Fergie issues ref apology

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

think you owe Rarnes an apology Kryogen

i will clarify my comment later this week

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

think you owe Rarnes an apology Kryogen

Will that save a ban?

The Muppet

Looks like Fergies plan to divert attention away from the teams poor performance worked. A week on and it' still working. Class manager.

mike65

QFT.

ElaElaElano

The Muppet wrote: »

Looks like Fergies plan to divert attention away from the teams poor performance worked. A week on and it' still working. Class manager.

He's an extremely intelligent man, don't think anyone would doubt that. It's just that (and I may be a little...ok very biased) there have been other managers on a level playing field with Ferguson who have the nous, the success and the intelligence that he does without being rude and discourteous to other people in the game. It does seem as though the excuses only come out when things don't go his way.

But if you believe something for long enough it becomes true in your mind. Alex Ferguson believes what he comes out with; he's a narcissist. His reality may differ from almost everyone else but his reality, in his mind, is the reality. And that arrogance has played a big part in his success.

To lend a quote from another article focusing on this subject,


'If you believe that you have the best team in the country, a team six or seven goals better than the emerging force from the other side of town, a team that only ever drops points when the referee isn't up to scratch, then your players - presuming they also buy into that set of beliefs - will also act accordingly.

This perhaps explains why U***d often prove to be so strong when minds begin to tire in the second half of a long, hard season.

By refusing to accept most of their shortcomings over the previous six months, they still have the belief in their ability to get the job done and claim another league title when it gets down to the business end of the campaign.'

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

i've had a go at many managers for their comments towards officials in the past (incl Rafa),

Strange I don't remember once you having a go at Rafa and his treatment of officials, search is down so I could be wrong.

How vocal were you last month for instance when he questioned Phil Dowd and sugggested he treats Liverpool unfairly when he is in charge of one of their matches? Also didn't he suggest the 4th official that particular day was too young to do his job?

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Hilarious!! Sure him for what exactly?

Slander Pronunciation [slan-der]

–noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

kida

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Slander Pronunciation [slan-der]

–noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

he said he thought he was not fit enough, and if he said to Rooney he needed a break it was factually correct!! Could even be anyway if there is enough video of him stopping to catch his breath.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Slander Pronunciation [slan-der]

–noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

What did Ferguson say that was slanderous?

And if it is considered slanderous, 99% of managers opinions on referees will have to be dealt with in the same manner, won't they?

Karmafaerie

kida wrote: »

he said he thought he was not fit enough, and if he said to Rooney he needed a break it was factually correct!! Could even be anyway if there is enough video of him stopping to catch his breath.

He said Wiley wasn't fit.
The refferee's association came out and proved Wiley was in no way unfit to ref the match.

Where are you getting your "facts" from?

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

He said Wiley wasn't fit.
The refferee's association came out and proved Wiley was in no way unfit to ref the match.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

He implied that a professional wasn't fit to do his job.
Hense the slander part.

What other managers do is besides the point.
Are we going to have to go down the route of "if other managers jumped off a bridge....."?!

Fergusson has been a manager for long enough to know that he is to be held accountable for his actions.
Not the actions of other managers.

Ferguson questioned the fitness regime of all premiership referees, and compared them to there conterparts on the continent. Which is a matter of opinion.

Now the association can try and prove all they want, but proving the above as slanderous is impossible, unless we have some sort of race between lets say Spanish and English officials.

Do you think Karma, Rafa should be sued for saying the 4th official was too young to do is job?

Do think Wenger should be sued for the countless times he has said officials offer his players no protection?

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

What did Ferguson say that was slanderous?

And if it is considered slanderous, 99% of managers opinions on referees will have to be dealt with in the same manner, won't they?

He implied that a professional wasn't fit to do his job.
Hense the slander part.

What other managers do is besides the point.
Are we going to have to go down the route of "if other managers jumped off a bridge....."?!

Fergusson has been a manager for long enough to know that he is to be held accountable for his actions.
Not the actions of other managers.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

What other managers do is besides the point.
Are we going to have to go down the route of "if other managers jumped off a bridge....."?!

