ROIs playoff for 2010 World Cup.. teams to avoid?

GLaDOS

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland are gonna get killed - more than once, unless some sort of transformation takes place.

In fairness, people have been saying this sort of thing for our entire qualification campaign

briany

I can't see Ireland being "Killed" but I'm fearful of another anti-climactic and gutless display like we saw tonight. Now I know that there was nothing on the line and we had players out but cast your collective minds back to 2005 when we played Switzerland at home and a similarly gutless display with a World Cup playoff place very much on the line. Still i'd love to see us grind out a good result away from home and then I think that could set off an electric night in Croke Park but that's provided we get the away leg first and the players rise to the occasion.

Another thing is that, I don't know who will agree with me here but I really think that Duff is past his prime. He's still a good player but I was very impressed with McGeady on saturday night. Everytime he made a run he looked like he could make something happen, maybe he wasn't great with the final ball but just to get that position even. He was giving the Italian defense a real real headache from what I could see. Him, Hunt/Lawrence, S Reid, Whelan,St Ledger,Dunne,O Shea,Kilbane,Doyle and Keane. If those were the players starting in both playoff games then I would give Ireland every chance and then it's just a matter of whether they would rise to the occasion and take it.

heyjude

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland are gonna get killed - more than once, unless some sort of transformation takes place.

Hopefully they'll play 100% better than tonight and won't get killed, but I have serious doubts given the way they have been playing whether they are capable of getting a lead and holding onto it. How many times in the group did they take a lead and then allow the other team back into it ? Unless, they're going to play for penalties in the second game, they're probably going to have to win one of the legs and get a draw in the other game.

They also seem to lack a plan B and so if they do fall a goal or two behind, I don't see much on the bench to change things around. In any case, I wouldn't fancy us against France or Russia, so for me I'd prefer Greece with Portugal as 2nd choice.

I also hope that we get strong referees from one of the big countries for the two playoff games, as I'd fear that a referee from a smaller country(knowing that FIFA want certain countries to qualify), might be influenced into giving a soft penalty (to the likes of France/Portugal), in the later stages of a playoff game, if the sides are still level. I think a ref from somewhere like Germany or Italy would be less likely to be influenced by such pressure.

Mr.Nice Guy

Putting ourselves in the shoes of the seeded teams, what have they got to fear from us exactly? No creativity from the centre of the park, hoof ball tactics, OK we can get physical but our main threat is from set pieces. Can't see Russia or France quaking in their boots about that.

The reality is we never really produced any top notch performances throughout the group campaign.

It's looking increasingly likely that we have reached our limit by making these play-offs. I wouldn't be too optimistic at this stage even if we get the Greek draw we want.

parker kent

The overwhelming negativity about our chances of getting to the world cup remind me of how Dunphy used to slate Ronaldo 2-3 years ago. Regularly he would say something along the lines of "Tonight is the night great players perform and he is not a great player/the men are sorted from the boys tonight etc". This was usually followed by Ronaldo scoring a crucial goal. The game against Roma where he scored a great header is a good example, I remember he gave him an awful going over before the game only to say afterwards that it didn't count because Roma were no good. The 7-1 game aginst Roma is another example.

So before this looks like an incoherent ramble...people are coming on here before every qualifier, saying we will get "killed" or have "reached our limit" only for us to remain unbeaten and in with a good shout of getting there. Before the Italy game we were told we would be hammered and our best bet was to hope for a gentleman's agreement or go for damage limitation. Then it happened and we were seconds from beating the world champions. Poor midfield performance granted, but a creditable draw nonetheless and almost a good win.

What I think is that we stand a reasonable chance of qualifying. Depending on the draw, this might increase. Barring Spain, there is not a significant difference between any team in Europe. Ireland are tough to beat and as such will be in with a shout against any of the 4 potential teams.

Is it really beyond all expectations to see Ireland grind out a score draw away from home (goal from a set piece etc) and then hold them scoreless at Croke Park? I agree that we could easily lose (I'd say 60/40 in favour of not making it) but still, this "we will be destroyed" attitude that prevails is just annoying. We are still unbeaten in qualifying, despite playing the World Champions twice. Teams might not fear us, but they will respect us and see are difficult to beat. Arshavin said as much in an interview today about how his knowledge of English football tells him he wants to avoid us in the draw.

Mr.Nice Guy

Isn't this "We have remained unbeaten" line of thinking just more spin from the "it's all about results" crowd? Is it really negativity to point out the shortcomings over the course of the campaign and to be concerned by them?

Let's remind ourselves of the ten qualifying games we've played:

Georgia 1 Ireland 2

A game in which we were lucky enough to be at a neutral venue, Whelan and Ireland got what turned out to be the winner thanks to an awful howler from the keeper who let it spill into his own net. We gave away a soft goal at the end which thankfully was not too costly as it was backs to the wall stuff late on. We were lucky to leave with all 3 points.

Montenegro 0 Ireland 0

A far from vintage performance here, though the point was welcome and as I recall the result was seen largely as a positive.

