Vegans & alcohol

darc

Just a question -

Do any vegans here have a problem with their body system processing alcohol?

e.g. If you drank a bottle of wine over about 1 1/2 hours would it have anyy other affect except for normaly mild alcohol affects.

A friend of mine is a vegan and she has a type of stillness / numbness for approx. 30 second - 2 minutes after she has had over a certain number of drinks (changes with amount of food eaten and is affected by smoking) Doc says its due to absense of 1st class protein and not being able to break down alcohol as well as a carnivore.

any comments / experiences?

Thoushaltnot

darc wrote: »

Just a question -

Do any vegans here have a problem with their body system processing alcohol?

e.g. If you drank a bottle of wine over about 1 1/2 hours would it have anyy other affect except for normaly mild alcohol affects.

First, I'm not a vegan but general rule of thumb is that the more muscle mass you have, the more alcohol you can handle.

A friend of mine is a vegan and she has a type of stillness / numbness for approx. 30 second - 2 minutes after she has had over a certain number of drinks (changes with amount of food eaten and is affected by smoking) Doc says its due to absense of 1st class protein and not being able to break down alcohol as well as a carnivore.

any comments / experiences?

Er, my first instinct is that that is a nerve/B12 deficiency problem and I'd get that checked out quick sharpish.
Secondly, I'm not sure what her doc means by 'absence' of 1st class protein* but if I had to guess, I'd say her diet is not quite what it could be and she'd need to up her vegan protein intake, anyhoo.

I've also read of women, from late 20's on, developing an intolerance to alcohol. My ability has gone to the dogs over the last 5 years, so that could be a factor too.


* Actually, I know he means 'meat' here but you can make protein perfectly well by from vegan sources and including a good range of foods, so that initially sounds a bit backward.

sweet-rasmus

am vegan myself and have never heard of such an issue. would love to hear more detail about this protein.

darc

she's been veggie for 30 years and vegan for about 8. I had read something in new scientist a couple of years ago about smoking / vegetarians / alcohol and how a combination of such can have a trance affect in some people.

Her diet is quite excellent - as is mine but with a wee but of the unmentional 1st class protein stuff on the side.

Has no long lasting effect - infact within 1 minute its gone, but can return if shes takes a further drink.

Its more of interest than of any major health concern - all annual health checks are near perfect.

entropi

darc wrote: »

Just a question -

Do any vegans here have a problem with their body system processing alcohol?

e.g. If you drank a bottle of wine over about 1 1/2 hours would it have anyy other affect except for normaly mild alcohol affects.

any comments / experiences?

Right i'm vegetarian but have studied a fair bit of physiology during college...

Most people, regardless of being carnivore/vegan/veggie will take approx 1h to detoxify 1 unit of alcohol.

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Er, my first instinct is that that is a nerve/B12 deficiency problem and I'd get that checked out quick sharpish.
Secondly, I'm not sure what her doc means by 'absence' of 1st class protein* but if I had to guess, I'd say her diet is not quite what it could be and she'd need to up her vegan protein intake, anyhoo.

My first instinct here was that it could be a nerve problem, and it should be checked out asap! Although deficiencies may be present, i could not rule out anything else happening here.

The GP does sound a little backward of sorts with his approach to protein intake, and really should look up how vegans and vegetarians can get sufficient protein intake without resorting to the old "non meat eating" problem.

Problems with processing alcohol usually lie in the liver, and then kidneys but it doesnt sound like that would be the problem here. Nervous problems spring to mind, and nobody should delay in seeing a GP even if for referral to a specialist.

ztoical

darc wrote: »

) Doc says its due to absense of 1st class protein and not being able to break down alcohol as well as a carnivore.

Sounds like her Doctor is a little silly or your friend is telling you fibs about what they were told....humans aren't carnivores for start, the majority are omnivores and a smaller % is vegetarian/vegan. First class proteins is an obsolete system of classifying proteins so her Doc might need to go back for a refresher course. Some claim that foods with fats and/or proteins slow alcohol absorption but most studies have food the type of food, whether fat, carbohydrate, or protein, does not factor in the absorption of alcohol. Your friends, weight, over all health, smoking, family history etc are all factors not just her diet.

Getwellsoon

Does this always happen without fail? Or does it depend on how much she has eaten beforehand? I've never felt numb or trancelike, but I certainly do have to eat a lot before drinking if I want to drink for a long time, or it goes straight to my head!

Maybe you should ask on the main nutrition forum and do some more general research, to find out if anyone who eats meat actually gets this problem. Because it might not be because she's a vegan at all...

kmick

A bottle of wine in 90 minutes is her problem. Thats 10 units of alcohol in 90 minutes. We would all be fairly numb after that.

Mentalmiss

darc wrote: »

s


Her diet is quite excellent - as is mine but with a wee but of the unmentional 1st class protein stuff on the side.


.

You should call a spade a spade and refer to it as what it is "dead animal protein".
I had to google it.

Mentalmiss

Having said that I was never able to hold much alcohol myself (did try hard) and am now down to having a limit of 2 bottles of Weston Organic Cider at the time. Any more than that and the day after is a waste of time for me.
I do consider alcohol to be a poison to the system and we would all be better off without it but I am Irish so I have a duty to my race to try.
I only indulge every couple of weeks out of respect for my health and think that I will give up totally shortly as the response does depend on the food in your system and me being a raw food eater do not have much soakage.

