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Worst Killers of the Troubles

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    #122
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    S-Murph wrote: »
    I dont care about what numbers you pluck from the air to suit your agenda.

    Infact ill do just the same here:

    The overwhelming majority, the people, have popular support for the INLA.

    1.5 million people. 94% of the turn out. Voted for the Good Friday Agreement, part of which was a constitutional change were we willing agreed to drop our claim to NI as part of our national constitution.

    You can deny this, but the fact remains, the INLA and the IRSP are now a footnote in history. Thankfully.


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    #123
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Diogenes wrote: »
    1.5 million people. 94% of the turn out. Voted for the Good Friday Agreement, part of which was a constitutional change were we willing agreed to drop our claim to NI as part of our national constitution.

    You can deny this, but the fact remains, the INLA and the IRSP are now a footnote in history. Thankfully.

    Not at all. The INLA are the centre of history with mass popular and democratic support.

    And around we go again.


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    #124
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Its not hypocritical because you do not know my reasons for 'selecting' that group.

    And even if you did know my reasons, they would be no less valid than yours - and thats my point. Your numbers dont mean f all to me.

    If you want to argue your position, argue the constructivity of your violence, not how many support it.
    I'm not arguing for violence as an means to an end. Quite the opposite. I'm pointing out what exactly, as proven by consensus, the inhabitants of this entire island want (allegedly these inhabitants are who said killers in question purport to represent).
    And guess what, the idiots with the working weapons just won't listen.

    "The overwhelming majority, the people, have popular support for the INLA" - This quote just proves how deluded this bunch and their apologists are.


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    #125
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Not at all. The INLA are the centre of history with mass popular and democratic support.

    And around we go again.

    And I've cited the hundreds of thousands of people who voted to reject the aims of the INLA, you apparently have yourself and your imaginary friends.


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    #126
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Justind wrote: »
    I'm not arguing for violence as an means to an end. Quite the opposite.

    If you support the existence of the Irish state, then thats exactly what you are doing.
    I'm pointing out what exactly, as proven by consensus, the inhabitants of this entire island want

    Circular. The inhabitants of the IRSM, proven by consensus, support the violence of the INLA.
    And guess what, the idiots with the working weapons just won't listen.

    Oh you can say that again. Thugs with uniforms.
    "The overwhelming majority, the people, have popular support for the INLA" - This quote just proves how deluded this bunch and their apologists are.

    Im not using that type of logic to justify my views, you are. Im just showing your folly.


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    #127
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Not at all. The INLA are the centre of history with mass popular and democratic support.
    No they're not. I've seen many silly things posted here (it's a Politics board after all) but claiming that the INLA have mass popular and democratic support is on the far side of Saturn as spaced comments go.

    And that's nothing to do with my view of the INLA or any of their crappy splinter groups as being little above a bunch of retarded violent loon thugs still shooting people in 2009 for drug-dealing while Whacker Duffy criticises them for supposedly making investigations into their own members running drug rings because they didn't ask him first. Having spent thirty years doing things that the Provos wouldn't even have stooped to, calling them common thugs is an insult to common thugs. And with the pathetic amount of people the Irps get at their annual meetings they can't reasonably claim to represent anyone other than their fellow Irps.

    Centre of history my ass - they're remembered as a shower of knuckle dragging idiots. And justifiably at that. Even sane fellow travellers of the Republican movement and/or Marxist preachers wouldn't have anything to do with them.


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    #128
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Diogenes wrote: »
    And I've cited the hundreds of thousands of people who voted to reject the aims of the INLA, you apparently have yourself and your imaginary friends.

    Again, pluck numbers all you want. They mean F all to me.


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    #129
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    sceptre wrote: »
    No they're not. I've seen many silly things posted here (it's a Politics board after all) but claiming that the INLA have mass popular and democratic support is on the far side of Saturn as spaced comments go.

    Ill tell you what sceptre. Read through the thread and then come back to me because you dont know the background to that comment I made.

    Your comment was one of ignorance.


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    #130
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Again, pluck numbers all you want. They mean F all to me.

    94% of the people voting on the Good Friday agreement voted for it. They voted in part to remove our constitutional claim to NI. Thats not plucking numbers, those are one of those pesky fact things.

    You seem to be doing a impression of a Grecian urn, sticking your figures in your ears and going "LA LA LA LA EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME" and ignoring reality.


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    #131
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Diogenes wrote: »
    94% of the people voting on the Good Friday agreement voted for it. They voted in part to remove our constitutional claim to NI. Thats not plucking numbers, those are one of those pesky fact things.

    You seem to be doing a impression of a Grecian urn, sticking your figures in your ears and going "LA LA LA LA EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME" and ignoring reality.

    Im not. As I said, the overwhelming majority of the people, democratically, have popular support for the INLA.

    We can do this all day, as I said.

    Numbers dont cut it.


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    #132
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Your comment was one of ignorance.
    Ignorance is ignoring willfully or unintentionally - doesn't matter which - the will of the people these c***s and their apologists claim to represent and delusionally believe support them.