Ireland 1 Cyprus 0

This was the game best remembered for Whelan and Gibson being sucked into a black hole in the middle of the pitch never to be seen again. As the BBC reported, "Robbie Keane's goal helped the Republic of Ireland claim a vital World Cup qualifying win over Cyprus but it was an unconvincing display by the Irish."

Ireland 2 Georgia 1

This was the game best remembered for that poor Georgian player having a ridiculous penalty given against him which helped us take all 3 points. Again the BBC reported, "...in the second half it was a penalty which threw a frustrated Irish side a generous lifeline."

Ireland 1 Bulgaria 1

A game in which Stiliyan Petrov dominated proceedings it's fair to say, we almost won the match having gone in front early but an OG by Kilbane meant it was all square. We could hardly complain about the result.

Italy 1 Ireland 1

Probably our finest performance in the campaign but it must be said we once again enjoyed huge fortune with Italy's Pazzini being harshly sent off early on for an innocuous challenge with O'Shea. Having gone behind we did well to land a late goal.

Bulgaria 1 Ireland 1

After a bright start this game is perhaps best remembered for how in the last 30 minutes the team essentially sat back and invited Bulgaria on. We defended well to get the point but it was hardly a fabulous effort from the team.

Cyprus 1 Ireland 2

A dire performance from the team here who managed to nick a winner thanks to more poor goalkeeping. As the BBC report stated, "...it was an unconvincing display by Giovanni Trapattoni's side with creative midfield play almost completely absent from the visitors."

If that late goal had not come about I reckon there would have been uproar over this display.

Ireland 2 Italy 2 & Ireland 0 Montenegro 0

The recent games which sealed our play-off spot which I'm sure you remember. Hardly set the world alight in either game let's be honest.




So then, after that quick recap, tell me where is this optimism for the play-offs coming from? I don't get it and I think we we need to see past simple statements like, "it's the results that matter" or "we were unbeaten in the group".

Sorry to be blunt here but...so what? Nothing to say about the manner in which we got those results?

We didn't produce one display of note that ought to give the likes of Russia or France major concerns. It is not being cynical or negative to point this out, it is simply being realistic and honest.

Frisbee

parker kent wrote: »

Arshavin said as much in an interview today about how his knowledge of English football tells him he wants to avoid us in the draw.

Link?

parker kent

Re Mr. Nice Guy...you could easily say the same about almost any team that qualifies for any tournament. No team plays swashbuckling, champagne football 365 days a year. Spain have had some poor performances in qualifying, let alone Ireland. I said in my post that there is a good chance we would be beaten. I said it was 60-40 in favour of us not making it so I did infer that we were not exactly Brazil 1970 with a dash of Hungary 54 and AC Milan 94 for good measure. I can see our limitations.

But I could just as easily dig up match reports about how poor France, Portugal etc have played in qualifying. Greece won Euro 2004 playing awful, awful football. What I am saying is that results do matter when it comes to qualifying for tournaments, and we have been getting the results. Nobody has run amok against us in the qualifiers. To completely rule out the chances of Ireland nicking a result is just silly imo.

Before the Italy game, people had us going to be smashed. It didn't happen. We competed and almost got the win. You can't ignore results because that is what makes and breaks a team. Who cares that Germany were rubbish in the group stages in 1974? Nobody because they won the tournament. Same for any team that gets the result, the performance is forgotten over time.

There is no need for that negativity. It is football, you always have a chance. We are reasonably well organized and have a sprinkling of good players. That is enough to qualify. Look at the Swiss for example. Decent pros that are organized well by an experienced coach. Same as Ireland. We CAN do it. Not saying we will but we defo can qualify.

dreamers75

parker kent wrote: »

The overwhelming negativity about our chances of getting to the world cup remind me of how Dunphy used to slate Ronaldo 2-3 years ago. Regularly he would say something along the lines of "Tonight is the night great players perform and he is not a great player/the men are sorted from the boys tonight etc". This was usually followed by Ronaldo scoring a crucial goal. The game against Roma where he scored a great header is a good example, I remember he gave him an awful going over before the game only to say afterwards that it didn't count because Roma were no good. The 7-1 game aginst Roma is another example.

So before this looks like an incoherent ramble...people are coming on here before every qualifier, saying we will get "killed" or have "reached our limit" only for us to remain unbeaten and in with a good shout of getting there. Before the Italy game we were told we would be hammered and our best bet was to hope for a gentleman's agreement or go for damage limitation. Then it happened and we were seconds from beating the world champions. Poor midfield performance granted, but a creditable draw nonetheless and almost a good win.

What I think is that we stand a reasonable chance of qualifying. Depending on the draw, this might increase. Barring Spain, there is not a significant difference between any team in Europe. Ireland are tough to beat and as such will be in with a shout against any of the 4 potential teams.

