever.


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    #103
    McSandwich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭McSandwich


    rs wrote: »
    I really am amazed by all of this.

    I have never voted FF, let me say this now.

    But, I do distinctly remember both FG and Labour promising massive INCREASES in public spending in the last election. I love how this has all been quickly been swept under the rug. Now they are seen as the saviors of Ireland, if only they had the chance.

    As crap as our government is, I honestly feel we would actually be worse off if FG and Labour had won the last election. The economic collapse would have happened in either case.

    Can we have a new political party please. One that isn't crap.

    I put this issue to a FG representative who told me that their proposals for increasing public expenditure were based on available dept. of finance figures at the time. Obviously these figures turned out to be more than a little optimistic...

    As for today's events, the agreed pfg looks more aspirational than achievable given the current dept. of finance figures. I have to wonder how long it will be before Green Party members are called to vote again


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    #104
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Fianna Fáil the Bertie Party promised the Sun, Moon and Stars in the run up to a whole series of general elections. The voting public lapped it up time and time again.

    How much of it did they ever deliver?

    Here are FF now promising the Man in the Moon and the Milky Way to the Green Party. Mary Harney had it right, the people have very short memories.


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    #105
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    just a complete side question, what is the story with Pat "The Cope" Gallagher? is his seat up for grabs now? if so another FG/Lab win in a by-election would make the government's majority almost non-existent


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    #106
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    the groutch wrote: »
    just a complete side question, what is the story with Pat "The Cope" Gallagher? is his seat up for grabs now? if so another FG/Lab win in a by-election would make the government's majority almost non-existent

    It's not in Cowen's interest to hold tha by-election, so he won't.


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    #107
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Its just hard to belief how Fianna Fail are still in government.

    Its amazing and i really do worry that they will always be.

    This country is nothing short of a democratic dictatorship, idiotic morons who will keep chipping in the same ballots.

    As an Irishman i am just ashamed.

    We need some decent well respected figure heads in Irish culture to stand up and get this ball rolling because i've had enough of this bunch of bandits getting away with corrupting our country.

    We must do something.


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    #108
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    10ndr4n.jpg


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    #109
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    So.. The love in continues.. You asked your flower loving, breezy, seemingly intelligent daughter to stop seeing 'Hatchets' as he calls himself.. because you reckon he's dishonest, and that she cant see through his BS and his shiney greasy hair to see his sneaky inner git. He has plenty of money and you have no clue where he gets it all, but he talks the talk, and has the smile that Arthur Daly himself would have been proud of.

    She took your advice on board, and you had hopes, but in he breezed into your living room tonight, and the thieving little p***k picked up the remote, changed the channel and smiled the smile of champions at you.


    So.. Seeing that your daughter hasnt dumped yer man....


    Whats next in the ongoing saga of FF and the Greens? I assume they've already signed up to backing the budget so no instability there, just a load of complaints from 75% of the nation and then silence as the Baby Jesus blows out his candles for a few months.

    NAMA goes through in the meantime and we find ourselves in Spring 2010 with nothing concrete to base our hopes for a general election on.

    Is Daddy really stuck with Hatchets?


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    #110
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    dresden8 wrote: »
    It's not in Cowen's interest to hold tha by-election, so he won't.

    okay, thanks

    so what is the majority then, 83-81 + ceann comhairle for if it goes 82-82?


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    #111
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Trotter wrote: »
    I know what it means thanks. You have assumed to rehabilitate FF into a group of people who will play by the rules from now on. Im sorry but I completely disagree.
    So you're basically saying that the banning of corporate donations are pointless. You're also setting up FF as the only party capable of corruption, as if Labour & FG are shining beacons of virtue.
    Trotter wrote: »
    And yes, I find the attitude that today the Greens have somehow done a service to the nation sickening. .
    Well then stop complaining about my opinion of your attitude. You seem perfectly happy to knock down other people's points of view - and that of course is perfectly fine. But don't start complaining when someone else does it to your posts.
    dresden8 wrote: »
    If he needs statistics he can count me as one.
    I'm female. But knock yourself out.

