Why should our ambulance drivers be paid more than hospital consultants in Finland.

jimmmy

#15 wrote: »

but if we are going to cut pay to reduce borrowing, we wouldn't have the money to employ more teachers.

If we cut public service pay enough we would have. The important thing is to cut government borrowing first....it cannot continue at 25 billion per year. The money left in the education kitty would go a lot further if our public servants were not paid 40% more than the EC average.;)

cyclopath2001

jimmmy wrote: »

If we cut public service pay enough we would have. The important thing is to cut government borrowing first....it cannot continue at 25 billion per year.

So why borrow for bank bailouts and artificial support for the property market?

jimmmy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

So why borrow for bank bailouts and artificial support for the property market?

that is a seperate question to the " bull in the room", our excessive government expenditure + subsequent borrowing. The government has to support the banks ( either through nationalisation or nama or other means ) because it feels that if it did not, they would go bust. If they went bust there would be no cash coming out of the hole in the wall for the public servant or anyone else. There would be severe complications for society and the govt decided to borrow money fto invest in the property market at a fraction of the price it would have cost it to do so a few years ago. Time will tell if it loses or gains on that. In the meantime the banks can keep trading.

Nodin

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

So why borrow for bank bailouts and artificial support for the property market?

Because, in the world according to Jimmy, at the root of all evil lies the "public service".

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Hey Jimmmy private sector worker...........


.....I bet your Annual Income is more than benwavner's public sector Annual Income!

jimmmy

Nodin wrote: »

Because, in the world according to Jimmy, at the root of all evil lies the "public service".

not at all. We all need police, teachers, nurses , government administrators, civil service etc. Just why should they be - in this country - the highest paid in the known world ( or planet as E. Hobbs sez ) ?

#15

jimmmy wrote: »

not at all. We all need police, teachers, nurses , government administrators, civil service etc. Just why should they be - in this country - the highest paid in the known world ( or planet as E. Hobbs sez ) ?

Can I see statistics for that Jimmy? Just post them here. Not hearsay from Eddie Hobbs. Thanks.

Or else post them in this thread: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055718871&page=5

jimmmy

#15 wrote: »

Can I see statistics for that Jimmy? Just post them here. Not hearsay from Eddie Hobbs. Thanks.

Is the Irish Public Service the highest paid in the world ? (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

#15

jimmmy wrote: »

Is the Irish Public Service the highest paid in the world ? (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Thats a link to more of your verbal diarrhea.
Link the stats, thanks.

jimmmy

#15 wrote: »

Link the stats, thanks.

Have not the time, have to do some work now ( someone has to, to pay the tax to pay the government )
Anyway, as said elsewhere where you asked the same question :
"There were countless links to statistics on the very thread whose link I gave you. Take your pick if you want statistics. If you want something to do you could try to find a country in the world whose averge public sector pay is higher than Irelands. Countless other people have tried, including some public service people. Our p.s. pay statistics are on the Central Statistics Office ( CSO ) website, whose link was reproduced in countless posts. I bet you cannot find a country in the world with a higher paid public service. There may be one, but I doubt it. ( a few of the African countries are given the benefit of the doubt, as their statistics cannot be extracted ).

If you find a man who height exceeds that of the tallest man listed in the Guinness book of records, he can claim the title of the worlds tallest man. Until then, its safe enough to assume the Guinness book of records is correct, even though they have not measured every man in the world ( 3 billion males ? )

I wonder would the Guinness book of records be interested in verifing and indeed possibly listing our world record ? ";) One way to find out. Our little country could be famous worldwide.

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

Have not the time, have to do some work now [/I]

It's a forum rule that if you post "facts" you should be able to back them up.

Stats please.

TCP/IP_King

jimmmy wrote: »

..... If you find a man who height exceeds that of the tallest man listed in the Guinness book of records, he can claim the title of the worlds tallest man. Until then, its safe enough to assume the Guinness book of records is correct, even though they have not measured every man in the world ( 3 billion males ? )....