Is it really beyond all expectations to see Ireland grind out a score draw away from home (goal from a set piece etc) and then hold them scoreless at Croke Park? I agree that we could easily lose (I'd say 60/40 in favour of not making it) but still, this "we will be destroyed" attitude that prevails is just annoying. We are still unbeaten in qualifying, despite playing the World Champions twice. Teams might not fear us, but they will respect us and see are difficult to beat. Arshavin said as much in an interview today about how his knowledge of English football tells him he wants to avoid us in the draw.

so with your braveheart esque speech you end on winning on the away goals rule after drab scoreless draw

heh being pats fan this draw is exactly how i feel when we could get Ajax Lazio etc: its just a different style of beating tbh regardless who gives it to us.

parker kent

Frisbee wrote: »

Link?

This was mentioned on the Ireland thread too.

He says it here ""I know enough about British football to know that I don't want to be drawn against the Republic of Ireland," said Andrey Arshavin on Monday."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philminshull/2009/10/hiddinks_russian_revolution_st.html

parker kent

dreamers75 wrote: »

so with your braveheart esque speech you end on winning on the away goals rule after drab scoreless draw

heh being pats fan this draw is exactly how i feel when we could get Ajax Lazio etc: its just a different style of beating tbh regardless who gives it to us.

That is one possibility out of many...my point being people are ruling out qualifying completely when there is a way where we could conceivably go through despite playing rubbish in both games. I didn't say lets pin our hopes on this one possibility.

Frisbee

parker kent wrote: »

This was mentioned on the Ireland thread too.

He says it here ""I know enough about British football to know that I don't want to be drawn against the Republic of Ireland," said Andrey Arshavin on Monday."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philminshull/2009/10/hiddinks_russian_revolution_st.html

The only reason I can think of for him saying that is that he hasn't Ireland play in the last few years and assume we're of a similair quality to British football...

Johnny Utah

Re Mr Nice Guy,

Ireland have always struggled against the lesser teams- remember Austria, Lictenstein under Jack, Iceland, Macedonia under McCarthy, etc.

However, when it comes to the big games, Ireland generally perfom quite well. Sure, we even played okay against Germany when Stan was the manager, so I honestly can't see an Irish team being hammered, even if we did draw Russia.

Maybe some fans think that Ireland should be beating the likes of Montenegro 3/4-0 every time they play them, but international football simply isn't that easy nowadays. You have to eek out results in every game; look at Italy/Germany, they always seem to qualify by just doing enough. Italy scraped 2 wins against Cyprus in this campaign, only beating them by a single goal in each match, yet they topped the group and are going to the World Cup next year.

parker kent

Frisbee wrote: »

The only reason I can think of for him saying that is that he hasn't Ireland play in the last few years and assume we're of a similair quality to British football...

But he knows enough to know Robbie Keane, John O Shea and Shay Given. Plenty of other players in the premiership too so he would have played against them. I imagine he sees that Ireland are a different proposition to a Bulgaria type team that will roll over and die at the drop of a hat. Any win over us in a competitive game is normally hard fought.

luckylucky

After a terrible start to their group, Portugal have gone on a strong run. A very decent team all round and back to good form I think they are the ones we would want to avoid most. Though since I live in Portugal it would add a bit of extra interest if it was them we got.

Greece stand out as the weakest of the top seeds - but I think we would still be the underdog though not a huge one.

I don't think any of the top 4 are going to especially fear getting us, not sure if we're quite a mouth waterign prospect either for them though.

Anyway it's just 2 games - so anything can happen.
May the best worst team win

Johnny Utah

luckylucky wrote: »

After a terrible start to their group, Portugal have gone on a strong run. A very decent team all round and back to good form I think they are the ones we would want to avoid most. Though since I live in Portugal it would add a bit of extra interest if it was them we got.

Greece stand out as the weakest of the top seeds - but I think we would still be the underdog not not a huge one.

I don't think any of the top 4 are going to especially fear getting us, not sure if we're quite a mouth waterign prospect either for them though.

Anyway it's just 2 games - so anything can happen.
May the best worst team win

I fear Portugal too as they are on a good run at present. I think a lot of people are underestimating them. I would much rather face a former superpower in decline (France) than a decent team in a rich vein of form. Plus, I dread the thought of Ronaldo/Simao running at Kilbane.

Overall, I think Russia & Portugal are definitely the teams to avoid. France have some top players, but their manager is a clown, so he'll probably play Benzema between the sticks, and leave Ribery on the becnch! Nothing to fear if that happens.

parker kent

Logically Greece would be the team to get but since they are so low key I would be keen to avoid them. Fears of Macedonia, Turkey style heartbreak abound! Obvious to say but Russia and France would be my biggest fear, too many players capable of one moment of brilliance in a tight game. France have been rubbish lately though.

JokerD

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Isn't this "We have remained unbeaten" line of thinking just more spin from the "it's all about results" crowd? Is it really negativity to point out the shortcomings over the course of the campaign and to be concerned by them?

Let's remind ourselves of the ten qualifying games we've played:

Georgia 1 Ireland 2

A game in which we were lucky enough to be at a neutral venue, Whelan and Ireland got what turned out to be the winner thanks to an awful howler from the keeper who let it spill into his own net. We gave away a soft goal at the end which thankfully was not too costly as it was backs to the wall stuff late on. We were lucky to leave with all 3 points.