    Edit: I'm also loving all the people who seem to have voted Greens on here! Amazing that we only got 6 seats!


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    #112
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    taconnol wrote: »

    I'm female. But knock yourself out.

    Okay, if she needs statistics count me as one.

    See, no material change to the facts there.


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    #113
    McSandwich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭McSandwich


    Recent history has shown us that banning corporate donations, eliminating corruption, and reformation of the Irish political system are critically important. We have know this for a long time and the big (rhetorical) question is why is it taking so long?

    As for carbon tax, great idea - providing that the revenue is invested in our future (renewable) energy independence. Is that going to happen given current budget deficits? I don't think so. Instead it will lead to bad feeling for the Green party, galvanized by the fact that carbon emissions are dropping as unemployment increases (thousands less cars on the road).

    I think that we need the Green party as without them many of the good policies that they support would no longer have a voice. Right now however supporting Fianna Fáil, a party who history has shown will promise anything to preserve themselves, is political suicide - just ask the former PDs.


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    #114
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    We desperately need a Green party in Ireland. Its a crucial angle that needs to be covered.

    But far more importantly, we needed to be free of FF's ways.


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    #115
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    God help the Green party candidate that trots up to my door looking for a vote at the run up to the next election!

    The vast majority of people do not want NAMA and do not want FF in power and yet these idiots choose to prop them up.

    As the saying goes, 'you reap what you sow,' and these guys are going to reap a whirlwind.

    Riv


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    #116
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    taconnol wrote: »
    Yes that is generally what a ban on corporate donations and the implementation of vouched expenses means.


    And calling mine "sickening"? Please.

    TBH I think FF will find a new way to take back handers from developers for the party.

    I do think it is important to clean up political donations and unvouched expenses but realistically FF won't fund themselves without them so they will find a way because your not dealing with honest people here.


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    #117
    population
    Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭population


    taconnol wrote: »

    Edit: I'm also loving all the people who seem to have voted Greens on here! Amazing that we only got 6 seats!

    I voted Green first preference in every single election since I turned 18. Never again. You can count me as a stat also. And another thing for all your harping on about political donations etc and how it is great that you opted to stay in, do you not get a feeling deep in the pit of your stomach that none of it will count for anything? You have effectively destroyed the country by proxy. You are finished


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    #118
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I think I've just figured it all out.

    The Greens don't like our cars and our petrol, and courtesy of NAMA and FF's buddies we're not - and our kids and our grandkids aren't - going to have enough money to have those, so the Greens can have their green Ireland.

    Mind you, we shouldn't be surprised; they shafted us immediately after the election, getting into bed with the Failures, so they were probably bound to do it again.

    "40 shades of green" - and a ministerial pension if they hang in there until after Christmas, isn't it ?

    Here's a question for the Snots; did you have ANY objection to - for example - the dual pollution of JO'D taking his air-trip to Kerry while his car also made the trip ?

    I know it sounds petty, but since screwing the country isn't a problem I had to find something in the FF corruption that referenced the environment, because ye obviously don't give a crap about anything else.

    If so, why didn't you open your mouths before Gilmore ?


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    #119
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    taconnol wrote: »
    Edit: I'm also loving all the people who seem to have voted Greens on here! Amazing that we only got 6 seats!

    Frequenters of the Boards.ie Politics forum, and particularly those who comment, are on average more likely to be informed than the average voter. For example, when last did you hear someone trying to defend FF here? Yet out in the 'real world' one hears it a lot. So the demographic is different and Im not surprised to see more (former) Green voters than normal.


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    #120
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I a ministerial pension if they hang in there until after Christmas, isn't it ?


    I think its 4 years they need. Considering I've been paying towards my pension for 15 years and still will get SFA out it, I'd say thats a good package for sitting around pretending to give a crap.


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    #121
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    From the programme:
    Declare the Republic of Ireland a GM-Free Zone, free from the cultivation of all GM plants.

    What useless dogma.

    More critique here.


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