Ultegra 6700 Brake Compatibility

Home:Ballyhoura

Hi there guys, I'm looking at building up a TT bike but just came across some possible compatibility issues! I have ordered some second hand aero TT bars which included Dura Ace 7800 10-Speed bar end shifers and Vision aero brake levers. The thing is I have decided to go with Shimano's new Ultegra 6700 groupset for the F&R Derailleurs along with the F&R Brakes and chain. I was reading CompetitiveCyclists artilce on the 6700 Brakes when I came across the fact that:

"The Servo-Wave is what has improved modulation and power. Servo-Wave in the brakes also means you've got to use these calipers with 6700 or 7900 levers or they are not going to work, at least according to Shimano."

A quick google search and I came across these two articles on various forums, both of which show great uncertainty and divided opinions on whether they will or will not work with other levers. Here is the one on BikeRadar and here is the one on WeightWeenies. Both have good info and worth a read! Where is Sheldon Brown when you need him! Haha

WTF...like surely any lever will pull a bit of cable tighter and the increased tension will cause the caliper to close in on the rim? No??? Like will it work at all, taking into account that it's a TT bike and I don't exactly need top notch braking - I don't plan on descending anything too serious on this bike so power isn't really important and neither is this fancy evenly graduated power distribution stuff. I just want them to slow me down when I want them to, will they even do this for me when used with the Vision levers or will I have to splash out on something like the specific Shimano 7900 TT levers? Maybe it will work some way, but just not 100% exactly like Shimano want it to work...is that that actually the case and fair enough to say?

Also, I believe that the front derailleur and rear derailleur (links to competitive cyclist articles which include opinions on compatibility) have been completely re-designed and "massively" improved. However, I'm not sure that the changes are as drastic as those in the brakes which prevents backwards compatibility.

For the rear derailleur, they say:

"yes, it will work with 7900 shifters no problem. It will work with old Ultegra (6600 and SL) shifters no problem."

and for the front derailleur they say:

"designed to work with a front STI shifter that still has an intermediate "trim" shift—DA doesn't have this feature anymore. Shimano says this front derailleur will work with older 6600 shifters, but considers it 'B' compatible, works, but not great."

...clearly a bit of uncertainty there too! Do I need new shifters too or will the 10-Speed Dura Ace 7800 ones be OK?

Let me know what you thing guys, I stayed loyal to me knowledgeable fellow boardsie cyclists who I trust to know their stuff and offer top notch advice! Is there anyone else I could contact or ask about this query, apart from Shimano who will obviously say no for safety reasons and to get me to buy new stuff off them. I don't know, I'm really confused and want to order the parts to get the build under way! Thanks in advance, I really appreciate your help. Cheers

Home:Ballyhoura

38 views now and no response??? Thats not like the boardsie help I'm used to...:(

Only messin'...twas probably something to do with boards going down for a while (well at least for me anyway) just after I posted this up...no worries! All I need is a response with a bit of advice so I can decide on whether to make the order or look for alternative brakes! Cheers

As usual, thanks in advance! I genuinely really appreciate your help.
H:B

niceonetom

Hmm... You've fallen off the front page there H:B. The weekend is not a good time to ask complicated questions like this though. Maybe today someone will hazard a guess.

But a guess is all it will be - the odds of someone else using this set-up are minimal.

My guess:
that brakes will be fine. The new callipers seem to use slightly less cables pull and slightly more leverage so modulation probablt behaves better with 6700 levers, but, back in the real world, you will be fine with any brake lever than can reliably pull the cable.

gears... well I don't know if the 7800 bar ends and the 6700 deraillers pull the same amount of cable. But I think that the 7800 TT shifters can be run without indexing which would certainly solve any trimming issues you might have with the FD (though how much are you going to use the FD on a TT bike?). the question you need to answers is: do the 7800 and 6700 rear dérailleurs use the same amount of cable pull per change. If they do you're laughing. If they don't you're spending.

'68 Fastback

Hi,
I was reading through your post and it sounds just like the problem that arose when shimano introduced the V-brake. The dedicated V-brake lever was "servo-wave" too. IIRC the V-brake cantilever needed more cable pulled so there was a different pivot piont in the lever to do so. A regular lever just couldnt pull enough cable to get the pad to the rim. this ment that changing to V-brakes meant buying the whole system not just the cantis.
I think someone manufactured a gizmo to make old levers work, maybe this will happen in this case too.