WTF?

How is what other managers do beside the point?

If the association bring this to a legal level, should it not be a level playing field for all managers, experienced or not?

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Ferguson questioned the fitness regime of all premiership referees, and compared them to there conterparts on the continent. Which is a matter of opinion.

Now the association can try and prove all they want, but proving the above as slanderous is impossible, unless we have some sort of race between lets say Spanish and English officials.

Do you think Karma, Rafa should be sued for saying the 4th official was too young to do is job?

Do think Wenger should be sued for the countless times he has said officials offer his players no protection?

Yes.
Yes I do.
Same way as I think all divers should be banned.

It's not needed in the game, and it turns me off.
Ferguson has a bad name for this,as he's been doing it longer than the rest.
Simple.

And as I said above, the fact that other managers have done it, doesn't excuse Ferguson.
He made a mistake, and he defamed a man who had done nothing wrong, in order to try and protect his team.
He has to be accountable for that.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yes.
Yes I do.
Same way as I think all divers should be banned.

It's not needed in the game, and it turns me off.
Ferguson has a bad name for this,as he's been doing it longer than the rest.
Simple.

And as I said above, the fact that other managers have done it, doesn't excuse Ferguson.
He made a mistake, and he defamed a man who had done nothing wrong, in order to try and protect his team.
He has to be accountable for that.

Fair enough, as long as you think it should be applied across the board.

Havn't seen you so vocal on it before with other managers though, how come?

By the way, this is a story because it's international week and the England team were beaten.

It will not get near a court, for 3 reasons.

1. It is a very hard thing to prove.
2. Money can tie up cases like this indefinately
3. It opens up a legal can of worms.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

WTF?

How is what other managers do beside the point?

If the association bring this to a legal level, should it not be a level playing field for all managers, experienced or not?

Is what Ferguson did wrong?

Yes.

Does other managers also doing wrong make it okay for Ferguson?

No.


It's quiet simple Boggles.
That defense didn't work for Nazi war criminals, so it sure as hell won't work for Fergie.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Is what Ferguson did wrong?

Yes.

Thats a matter of opinion, he compared the fitness levels of English refs compared to other counterparts.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

It's quiet simple Boggles.
That defense didn't work for Nazi war criminals, so it sure as hell won't work for Fergie.

Oh Dear. :rolleyes:

RasTa

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Is what Ferguson did wrong?

Yes.

Does other managers also doing wrong make it okay for Ferguson?

No.


It's quiet simple Boggles.
That defense didn't work for Nazi war criminals, so it sure as hell won't work for Fergie.

Gotta go with the classic.

The Muppet

Col MCFC wrote: »

But if you believe something for long enough it becomes true in your mind. Alex Ferguson believes what he comes out with; he's a narcissist . His reality may differ from almost everyone else but his reality, in his mind, is the reality. And that arrogance has played a big part in his success.

To lend a quote from another article focusing on this subject,


'If you believe that you have the best team in the country, a team six or seven goals better than the emerging force from the other side of town, a team that only ever drops points when the referee isn't up to scratch, then your players - presuming they also buy into that set of beliefs - will also act accordingly.

This perhaps explains why U***d often prove to be so strong when minds begin to tire in the second half of a long, hard season.

By refusing to accept most of their shortcomings over the previous six months, they still have the belief in their ability to get the job done and claim another league title when it gets down to the business end of the campaign.'

I doubt very much he has a personality diosorder, He's just the best there has ever been at his job. It's not a belief, Fegie's knows that he has the best team in the country for the last three years. He has earned the right to be little cocky/confident.

---

Slander LOL , they might get Giovani Di Stefano to take the case.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Thats a matter of opinion, he compared the fitness levels of English refs compared to other counterparts.

The very fact that you can even bring yourself to justify his actions like that proves how pointless it is to even talk to you about it.

I also love how you try and bait me into defending Rafa but when I don't just ignore it.

