Should an unqualified sub/teacher get to go on Inservice?

lauralee28

To cut a long story short, we have a young girl doing a bit of subbing in our school(VEC). She has a degree in English and Geography and doesn't have the PGDE. She has now got 10 hours teaching Geography/English. These are not substituted hours but her "own" hours as such.
What I am a bit annoyed about and correct me if I'm wrong, but why should she get away to do inservices? She doesn't have the PGDE yet there was a sub paid today when she was away. Also, inservices usually only have a limited number of spaces, she could be taking up a space of a qualified teacher. Might I add that this is her second inservice this year and that she intends to do several more! I think this is so cheeky!
Am I wrong? Anyone else have an opinion on this?

implausible

Why are you referring to her 'getting away with' going on inservice? If she's teaching the subject, surely she needs the inservice, even more than someone with the PDGE! You seem to be more concerned that she's getting 'a day off' than the fact that this may help her to teach the students.

rainbowtrout

well maybe she's using it as an opportunity to learn, inservice is supposed to keep you up to date with your subject. I was at a really good chemistry one last year which used IT to teach chemistry. And while I'd be capable of putting stuff together myself it was nice to see what was out there and what other people were doing with it. We were given software that we could use which meant it would cut down on hours of searching for suitable stuff on the internet.

The fact that she has her own hours but no teaching qualification might suggest that maybe she's going on inservice to improve her teaching skills which can only be a good thing.

The fact that you're calling her 'a young girl' would suggest that you don't really see her as equal. Granted she doesn't have the PGDE but she's an adult with a degree and she was hired to do the job. If she has her own hours, she's the same as you, a contracted member of staff, so why shouldn't she get to go on inservice? More power to her, I'd love to get more inservice on my subjects but it doesn't come up that often.

Sounds like you're annoyed that you're not going on inservice and she's getting ' a day off'

maynooth_rules

I have a friend who is a Geography and English teacher, who has nearly bankrupted himself to get his PGDE done last year, and has had just one interview over the summer, and they didn;t even get back to him. Angers me to see sommone like who the OP is describing actually teaching classes, let alone going to inservice. So very wrong

spurious

Currently, (though it's changing soon, I believe) a PGDE or H. Dip. is not required for teaching in a VEC school, so the person referred to is quite entitled to go on inservice.

I'm more surprised any schools are letting people out for inservice these days.

pathway33

spurious wrote: »

Currently, (though it's changing soon, I believe) a PGDE or H. Dip. is not required for teaching in a VEC school

how soon is it changing would you say?

implausible

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I have a friend who is a Geography and English teacher, who has nearly bankrupted himself to get his PGDE done last year, and has had just one interview over the summer, and they didn;t even get back to him. Angers me to see sommone like who the OP is describing actually teaching classes, let alone going to inservice. So very wrong

You're acting like going on inservice is some kind of a perk! It's professional development, which, without the PDGE, she obviously needs.

lauralee28

deemark wrote: »

You're acting like going on inservice is some kind of a perk! It's professional development, which, without the PDGE, she obviously needs.

I dont think anyone thinks its a perk! Its simply that the teacher isn't qualified etc...... There are so many more qualified teachers who are unemployed and more deserving of the job never mind the inservice!

implausible

lauralee28 wrote: »

I dont think anyone thinks its a perk! Its simply that the teacher isn't qualified etc...... There are so many more qualified teachers who are unemployed and more deserving of the job never mind the inservice!

That may be so, but the girl is in the school, teaching the subject, so therefore she should go on the inservice to improve the quality of the students' education.

You're annoyed at her not being qualified, but this thread is about the inservice. If everyone in your staff feels this strongly about it, I pity the poor girl.

Of course, it's not ideal that she isn't qualified. Of course, it's not right that there are unemployed qualified teachers out there. Of course, the system is flawed that can allow this to happen. However, at the end of the day, she got a job and is doing it (presumably) to the best of her ability, hopefully with a view to doing the PGDE in the future.

Terri26

very few ppl would accept a job for 10 hours unless they lived in the area. the girl has every right to go on inservices moreso as she asnt done the dip. quit cribbing op. sounds like you are jealous and want to go away. inservices are super boring at times. I think the school is silly sending her from their perspective as they will prob lose her when she doe steh dip but she is perfectly entitled to it

lauralee28

Terri26 wrote: »

very few ppl would accept a job for 10 hours unless they lived in the area. the girl has every right to go on inservices moreso as she asnt done the dip. quit cribbing op. sounds like you are jealous and want to go away. inservices are super boring at times. I think the school is silly sending her from their perspective as they will prob lose her when she doe steh dip but she is perfectly entitled to it

Jealous of inservice???? Are you for real? I'm teaching 9 years!:D

clartharlear

spurious wrote: »

I'm more surprised any schools are letting people out for inservice these days.

Yup. A recent physics one was on Saturday. And there were several unqualified* people there, because currrent PGDE students were invited too.


*technically

dogbert27

spurious wrote: »

Currently, (though it's changing soon, I believe) a PGDE or H. Dip. is not required for teaching in a VEC school

I take it in that case the person has the necessary qualifications to teach then in that VEC school and the op shouldn't be complaining?

(I think it's next March that the change is to take affect)

Dionysus

deemark wrote: »

Why are you referring to her 'getting away with' going on inservice? If she's teaching the subject, surely she needs the inservice, even more than someone with the PDGE! You seem to be more concerned that she's getting 'a day off' than the fact that this may help her to teach the students.

I think the real question should be why is somebody without a PGDE allowed to serve as a substitute teacher when there are thousands of teachers who are actually qualified to teach - i.e. they are in possession of the PGDE?