Montenegro 0 Ireland 0

A far from vintage performance here, though the point was welcome and as I recall the result was seen largely as a positive.

Ireland 1 Cyprus 0

This was the game best remembered for Whelan and Gibson being sucked into a black hole in the middle of the pitch never to be seen again. As the BBC reported, "Robbie Keane's goal helped the Republic of Ireland claim a vital World Cup qualifying win over Cyprus but it was an unconvincing display by the Irish."

Ireland 2 Georgia 1

This was the game best remembered for that poor Georgian player having a ridiculous penalty given against him which helped us take all 3 points. Again the BBC reported, "...in the second half it was a penalty which threw a frustrated Irish side a generous lifeline."

Ireland 1 Bulgaria 1

A game in which Stiliyan Petrov dominated proceedings it's fair to say, we almost won the match having gone in front early but an OG by Kilbane meant it was all square. We could hardly complain about the result.

Italy 1 Ireland 1

Probably our finest performance in the campaign but it must be said we once again enjoyed huge fortune with Italy's Pazzini being harshly sent off early on for an innocuous challenge with O'Shea. Having gone behind we did well to land a late goal.

Bulgaria 1 Ireland 1

After a bright start this game is perhaps best remembered for how in the last 30 minutes the team essentially sat back and invited Bulgaria on. We defended well to get the point but it was hardly a fabulous effort from the team.

Cyprus 1 Ireland 2

A dire performance from the team here who managed to nick a winner thanks to more poor goalkeeping. As the BBC report stated, "...it was an unconvincing display by Giovanni Trapattoni's side with creative midfield play almost completely absent from the visitors."

If that late goal had not come about I reckon there would have been uproar over this display.

Ireland 2 Italy 2 & Ireland 0 Montenegro 0

The recent games which sealed our play-off spot which I'm sure you remember. Hardly set the world alight in either game let's be honest.




So then, after that quick recap, tell me where is this optimism for the play-offs coming from? I don't get it and I think we we need to see past simple statements like, "it's the results that matter" or "we were unbeaten in the group".

Sorry to be blunt here but...so what? Nothing to say about the manner in which we got those results?

We didn't produce one display of note that ought to give the likes of Russia or France major concerns. It is not being cynical or negative to point this out, it is simply being realistic and honest.

So what you're saying is basically that we've played under performed through most of the campaign, and where is the optimism coming from?,Well I'd say you indirectly answered your own question there. So if we can remain unbeaten and qualify for the play offs and draw twice with the World Champs then surely if we show any kind of form we could win the World Cup. Believe

Mr.Nice Guy

parker kent wrote: »

Re Mr. Nice Guy...you could easily say the same about almost any team that qualifies for any tournament. No team plays swashbuckling, champagne football 365 days a year. Spain have had some poor performances in qualifying, let alone Ireland. I said in my post that there is a good chance we would be beaten. I said it was 60-40 in favour of us not making it so I did infer that we were not exactly Brazil 1970 with a dash of Hungary 54 and AC Milan 94 for good measure. I can see our limitations.

But I could just as easily dig up match reports about how poor France, Portugal etc have played in qualifying. Greece won Euro 2004 playing awful, awful football. What I am saying is that results do matter when it comes to qualifying for tournaments, and we have been getting the results. Nobody has run amok against us in the qualifiers. To completely rule out the chances of Ireland nicking a result is just silly imo.

Before the Italy game, people had us going to be smashed. It didn't happen. We competed and almost got the win. You can't ignore results because that is what makes and breaks a team. Who cares that Germany were rubbish in the group stages in 1974? Nobody because they won the tournament. Same for any team that gets the result, the performance is forgotten over time.

There is no need for that negativity. It is football, you always have a chance. We are reasonably well organized and have a sprinkling of good players. That is enough to qualify. Look at the Swiss for example. Decent pros that are organized well by an experienced coach. Same as Ireland. We CAN do it. Not saying we will but we defo can qualify.

You call it negativity but I call it being realistic. If we have gotten important results thanks to some really dubious decisions going our way then there is major cause for concern because it means we haven't really got the results primarily on merit.

I'm not saying we have zero chance of making it. I would actually agree with you that it's about 60-40 against us qualifying. What I just think is ridiculous is when fans completely downplay and in some cases dismiss the dire performances we have produced and focus solely on the result. How can we improve as a nation when we fail to notice our shortcomings?

I'm not naive to think we can produce champagne football, certainly not with the players Trap is picking, but it's hardly unrealistic to expect us to produce good performances against the likes of Montenegro, Cyprus and Georgia.

Rondolfus

If the last performances told us anything, its that we need France for the playoff.

Ireland only play well when they are the underdog. If we pull Greece I can't see us performing any better than we did last night. Greece is one of the few nations that play more negative football than us.

The odds are obviously in Frances favour (if we pull them), but I'd rather go out fighting than weakly capitulate to a team like Greece.

Pisco Sour

Rondolfus wrote: »

If the last performances told us anything, its that we need France for the playoff.