Classic Boggles.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

The very fact that you can even bring yourself to justify his actions like that proves how pointless it is to even talk to you about it.

I'm not justifying anything, I simply pointed out what he said and how it could be interrupted.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I also love how you try and bait me into defending Rafa but when I don't just ignore it.

No, I asked you why you weren't so vocal a couple of weeks ago when Rafa was slandering an official, you choose to ignore that though.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Classic Boggles.

Well there is one classic statement in this thread and it didn't come from me, comparing Nazis and Ferguson will probably take any limelight off me to be fair, very embarrasing even for you Karma.

lordgoat

So Sir Alex, i hear you're a nazi now. Hats off for that one.


Eh he'll get a ban or he won't no nig deal. Come May as the city fan above pointed out, this will have served to get the mental attitude right and the winning belief there, that other teams have lacked and fallen apart at this stage so often before. Hopefully it'll be number 4 in a row and we can view this as yet another SAF masterclass.

Nalz

The hulabaloo this caused amazes me! Ban or no ban it wont make a difference. It will be a small one if it comes to be a banning anyways.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

That defense didn't work for Nazi war criminals, so it sure as hell won't work for Fergie.

Mines a packet of salt and vinegar please

kryogen

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Slander Pronunciation [slan-der]

–noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

i bet you felt clever when you posted that eh

ah well, chin up

EDIT: oh lord, i just got to the nazi comparison......:(

anplaya

kryogen wrote: »

whats your logic here?

can you povide comparisons or other examples to base your conclusion or is this just more waffle?

short memory?bet ya felt clever when ya posted that too.:pac:

kryogen

anplaya wrote: »

short memory?bet ya felt clever when ya posted that too.:pac:

not really, did you not understand the post? mine was a question rather then an attempt at being a smart arse, my question was answered........ maybe you need to pay more attention?


actually, your post is little bit ironic dont ya think

anplaya

ye ya were being a smart arse and then the lad answered your question,ah dont take it to heart.

kryogen

anplaya wrote: »

ye ya were being a smart arse and then the lad answered your question,ah dont take it to heart.

seriously dude, read my post again, and again, until you get it! i take very little of whats said on these boards to heart, been banned enough times to let things go nowadays!

anplaya

kryogen wrote: »

seriously dude, read my post again, and again, until you get it! i take very little of whats said on these boards to heart, been banned enough times to let things go nowadays!

well let it go then so.:)

kryogen

anplaya wrote: »

well let it go then so.:)

cant....still.....a child......need to have......last word!!! there!!! i win

you wanna hug it out?

anplaya

sure ,why not.:) had a laugh off that one.

theres a story on skysports.com about referees union offical calling fergies apology half hearted ,wants him to get a severe punishment,dont know if its posted up or not.

kryogen

anplaya wrote: »

sure ,why not.:) had a laugh off that one.

theres a story on skysports.com about referees union offical calling fergies apology half hearted ,wants him to get a severe punishment,dont know if its posted up or not.

aye, it got reported a couple of days ago first if i remember correctly, the thing is, even if he gets a ban what difference does it make? managers have been banned from the touchline before, fines are insignificant to their salaries so i dont see how either of these is a deterrent to managers having a pop at officials in the future

What Fergie was trying to do is plainly obvious to everyone here i would imagine, just unfortunatly its an international break and England didnt have an important match so it gets the main media attention, im not saying he was right, but i am saying that regardless of his punishment (if any) and his warnings to future conduct, if he feels his team have played poorly he will deflect attention from that, as most other managers do in some way or another

anplaya

nah he was saying he wants a more uefa style coaching ban rather than just a touchline ban.

cant see that happening.

Nalz

anplaya wrote: »

nah he was saying he wants a more uefa style coaching ban rather than just a touchline ban.

How do that work!?

CR 7

Trilla wrote: »

How do that work!?

