"Fees are inevitable lolz"... Wait, what was that?

33% God

Commitment on third-level fees

Agreement on the Programme for Government came last night following discussions between Taoiseach Brian Cowen, Green Party leader John Gormley, and continuing negotiations between Fianna Fáil and the Greens.
The proposed Programme says the Government would not reintroduce third-level fees and it would employ an extra 500 teachers over the next three years.

...


Around 50 members of Union of Students in Ireland gathered outside the RDS to urge Green Party members to vote in favour of the new Programme, while other protesters called on the Greens to pull out of Government.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1010/greens.html

Lets hope they stick to it.:D

millar222

Will we just see Fianna Fail pull off a masterful dodge? Are fees inevitable? Have they, knowing they're likely to be crucified in the next election, passed the buck to Inda Kinny?

MrMatisse

Fees will be brought back eventually. The government wont want to throw away the gains the universities have made in the rankings. The government cant be throwing more money at third level to keep them there when kids in primary schools have to bring in their own toilet paper.

Tom65

If fees come in, the Green Party will leave government. If the Green Party leave government, Fine Gael and Labour will come in. Labour are, to the best of my knowledge, against fees.

We're safe.

Stabshauptmann

Its possible that the greens would be open to a graduate tax though, or some sort of scheme to recoup the cost of third level education

bnt

In the full document linked to from the news report, this is the language used:

Conscious of the economic pressures on parents today, this Government will not proceed with any new scheme of student contribution for Third Level education.

Sounds pretty definitive to me.

There are other education-related things in the report, too, such as:

We will take on 1,000 Third and Fourth level graduates to provide additional capacity and skills across the public service and in Government Departments and provide valuable work experience.

33% God

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Its possible that the greens would be open to a graduate tax though, or some sort of scheme to recoup the cost of third level education

Nope, they've said they're opposed to any form of payment.

RandolphEsq

millar222 wrote: »

Will we just see Fianna Fail pull off a masterful dodge? Are fees inevitable? Have they, knowing they're likely to be crucified in the next election, passed the buck to Inda Kinny?

Stay tuned for another installment of "Tabloid headlines a la millar222"

Breezer

While I'm glad fees are off the agenda for now, I don't believe for a minute that this is feasible indefinitely. I'd still maintain that a 'graduate tax' is a fair solution. If the Greens prove me wrong I'll be very happy, but I don't think they're going to.

33% God wrote: »

Nope, they've said they're opposed to any form of payment.

Have they?

Here is a link to John Gormley being interviewed on "This Week." He starts talking about 3rd level fees at 7:18. Registration fees are mentioned at 12:45. It's "not the intention" that registration fees will go up. Will his good intentions hold water? "I don't know," says Gormley.

So basically, we now have a situation where extra money will more than likely need to be ponied up by parents/students, upfront, every year, rather than a system of deferred payments, by the students themselves, at a time when they can afford it. Well done Greens, well done.

He also has no idea how much the education promises (or anything else in this programme) will cost (11:57), and apparently doesn't care. That's a matter for Brian Lenihan to sort out, it seems. It'll be interesting to see exactly how he sorts it out come December.

For those of you who don't have time to listen to the broadcast, this Independent article sums it up pretty well:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-fees-but-student-charges-will-soar-1910829.html

No fees but student charges will soar
College registration costs facing huge increase in Budget

COLLEGE registration fees are expected to rise substantially again next year, despite the Green Party's commitment on third-level fees in the coalition deal with Fianna Fail.

...

The maximum amount of registration fee is set by Finance Minister Brian Lenihan in the Budget...The registration fee charged by each college is then set in consultation with the Higher Education Authority and the Department of Education.

Whenever the Government allows the fee to be increased, most colleges follow suit immediately.

...

Environment Minister John Gormley claimed yesterday the registration fees are a matter for the universities to decide.

He said his party will ensure there is no reintroduction of fees. But he said he didn't know if the registration fees would increase. "You're going to have to address those questions to the heads of the universities themselves," he said on RTE's 'This Week'.

Noreen1

Tom65 wrote: »

If fees come in, the Green Party will leave government. If the Green Party leave government, Fine Gael and Labour will come in. Labour are, to the best of my knowledge, against fees.

We're safe.

I don't know what Labours' current position is, but it was on their website before the local elections that they are in favour of student loans, to be repaid after graduation. So, what happens the loan if you flunk your course?

Noreen

Breezer

Noreen1 wrote: »

I don't know what Labours' current position is, but it was on their website before the local elections that they are in favour of student loans, to be repaid after graduation. So, what happens the loan if you flunk your course?

Noreen

Are you sure about that? I'm fairly sure they've always been against fees in any form. I certainly can't find anything on their website now that suggests otherwise.

WeeBushy

In an interview in Trinty's (w*ankers etc.) magazine Miscellany there is a very good interview with Ruari Quinn where he sets out quite clearly and strongly the Labour Party's opposition to 3rd level fees.

Noreen1

Breezer wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I'm fairly sure they've always been against fees in any form. I certainly can't find anything on their website now that suggests otherwise.

Nor can I - and believe me I've searched!
I'm still pretty sure that I read something to that effect on either the party website, or possibly one of their spokespersons. I do stand ready to be corrected, though.
I remember, because I checked each parties education policy before the local elections, and I remember being dismayed that every (main) party seemed to have 3rd level fees, in one form or another, in mind.

Noreen

graduate

In an interview in Trinty's (w*ankers etc.) magazine Miscellany there is a very good interview with Ruari Quinn where he sets out quite clearly and strongly the Labour Party's opposition to 3rd level fees.

Does he set out, quite clearly and strongly, how 3rd level is to be properly funded in the absence of fees, given that the country is broke?

WeeBushy

graduate wrote: »

Does he set out, quite clearly and strongly, how 3rd level is to be properly funded in the absence of fees, given that the country is broke?

I'm sure I still have it knocking around here somewhere... gimme time and I'll find it for you. AFAIR he does.

mad lad

The Labour Party has always opposed tuition fees. Fees themselves were abolished by the Rainbow government despite opposition from the current Labour Party leadership (who were in Democratic Left at the time - Rabbitte, Gilmore, McManus & De Rossa) who opposed it at the time.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=145863&sectioncode=26

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/de-rossa-fought-against-abolition-of-college-fees-416680.html

Sad Professor

Here's a link to that Ruairi Quinn interview. Starts on page 20.

http://www.miscellany.ie/latest/