Ireland only play well when they are the underdog. If we pull Greece I can't see us performing any better than we did last night. Greece is one of the few nations that play more negative football than us.

The odds are obviously in Frances favour (if we pull them), but I'd rather go out fighting than weakly capitulate to a team like Greece.

We'd still be underdogs against Greece.

Warper

04072511 wrote: »

We'd still be underdogs against Greece.

I think it would be 50-50. I hope we get Greece or to a lesser extent Portugal. We would have a good chance of getting through against either of them. Greece are an average side who play similarly to us - negatively. Portugal are also an average side and Ronaldo looks like he is out for the first leg, mind you he has never performed well for Portugal.

France have the players to hurt any team but have a headcase of a coach in Domenech. The one team we dont want is Russia - freezing Moscow on a plastic pitch, I could see us getting torn apart.

delija_sever029

Huh tough choice...maybe i can say my opinion coz as Olympiacos supporter and serb i am up to russian and greek football,on the other side we've played against France in these and Portugal in last qualifications

As much as Greece sounds like weakest team here i wouldnt be sure they are best option,first of all since they won EC in 2004. they are ...let me say, weird...they keep making some weird results and they really look like they can beat everyone and loose from everyone too...I still remember those matches against Turkey,and we all know what those rivalry brings up,when they lost in Athens 1-4 and than won in Istanbul....

Same in these qualifications,they are pretty unsure....

They use to be same as their teams,can beat anyone home,defend on away games so we will see what will happen,tbh thats how they won in 2004. ...

I am not sure Ireland would enter those matches with much respect and thats why greeks would "eat" them with strategy,they would probably play both of the games same and 1 goal would decide everything,anyway i think thats how Greece is going to finish no matter which team they draw...

About Russia...better pick Portugal or France than them...thats all...they are really good and i am not sure you would survive Moscow frozen hell....

Portugal is also playing under their limits so far but Portugal is always Portugal and i am sure they wont f*ck up in this round no matter on oponent


France...huh...i must say they really looked ridiculous at some point of these qualifications,Domenech is their coach same as i am...dude is just there for nothing,they should pay Henry for double job,thats for sure,they even had an arguing before Belgrade match about Henry complaining to Domenech he should really start doing something coz he cant and dont want to be coach and captain at same time:D

Its definitly they are playing better on the side coz they dont feel so much pressure like on home games,its amazing how huge lack of support they have from french crowd so they were playing practicly every game at home like they are lost.

I am not impressed with their defensive line which seemes to be very unsure and out of form even those names are for respect,they seems to fit very bad together...

On the other side its obvious they have huge attacking potential and no matter if they suck 85 mins they can solve everything in last 5 if they just get a chance,we felt that on our skin on both games when they were practicly defending 90 mins in Paris and they've managed to score twice from only 2 real chances they've made and we kept attacking but finished only with 2-1....same in Belgrade,they had 1 real chance in first half but it was enough for 1-1,details will decide for sure

if you get them try to kill Henry or something and 90% of job is done:D
its amazing how this guy affects their performance,every attack and every threat starts from him,it was obvious when all-mighty Domenech replaced him on Belgrade game they stayed with empty guns till an end of game so we were thankful to him:D

My opinion:France,if not,Greece or even Portugal,i think Ireland will be much motivated to play against bigger rival and i think they would show much more against Portugal,matches against Greece would produce "somebody please kill me" feeling,no offence but i am not sure i would see any football there

TheSpecialOne

Praying to jesus,buddha,gandi that we dont get russia!obviously wouldn't mind Greece but there no pushovers like some people seem to suggest!Out of the big 3 nations in pot 1 id love a crack at the french..domenech is a lunatic and could cost them a place in SA!

Seperate

Taking a few examples of the other teams results; they haven't been great either. Our current ranking is 37, i reckon we could mix it up with any team from 20 onwards and have a decent chance of beating them. I think i'd take france over the rest, they seem the most consistently 'bad' out of the four.


Portugal (17);

Drew 0-0 at home to Albania (93)
Drew 0-0 with Sweden (41) twice

Greece (12);

Drew 1-1 with Moldova away (88)
Drew 1-1 with Israel (22) away, beat them 2-1 at home
Beat luxemburg (116) 2-1 at home, 3-0 away

France;

Drew with Romania (26) twice
Beat Lithuania (62) 1-0 twice
Beat Faroe Islands 1-0 away (163)

Russia;

Beat Wales (67) 2-1 at home
Beat Liechstenstein (151) 1-0 away
Drew with Azerbaijan (139) 1-1 at home

Dublin_Gunner

I'm gonna basically do a quick c&p from another thread where I posted:

While Portugal are no doubt a very decent side, I certainly would never be worried about 1 player, Ronaldo. who never seems to perform for them.

If we can score 3 against Italy (who IMO are better defensively, most of the time) I'd not be overly worried about Portugal.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter who we get drawn against, they're all good sides, and will require a monumental performance from us to progress.

The 1 team I would be worried about us drawing would be France.