You might as well get a security guard in and pay them €10 rather than paying people without the PGDE who are paid €43.99. The current situation is is just a conjob on public finances and against Irish parents.

implausible

Dionysus wrote: »

I think the real question should be why is somebody without a PGDE allowed to serve as a substitute teacher when there are thousands of teachers who are actually qualified to teach - i.e. they are in possession of the PGDE?

We are all aware of the 'real question', but this thread is about inservice.

givyjoe81

Dionysus wrote: »

I think the real question should be why is somebody without a PGDE allowed to serve as a substitute teacher when there are thousands of teachers who are actually qualified to teach - i.e. they are in possession of the PGDE?

You might as well get a security guard in and pay them €10 rather than paying people without the PGDE who are paid €43.99. The current situation is is just a conjob on public finances and against Irish parents.

For crying out loud, its getting a bit tiresome at this stage. Lets stop the bluffing shall we, the only person/s you are concerned about is yourself or colleagues who are losing out, not the public finances, parents or students. Time and again you imply that only a PGDE makes you qualified to teach, is this actually the case??? Not according to the teaching council of Ireland.

Your snipe that anyone without the PGDE is as qualified to teach as a security guard is without justification.

rainbowtrout

lauralee28 wrote: »

I dont think anyone thinks its a perk! Its simply that the teacher isn't qualified etc...... There are so many more qualified teachers who are unemployed and more deserving of the job never mind the inservice!

Well as she doesn't need to have the PGDE to teach in a VEC school then, she would be deemed qualified to teach in your school. So why shouldn't she avail of the same inservices as the rest of your staff?

dory

I know this is about inservice days so pardon the off topicness.

But it seems pretty clear. In a VEC one does not need the PGDE. So the principal is free to chose the best candidate. What a lot of qualified people seem to forget is that getting your 2.1s all along the way and having no extra curricular anything, or life experience does not make you a good candidate. You're still not attractive to principals.

The people moaning about unqualified people getting hired should be asking themselves 'how are these people better'. To be beaten by another qualified person is one thing, but to get edged out by an unqualified person deserves some serious self reflection.
I help people prepare for interviews all the time, and the amount of wannabie teachers who, especially in anything involving the Irish language, talk about going out at the weekend, liking their hometown because of the club oiche etc. I get bored listening to them.
Especially in VEC situation the best person is hired, regardless of PGDE, so no quibbing possible there.
(Unless it's a case of who you know -that's just annoying)

And, getting back to the OP. Should they? Yes.

evolving_doors

When I did the pgde most of the "unqualified" people on the course had a lot of previous experience teaching..a very very small handfull had just finished their degree...it actually goes towards points when you apply for the PGDE ....sad but true...

I reckon everyone (including sna's) shoud get to go on inservice....

dogbert27

rainbowtrout has said it. The key to this thread is that the person is in the VEC where you do not need a PGDE to teach therefore the person who is going on the inservice is technically fully qualified to teach in the VEC therefore deserves to be going on the inservice training as much as anybody else.
The advantage that you have as a PGDE qualified teacher is that (technically)** you can teach in a secondary school where as this girl can't.

** I know there are subs in secondary schools that don't have a PGDE and are teaching.

dory

Armelodie wrote: »

When I did the pgde most of the "unqualified" people on the course had a lot of previous experience teaching..a very very small handfull had just finished their degree...it actually goes towards points when you apply for the PGDE ....sad but true...

I reckon everyone (including sna's) shoud get to go on inservice....

Yes, it's quite odd that you get rewarded for doing a job you wre never qualified to do (unless it's in a VEC school in which you were qualified! )

Powerhouse

dory wrote: »

Especially in VEC situation the best person is hired, regardless of PGDE, so no quibbing possible there.

This is utter nonsense. The lack of a requirement of a PGDE simply means that people who do not have the academic standard to qualify for the PGDE can be employed by crony principals giving a leg up to people who need the teaching experience for PGDE purposes to over-ride their academic mediocrity which is not enough to get them over the line.

To present what goes on in these situations as an exhaustive trawl through the nation's available academic talent unfettered by pesky considerations such as the PGDE is either disingenuous or ill-informed.

It is a reality these days that the only people who don't do the PGDE are people who simply do not have the academic standard to do so. Nobody will restrict their employment options to the VEC sector by choice.

rainbowtrout

Powerhouse wrote: »

This is utter nonsense. The lack of a requirement of a PGDE simply means that people who do not have the academic standard to qualify for the PGDE can be employed by crony principals giving a leg up to people who need the teaching experience for PGDE purposes to over-ride their academic mediocrity which is not enough to get them over the line.

To present what goes on in these situations as an exhaustive trawl through the nation's available academic talent unfettered by pesky considerations such as the PGDE is either disingenuous or ill-informed.

It is a reality these days that the only people who don't do the PGDE are people who simply do not have the academic standard to do so. Nobody will restrict their employment options to the VEC sector by choice.

Not true. In my experience of VECs teachers that I know working in the VEC sector that don't have the HDip/PGDE and it's not because they weren't good enough. They just didn't apply for it. In a number of cases, some of them left college, saw the ad in the paper, applied for the job and got it, and stayed in it. And as most people know if you get a job it's hard to give it up and go back to being a student. And if you get a teaching job with security it's hard to give that up to go back and do the PGDE, and then start the job searching again. I have two such friends who are in permanent/CID employment within the VEC system. Both have 2.1 degrees and got their jobs out of college and it just developed from there. It wasn't from lack of ability and neither of them knew anyone in the VEC to give them a 'leg up'