Home:Ballyhoura

Hi guys, I was just about to order the frame there when I came across the Planet X Brakes...what do ye think of them? I think the £99.99 205g Ultra Light CNC Brake Calipers (the ones towards the top of the page) are a bit too much for me and my needs , but I think the bottom two on the page, Ultra Light FORGED Brake Callipers - 225g per pair for an Introductory Offer of £50 look pretty good don't they? Only in the black colour, the silver just look absolutely awful...really cheap looking I think!

Anyway, I held off on making the order for the frame because I want to find out what ye think about these brakes?...Well? There wouldn't be any compatability issue like those relating to the Ultegra 6700 brakes would there? I just don't want to be caught out and have to pay an extra €16 to get them shipped over at a later stage...that would kind oftake away from their good value! Anyone got any experiences, reviews or opinions? Any help would be greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance!

Cheers,
H:B

niceonetom

I'd stick with the ultegra tbh. Those forged cnc-lookalikes are butt fugly and I seriously doubt that you'll have any compatibility issues with the shimanos. Callipers are simply not that complicated. "Servo-wave" is pretty obvious marketing talk to encourage silly people into compulsive upgrading. Pull the cable -> wheels get squeezed.

Home:Ballyhoura

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd stick with the ultegra tbh. Those forged cnc-lookalikes are butt fugly and I seriously doubt that you'll have any compatibility issues with the shimanos. Callipers are simply not that complicated. "Servo-wave" is pretty obvious marketing talk to encourage silly people into compulsive upgrading. Pull the cable -> wheels get squeezed.

Thanks for that! Thats what I thought too...I'm off to make the order for the frame now! Woohoo...nice exchange rate at the moment too which is always nice and an added bonus!

(Also, when selling it or just giving the spec it is much nicer to just say full Ultegra 6700 Groupset instead of listing off all the different brands of stuff! Can't wait till I get all the bits together and build it up, should be fun!!! Will let ye know how I get on. Cheers!)

bcmf

I thought the ones on the PX were nice. And at £50 (and parity if not better expected within the week) not a bad buy. I remember looking at them a few months back and they got really good reviews.

penexpers

niceonetom wrote: »

Pull the cable -> wheels get squeezed.

So you would think. You ever tried to brake using direct pull levers + v-brakes? Spongy wouldn't really describe it.

niceonetom

penexpers wrote: »

So you would think. You ever tried to brake using direct pull levers + v-brakes? Spongy wouldn't really describe it.

Fairly obviously, I meant callipers. The OP has only been comparing callipers. V brakes? On a tt bike? em... no.

'68 Fastback

if the "servo wave" tag on the 6700 levers means what it meant on V brake levers, they'll pull alot more cable than 6600s and the 6700 calipers will need that extra pull to get the pads to the rim. 6600 levers will activate the caliper but maybe not as well. all this is guessing though, i'm just comparing this situation to the mtb v brake changeover.

penexpers

So I did the unthinkable and I read the service docs for the new 6700 calipers, and here's what it says

Use the ST-6700/6703, BL-TT79 with the BR-6700.Do not use the BR-6700 in combination with previous STI levers for roadriding or with the BL-R770/BL-R550 brake levers for flat handlebars, otherwise the braking performance provided will
be much too strong.

So it looks like the new shifters pull less cable than the new ones and the new calipers have been designed with this in mind.

Home:Ballyhoura

bcmf wrote: »

...parity if not better expected within the week...

Thanks for all the help guys, I've ordered the frame and left the Planet X brakes out of the order. I decided to go with the Ultegra 6700 from Ribble...sure I can always sell them on if needs be and get a suitable set that work properly if any problems arise. Two questions:

1. How long does stuff like this (Bikes/Frames) usually take to arrive from Planet X...I know there is loads of people here who bought the SL Pro Carbon Ultegra build deal recently so ye probably know a lot more than I do!

2. How long does it usually take for payments to be processed through onto your credit card? Reason I ask is because I am watching the exchange rates and it looks quite good at the moment! (And is parity actually expected within the week like what bcmf said?)