Our back 2 (in fairness, the only defenders we have are Dunne & O'Shea) against Henry, Anelka, Benzema, Ribery etc etc

I would be worried at that proposition. Not to mention our complete lack of a midfield against France also...

I'm not saying France are the epitome of great football at the moment, but could be great attacking - especially against us.

briany

To be quite honest about it, the attack of any of those four teams could potentially run rings around the Irish defense on their day just as the Irish defense could close them down most every time on theirs. If you ask me, this playoff will most probably down to whoever shows up on the day and has a go. The thing that troubles me is that sometimes it seems like the people who care least about whether a team progresses or not are the people playing on the pitch, like at times they just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of it all.:rolleyes:

Pro. F

parker kent wrote: »

Before the Italy game we were told we would be hammered and our best bet was to hope for a gentleman's agreement or go for damage limitation.

That's a very selective memory you have there. One poster (Catanaccio) said we would be hammered and he was slated for pages by everybody in the thread for not having a clue about football, the general consensus being that this Ireland team just wouldn't get hammered. A few posters, including myself, predicted a gentlemen's agreement (which turned out to be completely wrong) but nobody said it was needed to prevent a hammering. So that's quite a different picture to the one you're trying to paint.

noodler

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Maybe some fans think that Ireland should be beating the likes of Montenegro 3/4-0 every time they play them,

Montenagro are no San Marino but you really have to be beating them at home in WC qualifying campaigns. Last night, the result could have gone either way. When the pressure was on the faltering Bulgarians still managed to put them to the sword quite easily (4-1).

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Isn't this "We have remained unbeaten" line of thinking just more spin from the "it's all about results" crowd? Is it really negativity to point out the shortcomings over the course of the campaign and to be concerned by them?

Let's remind ourselves of the ten qualifying games we've played:

Georgia 1 Ireland 2

A game in which we were lucky enough to be at a neutral venue, Whelan and Ireland got what turned out to be the winner thanks to an awful howler from the keeper who let it spill into his own net. We gave away a soft goal at the end which thankfully was not too costly as it was backs to the wall stuff late on. We were lucky to leave with all 3 points.

Montenegro 0 Ireland 0

A far from vintage performance here, though the point was welcome and as I recall the result was seen largely as a positive.

Ireland 1 Cyprus 0

This was the game best remembered for Whelan and Gibson being sucked into a black hole in the middle of the pitch never to be seen again. As the BBC reported, "Robbie Keane's goal helped the Republic of Ireland claim a vital World Cup qualifying win over Cyprus but it was an unconvincing display by the Irish."

Ireland 2 Georgia 1

This was the game best remembered for that poor Georgian player having a ridiculous penalty given against him which helped us take all 3 points. Again the BBC reported, "...in the second half it was a penalty which threw a frustrated Irish side a generous lifeline."

Ireland 1 Bulgaria 1

A game in which Stiliyan Petrov dominated proceedings it's fair to say, we almost won the match having gone in front early but an OG by Kilbane meant it was all square. We could hardly complain about the result.

Italy 1 Ireland 1

Probably our finest performance in the campaign but it must be said we once again enjoyed huge fortune with Italy's Pazzini being harshly sent off early on for an innocuous challenge with O'Shea. Having gone behind we did well to land a late goal.

Bulgaria 1 Ireland 1

After a bright start this game is perhaps best remembered for how in the last 30 minutes the team essentially sat back and invited Bulgaria on. We defended well to get the point but it was hardly a fabulous effort from the team.

Cyprus 1 Ireland 2

A dire performance from the team here who managed to nick a winner thanks to more poor goalkeeping. As the BBC report stated, "...it was an unconvincing display by Giovanni Trapattoni's side with creative midfield play almost completely absent from the visitors."

If that late goal had not come about I reckon there would have been uproar over this display.

Ireland 2 Italy 2 & Ireland 0 Montenegro 0

The recent games which sealed our play-off spot which I'm sure you remember. Hardly set the world alight in either game let's be honest.




So then, after that quick recap, tell me where is this optimism for the play-offs coming from? I don't get it and I think we we need to see past simple statements like, "it's the results that matter" or "we were unbeaten in the group".

Sorry to be blunt here but...so what? Nothing to say about the manner in which we got those results?

We didn't produce one display of note that ought to give the likes of Russia or France major concerns. It is not being cynical or negative to point this out, it is simply being realistic and honest.

Agree with that assessment in the whole.

Would reserve more praise for the performances away to Montenagro and at home to Italy though.

briany wrote: »

To be quite honest about it, the attack of any of those four teams could potentially run rings around the Irish defense on their day just as the Irish defense could close them down most every time on theirs. If you ask me, this playoff will most probably down to whoever shows up on the day and has a go. The thing that troubles me is that sometimes it seems like the people who care least about whether a team progresses or not are the people playing on the pitch, like at times they just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of it all.:rolleyes:

Not too sure what you are getting at here? You feel the Irish players don't care? Of all the criticisms labeled at Trap's men, hunger and desire isn't really one I would have chosen tbh.