When I'm getting drunk, I have a point where I am aware of the physical reactions to the alcohol, and then quickly I pass the point where I am able to sense that.
Now I feel the blood vessels in my face swelling maybe the numbness is her reaction.

darc

kmick wrote: »

A bottle of wine in 90 minutes is her problem. Thats 10 units of alcohol in 90 minutes. We would all be fairly numb after that.

A bottle of wine is about 8 units - 3 / 4 glasses of wine with dinner over 1 & 1/2 hours should not cause a problem for anybody except for normal relaxing affect of the alcohol. If she is not eating the numbness comes after 2 glasses of wine. lasts 30 seconds and after that back to total normality.

Have done some more researching and the B12 deficiency answer seems to be neaar to the mark can be exarcerated by smoking and can cause side effects in some people. - I'm trying to find the specific study paper and will post when I get it.

As for her doctor - GP's in their nature know a little about a lot of things hence the word "General" and her general health always comes up near perfect (has to have annual checks for her job). Generally the feeling is that she simply just cannot drink as much as others - this is a problem as she likes her wine very much:D!

Methinks a large dolop of marmite before each glass should work!

Thoushaltnot

darc wrote: »

Have done some more researching and the B12 deficiency answer seems to be nearer to the mark can be exarcerated by smoking and can cause side effects in some people. - I'm trying to find the specific study paper and will post when I get it.

Please do. I'd like to see that paper!

mcaul

This may help you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1785739/

Mellor

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

* Actually, I know he means 'meat' here but you can make protein perfectly well by from vegan sources and including a good range of foods, so that initially sounds a bit backward.

Master of Nothing wrote: »

The GP does sound a little backward of sorts with his approach to protein intake, and really should look up how vegans and vegetarians can get sufficient protein intake without resorting to the old "non meat eating" problem.

We all know Vegans can get enough protein,.

But we also know that not all do. I know a veggie that literally eats only fruits and veg. No eggs, no nuts, no soya.
She avoids milk too. So she gets feck all protien, I've told her this a lot.

Thoushaltnot

Right,
your friend sounds like a vegan and not a regular vegetarian, so that would explain the lack of milk/eggs.

If she's vegan, for ethical reasons (and they usually are), remind her that it's something of a duty for her to get informed and get her diet right.

Otherwise, if she collapses/suffers any other ill effects due to being not much more than a fruitarian, then she's providing an example for anti-veggie folks to point at and say "see, it's not natural, peoples need their lovely meat".

And they will.

Put it to her like that.

If it doesn't, I'd consider that she may be anorexic and hiding behind "ethical dietry choices". Anorexia isn't limited to the purely teenager/20-something person.

darc

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Right,
your friend sounds like a vegan and not a regular vegetarian, so that would explain the lack of milk/eggs.

If she's vegan, for ethical reasons (and they usually are), remind her that it's something of a duty for her to get informed and get her diet right.

Otherwise, if she collapses/suffers any other ill effects due to being not much more than a fruitarian, then she's providing an example for anti-veggie folks to point at and say "see, it's not natural, peoples need their lovely meat".

And they will.

Put it to her like that.

If it doesn't, I'd consider that she may be anorexic and hiding behind "ethical dietry choices". Anorexia isn't limited to the purely teenager/20-something person.

Certainly not anorexic -

Not vegan for ethical reason - just has had a dislike for meat since a child and then decided to go off dairy about 8 years ago.

General diet is EXCELLENT, (sh1t loads of veg, pulses, nuts, fruit, grains & pasta) health is EXCELLENT, except we've found out that it is more than likely a cause of B12 deficiency and she'll be taking B12 supplements from today to see if it make a difference.

-lala-

darc wrote: »

Certainly not anorexic -

Not vegan for ethical reason - just has had a dislike for meat since a child and then decided to go off dairy about 8 years ago.

General diet is EXCELLENT, (sh1t loads of veg, pulses, nuts, fruit, grains & pasta) health is EXCELLENT, except we've found out that it is more than likely a cause of B12 deficiency and she'll be taking B12 supplements from today to see if it make a difference.

I assume Thoushaltnot was referring to Mellor's post.... could be wrong of course but that's what it looks like to me!

Glad to know the apparent cause of the problem has been found, but remember, alcohol has funny effects on lots of people. Not just vegans! I agree with Mentalmiss that it is a poison to the system, and I do think society in general would be better off without it. But anyway, that's somewhat beside the point.

Mellor

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Right,
your friend sounds like a vegan and not a regular vegetarian, so that would explain the lack of milk/eggs.

If she's vegan, for ethical reasons (and they usually are), remind her that it's something of a duty for her to get informed and get her diet right.

Otherwise, if she collapses/suffers any other ill effects due to being not much more than a fruitarian, then she's providing an example for anti-veggie folks to point at and say "see, it's not natural, peoples need their lovely meat".

And they will.

Put it to her like that.

If it doesn't, I'd consider that she may be anorexic and hiding behind "ethical dietry choices". Anorexia isn't limited to the purely teenager/20-something person.

Not a vegan, has no ethical problem eating dairy (cheese is fine etc) and eggs. She just doesn't happen to be very fond of eggs themselves, and milk doesn't tend to feature much in alot of diets. I have no problem with it but only eat it with tea for example, use soya from time to time the jury is still out on that one.