    People have spoken. Try listening for a change. "Numbers don't cut it"? Sadly (for you) they do. You cannot even begin to understand the meaning of the word 'democratic'. Every time you bandy it, you sully it like you and your delusional heroes sully the word 'Irish' with each killing, drug deal, kidnapping and robbery ever committed.

    You're not wanted. It really is that simple.


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    #133
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Justind wrote: »
    Ignorance is ignoring willfully or unintentionally - doesn't matter which - the will of the people these c***s and their apologists claim to represent and delusionally believe support them.

    People have spoken. Try listening for a change. "Numbers don't cut it"? Sadly (for you) they do. You cannot even begin to understand the meaning of the word 'democratic'. Every time you bandy it, you sully it like you and your delusional heroes sully the word 'Irish' with each killing, drug deal, kidnapping and robbery ever committed.

    You're not wanted. It really is that simple.


    They dont cut it. Thats why your argument is circular. Indeed, thats why there is so many complex conflicts around the world. Its more than just head counts. But you just dont get that with your simplistic and blinkered ideology.


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    #134
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Ill tell you what sceptre. Read through the thread and then come back to me because you dont know the background to that comment I made.
    I'll pass. I tend to read the nonsensical things on this board only once.
    Your comment was one of ignorance.
    Heavens no, I'm well old enough to remember the knuckle draggers making their greatest noise in the late 70s and early 80s. They barely had a mandate to paint street corners with graffiti and they still pretended they were the messiah group of Northern Ireland - not that it stopped them killing Gardaí down here either. No popular support apart from getting the odd councillor elected (which counts for essentially nothing, even if you count then as now) and even Gerry Adams doesn't believe their declaration of a ceasefire (well, purported end of armed campaign to be precise about it). And then there's their continued involvement in criminality and lack of support for the democratic view of people on both sides of the border with their refusal to recognise or have any regard for the GFA. Outside common sense, outside a mandate and I haven't even touched on their economic views (which I'm less inclined to do as that's a view that at least doesn't involve shootings or punishment beatings, which wasn't ever very acceptable but definitely isn't in 2009).

    The INLA are a shower of thugs. The IRSP are at best a shower that support a shower of thugs. The IRSCs are Americans that fund a shower of thugs. And the RSYMs are at best a young shower who support a shower of thugs. That's your IRSM. Founded by Seamus Costello on a base of thuggery - even the OIRA didn't want him and that's why they shot him. Anti-GFA, anti-Peace Process, pro little more than common or garden thuggery. And worse still, in 2009, they're bringing youngsters into this ball of ****e and people like Colm Mistéil and Mike Quinn still organising meetings and fundraisers in North America.

    The IRSP/INLA have always wanted war and they still do - you only have to look at the motion from the 2000 IRSP Ard Fheis to see they they don't believe in a parliamentary route to socialism. But amazingly it said that they also didn't believe in a guerilla road to socialism either - the amazing part of that is theat they appear to see punishment beatings as a road to something. They don't see themselves as being within the law. They don't see themselves as being subject to the democratic wishes of people on this island. They shoot, they maim and they were always more brutal then their former nu-IRA colleagues. They've always been scumbag thugs.

    Blinkered ideology? I only use that phrase entirely without irony.


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    #135
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    sceptre wrote: »
    I'll pass. I tend to read the nonsensical things on this board only once.


    Heavens no, I'm well old enough to remember the knuckle draggers making their greatest noise in the late 70s and early 80s. They barely had a mandate to paint street corners with graffiti and they still pretended they were the messiah group of Northern Ireland - not that it stopped them killing Gardaí down here either. No popular support apart from getting the odd councillor elected (which counts for essentially nothing, even if you count then as now) and even Gerry Adams doesn't believe their declaration of a ceasefire. And then there's their continued involvement in criminality and lack of support for the democratic view of people on both sides of the border with their refusal to recognise or have any regard for the GFA. Outside common sense, outside a mandate and I haven't even touched on their economic views (which I'm less inclined to do as that's a view that at least doesn't involve shootings or punishment beatings, which wasn't ever very acceptable but definitely isn't in 2009).

    The INLA are a shower of thugs. The IRSP are at best a shower that support a shower of thugs. The IRSCs are Americans that fund a shower of thugs. And the RSYMs are at best a young shower who support a shower of thugs. That's your IRSM. Founded by Seamus Costello on a base of thuggery - even the OIRA didn't want him and that's why they shot him. Anti-GFA, anti-Peace Process, pro little more than common or garden thuggery. And worse still, in 2009, they're bringing youngsters into this ball of ****e and people like Colm Mistéil and Mike Quinn still organising meetings and fundraisers in North America.

    The IRSP/INLA have always wanted war and they still do - you only have to look at the motion from the 2000 IRSP Ard Fheis to see they they don't believe in a parliamentary route to socialism. But amazingly it said that they also didn't believe in a guerilla road to socialism either - the amazing part of that is theat they appear to see punishment beatings as a road to something. They don't see themselves as being within the law. They don't see themselves as being subject to the democratic wishes of people on this island. They shoot, they maim and they were always more brutal then their former nu-IRA colleagues. They've always been scumbag thugs.