Warper

There is a general feeling that France wont fcuk up now irrespective of who they are playing. They stumbled their way to the playoffs and now it is dead serious and they will treat it that way so France would be a bad draw. They have the players and they will be focused on just getting through no matter what mad-dog Domenech does.

Really it is going to be tough no matter who comes out but if Greece/Portugal we have every chance and Traps has been lucky enough so far. Roll on South Africa and our opening match against Argentina in Group C.

noodler

Warper wrote: »

There is a general feeling that France wont fcuk up now irrespective of who they are playing.

Thats cos Platini will probably let them play both legs in Paris.

parker kent

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a very selective memory you have there. One poster (Catanaccio) said we would be hammered and he was slated for pages by everybody in the thread for not having a clue about football, the general consensus being that this Ireland team just wouldn't get hammered. A few posters, including myself, predicted a gentlemen's agreement (which turned out to be completely wrong) but nobody said it was needed to prevent a hammering. So that's quite a different picture to the one you're trying to paint.

I did not just mean what people said on boards, I was letting out frustration at what I was encountering everywhere I went. Hard to believe but sometimes there exists a reality outside of boards :D:D

I also did not say that everybody was predicting a hammering. I used that word in relation to a few particular people but I should have said something along the lines of "beaten easily" etc. A fair few people are regularly of the opinion on boards and in Ireland in general that the national team will loose handily enough to whoever it is that we are up against.

Plus on the thread topic, I still think France are the main team to avoid.

tinner777

whens the draw?

Mikeyt086

tinner777 wrote: »

whens the draw?

World Rankings decided tomorrow, playoff draw on Monday.

The_Kew_Tour

Seperate wrote: »

Taking a few examples of the other teams results; they haven't been great either. Our current ranking is 37, i reckon we could mix it up with any team from 20 onwards and have a decent chance of beating them. I think i'd take france over the rest, they seem the most consistently 'bad' out of the four.


Portugal (17);

Drew 0-0 at home to Albania (93)
Drew 0-0 with Sweden (41) twice

Greece (12);

Drew 1-1 with Moldova away (88)
Drew 1-1 with Israel (22) away, beat them 2-1 at home
Beat luxemburg (116) 2-1 at home, 3-0 away

France;

Drew with Romania (26) twice
Beat Lithuania (62) 1-0 twice
Beat Faroe Islands 1-0 away (163)

Russia;

Beat Wales (67) 2-1 at home
Beat Liechstenstein (151) 1-0 away
Drew with Azerbaijan (139) 1-1 at home[/quotThere be nothing to fear there.

I would hope to avoid Russia the most, the weather and that atmosphere would not be great and that could be long 90 minutes of football

Portugal seemed to be coming good at the right time and i would be happy to avoid them

Then its down to France and Greece. Love beat frnech for Platini sake but at same time think it might be just bit beyond us

I just think that if Greece are team we get most of us will have relief on our faces.

Apparently Greece are not playing great at present either.

luckylucky

Bought one of the tabloids here(Portugal) today.

4 big(ish) names in Portuguese football were asked who they wanted.

Octávio Machado a former Portuguese football player and coach picked Bosnia cause he reckoned they were the weakest and also Ireland because he reckoned their style of football suited Portugal. He wanted to avoid Ukraine as 'they have a fearsome selection'.

Manuel Fernandes - some other old foggie - wanted Bosnia or Slovenia - he reckons Ireland are very dangerous at home and also Ukraine are good.

Àlvaro Magalhães - wanted to avoid Ireland first because of Trappatoni and supposedly cause of the high level of our players. Bosnia he reckoned would be the one to get.

Toni - also wanted Bosnia. He wanted to avoid us and the Ukraine.

Personally I reckon they are under-estimating Bosnia and probably a little bit over estimating us. Well at least they don't seem to be regarding it as a given that they are going to make it through.

I'm almost hoping it is Portugal and Ireland just for the added excitement

briany

Thanks for the view from Portugal. My dad stopped off there a for a bit during a cruise he was on recently, said the people loved their sardines. Anyway, It seems that all the countries are saying "Oh, we don't want Ireland, they'll be tough!" and when I see that I just think they haven't seen any of our games and they're basing their opinion on Trapattoni being in charge and not much else. I think Ireland may in fact be the weakest of all the unseeded teams, they certainly seem to be the shakiest don't they?

manster

The two playoff matches are on the Wednesday 14th & Saturday 18th November. On the 15th November, Ireland are playing Australia in the rugby, also in Croke Park.

If the Ireland football team get the first playoff match at home, how will the Ireland Rugby team play on a soccer pitch (rugby pitches generally have longer grass) the following day? Will they even have the goal posts up, advertising down and the pitch lined out and ready?

If the Ireland football team get the second playoff match at home, the pitch will be in bits after the rugby. How will the groundsmen have a football pitch ready in 3 days? Maybe it would suit us to have a crap pitch if we have to face the likes of Ribery, Ronaldo or Arshavin?

The FAI must have known this as they would have the dates already. Shower of incompetent...