Although saying that, bcmf says that parity is expected within the week between the Pound and Euro! Where did you get this info, and do you believe it and actually expect it to happen? I know I saved about €50 on the price I would have paid a month or two ago but I'd be sickened if another €50 came off the price in the next week or so because I'm really in no great hurry to get it...I had just read that this was expected sometime in the first few months of 2010 but is there signs showing it will happen sometime sooner than that? I hope not in one way, but on the other hand it would mean unbelievable value to be had on other purchases in the future! Haha, let me know what ye think guys. I will keep ye updated with how the build is going! Cheers

Home:Ballyhoura

Ordered the frame at 22:35 on Monday 12th October so basically like ordering it on Tuesday morning as that is when they would have actually received it. I estimated a week or two shipping time for it to arrive, but to my astonishment, morning of Thursday 15th October it arrives! Wow, that is some service you have to admit...just two days turnaround time! And the funny thing is that they didn't even charge my Credit Card until after I had received it later that evening and luckily I got it through at the good exchange rate as it has gone back up a bit now today! I have to say I'm delighted with it...very well packaged up, great finish to the frame and seems to be of excellent quality. I just can't wait for all the other bits to start arriving so I can bring it to the lbs to get built up (anyone have any idea as to what kind of price I would be looking at to get this done? I mean roughly now, just so I know what to expect!). I asked the very knowledgeable owner of the shop (really great mechanic) about the 6700 brake compatibility issue and he laughed, I have nothing to worry about! Below is just one quick few...more to come when its looking better (I don't think this deserves a thread of its own and I want to wait until it's fully built up before I post it the the images of beauty thread. Haha!). Let me know what you think, cheers!

zzzzzzzz

That looks great in white. Looking forward to seeing the full build.

What wheels are you putting on it?

Home:Ballyhoura

Thanks man, I think so too!!!

To start with, I will be putting my deepish section Corima carbon tubulars on it (see picture attached below). If I can I am going to try and get a cheap disc for the rear wheel, something like the Renn 575 for around €400 or something second hand if I can...I'm on the lookout for one at the moment! Spec will probably be as follows:

Frame: Planet X Stealth Pro Carbon (Small size, Pearl White colour)
Fork: Planet X Stealth (standard)
Headset: FSA Orbit CE 15mm Black with Planet X Fork Bung
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6700
Front Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6700
Shifters: Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 Bar End Shifters
Brake levers: Vision Aero Brake Levers
Brakes: Shimano Ultegra 6700
Wheels: Corima Medium Carbon Tubulars with an Ultegra 6600 Cassette
Tyres: Continental Sprinter, Continental Competition tubulars
Cranks: FSA Team Issue Carbon Crankset (Standard Double - 170mm, 53/39t) with MegaExo Bottom Bracket
Handle bar: FSA Pro Integrated Sloping Aero Bars (integrated stem)
Saddle: Selle Italia/Cervelo TT Specific saddle
Seat post: Planet X Stealth Aero Seatpost
Pedals: Look KéO Carbon/ KéO 2 Max

Home:Ballyhoura

Also, does anyone want to have a guess at what you think it might come in at weight wise? As a guide, the wheels are 1400g, the Frame/Fork (uncut)/Seatpost/Headset comes in at 2257g (1479 + 406.5 + 254.5 + 117) and the crankset with bb is 860g (726g + 134g)...I have no idea what the rest of the stuff will weigh and it is too much effort to go looking them all up! I know weight makes very little difference on a TT bike if any at all but I just want a rough idea to know what to expect.

And nobody knows how much I can expect to pay to get it build up in the lbs? Cheers

Lumen

Home:Ballyhoura, I can't believe you posted in all those little icons.

Go have a lie down.

Home:Ballyhoura

Lumen wrote: »

Home:Ballyhoura, I can't believe you posted in all those little icons.

Go have a lie down.

Haha, I knew someone would comment on that! I actually just copied and pasted the spec of a bike on the Canyon website and the little icon things were put in too! I was only allowed to use 15 of them as each one is counted as a picture and that is the max you can have in a single post...as a result I combined a few like hubs/rims/cassette into one "wheels" and cranks/chainring/bottom bracket into just "crankset"...there are icons for absolutely everything and I think they make it look good, real official!!

Three I had wanted to put in:

Size: Small (48)
Colour: Pearl White
Weight: (I don't know, you tell me what you think it will come in at...a rough estimate will do!)