    Blinkered ideology? I only use that phrase entirely without irony.

    Read through the thread. I have no desire to go round in circles with your constitutional constraints. Its ironic, because the above is coming from somebody who supports a state of mass violence and terror.


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    #136
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Im not. As I said, the overwhelming majority of the people, democratically, have popular support for the INLA.

    We can do this all day, as I said.

    Numbers dont cut it.

    You're being completely inconsistent. If you are claiming that the INLA have the overwhelming democrat support from the people then number do "cut it". Numbers you have consistently failed to show.


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    #137
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Its ironic, because the above is coming from somebody who supports a state of mass violence and terror.
    Dude, you've taken your posts to the dark forest bits of wackyland, where the wackyland wolves dare not go. Send a postcard.


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    #138
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    I think our communist friend is arguing that our various claims about the wishes of the majority are ill founded because we are somehow using our own self serving notion of what we mean by the majority. He suggests he can make similar claims for his viewpoint using his own (unspecified) notion, hence his rather bizarre claim re: INLA support.
    Now if he only would (could?) be a little more specific. We cite democratic election results. He dismissed these as our social constructs. But what can he cite?


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    #139
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    sceptre wrote: »
    Dude, you've taken your posts to the dark forest bits of wackyland, where the wackyland wolves dare not go. Send a postcard.

    I think he's left wacklyland and is about to be asked for passport at the border crossing for crazyland.


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    #140
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    S-Murph wrote: »



    Circular. The inhabitants of the IRSM, proven by consensus, support the violence of the INLA.


    Where do the inhabitants of IRSM live?


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    #141
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    S-Murph wrote: »
    They dont cut it. Thats why your argument is circular. Indeed, thats why there is so many complex conflicts around the world. Its more than just head counts. But you just dont get that with your simplistic and blinkered ideology.

    emm....by the 80's the INLA had disentegrated into a shower of gougers who were too busy planning to whack each other than anything else. They had virtually no support amongst the community. They have virtually no support in the Republican community. My own feeling is that the PIRA didn't deal harshly enough with certain elements with the INLA/IPLO when they moved against the IPLO etc. Paris is a big city, and it could have taken a few more in.


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    #142
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Where do the inhabitants of IRSM live?

    In about a dozen places...averaging maybe a member in each. Suffice to say meetings run well when everyone knows everyone else.


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    #143
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Diogenes wrote: »
    You're being completely inconsistent. If you are claiming that the INLA have the overwhelming democrat support from the people then number do "cut it". Numbers you have consistently failed to show.

    No im outling how using such circular arbitrary and realtive definitions is pointless. Im totally consistent.

    You dont seem to have gotten that yet.


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    #144
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    sceptre wrote: »
    Dude, you've taken your posts to the dark forest bits of wackyland, where the wackyland wolves dare not go. Send a postcard.

    So have you. Afterall, we live in a non-violent utopia of free transactions.


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    #145
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Nodin wrote: »
    emm....by the 80's the INLA had disentegrated into a shower of gougers who were too busy planning to whack each other than anything else. They had virtually no support amongst the community. They have virtually no support in the Republican community. My own feeling is that the PIRA didn't deal harshly enough with certain elements with the INLA/IPLO when they moved against the IPLO etc. Paris is a big city, and it could have taken a few more in.

    You make a point. I wont entirely disagree.

    I dont believe the conditions, or the INLA presently are the same. Besides, im talking about the future of the organisation. The past is the past.


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    #146
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Where do the inhabitants of IRSM live?

    On a land mass we call the earth.


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    #147
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Not at all. The INLA are the centre of history with mass popular and democratic support.

    And around we go again.

    Compared to the INLA, FF is going to be relected with a landslide majority next election tbh.


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    #148
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    lugha wrote: »
    I think our communist friend is arguing that our various claims about the wishes of the majority are ill founded because we are somehow using our own self serving notion of what we mean by the majority. He suggests he can make similar claims for his viewpoint using his own (unspecified) notion, hence his rather bizarre claim re: INLA support.
    Now if he only would (could?) be a little more specific. We cite democratic election results. He dismissed these as our social constructs. But what can he cite?

    Im glad Lugha you have outlined that.

    I can cite the results from IRSM Ard Fheis.

    But, im not using the ard fheis to justify INLA violence. Meanwhile, you lot are using state elections to justify the state.

    I want to move on from the circular arguments you use. Get used to it. Your "people" and "state" are not absolute.


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    #149
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    nesf wrote: »
    Compared to the INLA, FF is going to be relected with a landslide majority next election tbh.

    Read the thread. I dont care about what numbers you pluck to suit your position. Such reasiing is circular - hence page 10 of this thread.


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    #150
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    S-Murph wrote: »
    Read the thread. I dont care about what numbers you pluck to suit your position. Such reasiing is circular - hence page 10 of this thread.

    Indeed, why bring facts into the matter!


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    #151
    S-Murph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭S-Murph


    nesf wrote: »
    Indeed, why bring facts into the matter!

    They are not facts, they are social constructs selected to suit your position.

    For the nth time. We can all make up these ""facts"".


This discussion has been closed.
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