ArmaniJeanss

manster wrote: »

The FAI must have known this as they would have the dates already. Shower of incompetent...

Yes they are fairly incompetent.

But what could they have actually done in this case?
Told FIFA to change the dates of the playoffs? Told the IRB to change their calendar to have the Autumn Internationals in summer this year?

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

from BBC Sport

here you go

briany

helimachoptor wrote: »

here you go

Not exactly the most flattering pic of Gus there, looks like he's holding an invisible swollen bag of smelly rubbish. Wasn't this posted a few days ago though? The Russians have nothing to worry about from Ireland I think, I would hope against hope however that if we were to draw them, I would be proven wrong.

Mr.Nice Guy

I've been trying to get a sense of what the French attitude is towards the play-offs. I found this poll from Le Figaro asking people who their preferred opponent would be:

L'Irlande - 22.68%.
La Bosnie - 22.43%.
L'Ukraine - 14.24%.
La Slovénie - 40.65%

Interesting that they seem to fancy Ukraine the least. Personally I think I would be most scared of Bosnia if in their shoes.

I read another paper which analysed all the possible opponents and it said the Irish were most worried about playing France. I think most of us would be most worried about Russia wouldn't we? Though for me at least the French are a close second.

I read one comment from a fan, and I should state my French is dodgy (currently trying to brush up on it!) but it was along the lines of, "Slovenia and Bosnia are not easy, Ukraine certainly not, while perhaps the Irish are more easily overcome."

Another commentator though said he'd like to avoid 'Eire' and Ukraine and to see France play Bosnia.

A third one said it would be best to avoid Ukraine and that it would be better to land Slovenia or Bosnia. On Ireland he remarked, "It would not be easy, especially with them. It would have to be won over 2 matches."

I get the impression most of them do not like the idea of facing us, rightly or wrongly.

CHD

I want to get Greece or Portugal. French isn't so bad, Russia will have too much.

This is Ireland, this is the chance at going to a world cup so we will draw Russia.

JPA

CHD wrote: »

I want to get Greece or Portugal. French isn't so bad, Russia will have too much.

This is Ireland, this is the chance at going to a world cup so we will draw Russia.

I get the feeling we'll get Russia, :cool:

briany

If we draw France, maybe we could really viciously boo the team and their national anthem as a way of protest against the unfair seeding and Platini's supposed tacit approval. I know it's not the Irish way but it would be kind of awesome if the Irish fans suddenly got really nasty like that, just to totally throw the French.

GLaDOS

briany wrote: »

If we draw France, maybe we could really viciously boo the team and their national anthem as a way of protest against the unfair seeding and Platini's supposed tacit approval. I know it's not the Irish way but it would be kind of awesome if the Irish fans suddenly got really nasty like that, just to totally throw the French.

Or we'd just look like ****

CHD

briany wrote: »

If we draw France, maybe we could really viciously boo the team and their national anthem as a way of protest against the unfair seeding and Platini's supposed tacit approval. I know it's not the Irish way but it would be kind of awesome if the Irish fans suddenly got really nasty like that, just to totally throw the French.

That would not be awesome, that would be the Irish being disrespectful scum. Like the English and Scottish when they met few years back.

It's not France' fault Platini is a muppet.

Boo the UEFA tune, and enjoy the weird looks you get.

Mr.Nice Guy

Isn't the Irish way to actually sing along to the French anthem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7frOs1pQkQ

briany

Well our supporters would never do that anyway I suppose but I do think that an unwelcoming atmosphere for the visiting players should be cultivated, not anything like we saw that time in Georgia/Albania where a knife was thrown at one of our players but just really really really getting on the opposing players backs and trying to put them off their game as Ireland may need every bit of help they can get. I do recall instances of our national anthem being booed however for no particular reason other than we were the visiting team most recently in Sofia. I'm not saying it was deafening but it was noticable. But the Irish wouldn't do that, like the other poster said, they're more likely to and have sung along with the other anthems, if they're well known anyway.

heyjude

PHB wrote: »

I think we can take heart in the fact that we are the team to avoid in the second group.

briany wrote: »

Did anyone see the back of today's Evening Herald? The headline says "We're the team no-one wants" How true do you think that is?

Prufrock wrote: »

Nobody wants to play a team like us. We are a terrible banana skin for one of the seeded teams. Also the fact that we played Italy twice and didn't lose will raise a few eyebrows.

I just don't get this idea that we are the team that everyone wants to avoid, of the 8 playoff teams we managed the fewest points, scored the fewest goals and conceeded the most. If you add to that, the fact that whenever we do take the lead we invariably throw it away again, if I was the manager of Russia, France or Portugal I privately be praying to draw Ireland, though I'd put on a front in the media saying how much I'd hate that draw(well you need to cover yourself in case things somehow go wrong).

We did well to finish second in the group, but we are the weakest team in pot 2. On their day Russia, France and Portugal have the players to run up a good score against us, so while Greece may have a similar style to us, which won't suit, they are the most limited of our potential opponents and so give us the best chance to win a low scoring tie over two legs.