You have to be wheeled into the dressing room in a clothes basket at half time, i believe, can't find the relative legislation now though.

anplaya

Trilla wrote: »

How do that work!?

it basically said its a ban for a greater period,before,during and after a game.
whatever thats supposed to mean.

anplaya

the_pm_of_17 wrote: »

You have to be wheeled into the dressing room in a clothes basket at half time, i believe, can't find the relative legislation now though.

think its called 'how to do a Mourhino':D

kryogen

because im feeling sick and tired and cranky i would like to ask the question?

Where is Rafa's thread?

Do we not think its a disgrace that all he got for his defamatory gestures to an official that heas only warned to his future comment??

Come on guys!!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5626243,00.html

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has been warned as to his future conduct following a gesture made at referee Phil Dowd.

The Spaniard has been cleared of two of three Football Association charges brought against him following incidents in Liverpool's defeat by Tottenham on 16th August.

But Benitez was found guilty of misconduct relating to the third - a gesture made with a pair of spectacles which was deemed to be offensive.

The disciplinary commission stated: "A regulatory commission of the FA has found Mr Rafael Benitez guilty of misconduct in relation to a breach of FA Rule E3, arising out of a gesture made by him during a post-match briefing. The commission concluded the gesture was objectively offensive.

"The commission noted Mr Benitez's previous exemplary disciplinary record over 23 years as a coach and manager at the highest level of the sport.

"Taking into account all relevant factors, the commission concluded that the appropriate penalty was to warn Mr Benitez as to his future conduct with regards to interviews and press briefings."

Liverpool insisted, however, that the commission accepted Benitez was merely trying to be funny.

A statement on the club's website read: "The Commission found that two of the allegations relating to comments made about the match referee were not proven and therefore dismissed.

"On a third, the commission accepted that a gesture made with a pair of spectacles was 'in a non-malicious and humorous manner' and taking into account Mr Benitez's previous unblemished record, warned him about his future conduct. No fine was imposed or costs awarded against the Liverpool manager.

"The commission also expressed their surprise at the failure of the FA to charge another manager who had made a similar gesture the same weekend."

Mr Alan

it was a gesture in an interview, not at the ref.

he was asked a question by geoff shreeves or whoever. he took of his glasses. he has been warned for it. strange.

almost as bad as those gestures of his toward big sam!

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

it was a gesture in an interview, not at the ref.

he was asked a question by geoff shreeves or whoever. he took of his glasses. he has been warned for it. strange.

almost as bad as those gestures of his toward big sam!

personally i think a jail sentence would be closer to the real punishment proportionate to the crime!

i mean, if he had even thrown in a "should have gone to specsavers mate" i could defend him but i feel his position in the game of football is now untenable and i for one cannot believe the club are standing by him after this latest debacle

Mr Alan

beyond the pale that Rafa fella.

Corben Dallas

Apology wont save him. He should get a min 3 match touchline ban, with no contact with the bench during those games.

Calling the ref unfit ((mainly cause his team was not winning (+to deflect attention from this)) is bordering on slander, and by adding that Euro refs are fit as butchers dogs etc... hes possibly slandering all Premier League refs.

SAF is in a league of his own, with the amount of abuse/ panhandling/ huranging/ cajouling and general coercion of Ref/linesmen/4th Official during his time at ManU (and gained unfair advantage) that he absolutely deserves a ban.

when's the hearing?

kida

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Apology wont save him. He should get a min 3 match touchline ban, with no contact with the bench during those games.

is that possible in PL?

Mitch Connor

kida wrote: »

is that possible in PL?

why does that matter? clearly new rules and procedures should be made up to punish him.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

why does that matter? clearly new rules and procedures should be made up to punish him.

hear hear!! i for one think we should protest outside OT and call for his immediate dismissal. its only right, i mean it is Sir Alex Ferguson, he must surely be treated differently to the rest!

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

hear hear!! i for one think we should protest outside OT and call for his immediate dismissal. its only right, i mean it is Sir Alex Ferguson, he must surely be treated differently to the rest!

He's just lucky he didn't say or imply the ref made biased calls or terrible calls, nothing short of his head removed from his body would do then.