And that, people, just about sums up the level of understanding of the use of average, median, mode, and range in this forum.
Pointless discussion.
Good night.

TCP/IP_King

Tipp Man wrote: »

....... It amazes me that teachers have gotten away so long with doing so little work, i honestly don't know how they can justify it to themselves. And then to top it all off they're paid a ridiculous salary, its mind boggling

Tippman, I don't know if you have any kids, but for someone to stand in front of 30+ like mine Monday to Friday, well they earn my respect.

Is this applicable to whatever you spend 45+ hours a week on .....

‘Education is not a profitable business, but a costly one... No nation ever made its bread either by its great arts, or its great wisdoms. By its minor arts or manufactures, by its practical knowledges, yes: but its noble scholarship, its noble philosophy, and its noble art, are always to be brought as a treasure, not sold for a livelihood. You do not learn that you may live – you live that you may learn. You are to spend on National Education, and be spent for it, and to make by it, not more money, but better men.’

John Ruskin

Arathorn

Jimmy, I'd suggest not saying highest paid in the world as its hard to show stats for this, however in that other thread of yours their are a lot of stats for a lot of countries. Why dont you say in future higer paid than x,y,z. You have stats for all these, and it would shut up people asking you for stats when they cannot themselve show any stats for a country that are higher paid.... in the whole world..

RCIRL

jimmmy wrote: »

There was an interesting two page feature in Saturdays Irish independent, featuring interviews with six foreigners who work or had worked in the Irish public service. They all compared wages with the public sector wages in their own European countries, and all thought Irish wages astronomically high,( eg double) in hospitals, universities and other areas of the public service. Other perks like hours worked , holidays, pensions etc were all out of line - to the taxpayers expense - in Ireland. Even I was surprised at what they had to say. Anyone else see the article / admire their honesty ?

FF and Benchmarking are to blame along with the Unions. Because of them our public sector is no longer a business like you see across the EU. In Ireland the Public Sector is a place where super hero's live along with many aspiring to be super hero's.

Like all super hero's they have a weakness and they can be destroyed by the powerful privatisation! Until a time when powerful privatisation arrives the super hero's will continue to survive.

#15

Arathorn wrote: »

Jimmy, I'd suggest not saying highest paid in the world as its hard to show stats for this, however in that other thread of yours their are a lot of stats for a lot of countries. Why dont you say in future higer paid than x,y,z. You have stats for all these, and it would shut up people asking you for stats when they cannot themselve show any stats for a country that are higher paid.... in the whole world..

Thats part of the point, he could well be correct but he destroys his own argument with a rant.

Tango Alpha 51

jimmmy wrote: »

Not an hospital consultant in an IRISH hospital. Or a Finnish gardening consultant. It referred to the pay of Irish ambulance drivers with Finnish hospital consultants.
With regard to the pay of Irish hospital consultants ,in his article in the feature in the paper, Robert Drescher the german consultant radiologist says he gets half what he earned in Ireland, after he returned to his German hospital near Berlin doing the exact same job, after his contract with the Mater came to an end. Also consultants in Germany work a longer official working week ( its 42 but comes to about 48 in the end ). Also, " in Germany, doctors are not civil servants. They are employed by the hospital, so they do not have the same security".

Jimmy
As the other poster stated, there is no ambulance drivers in the statutory services. This term might have been grand years ago when all they did was drive with very little training. Now it's recognised that Irish Paramedics & Advanced Paramedics are amongst the highest trained in the world. I've worked, studied & trained hard for the title of Paramedic.

Just for the record I'm supposed to work a 39hr wk but this is never the case. The only guaranteed in my job is the start time of your shift. I average well in excess of 48hr week. Bear in mind that there is only 1200 paramedics (HSE) in the whole country (1 paramedic for every 3,500 people living in ireland). My gross weekly pay before allowances after 7yrs is 679euro a wk. When I left the private sector in 2002, I was on a gross pay of 500euro a wk. My point is that my pay hasn't risen that much in 7yrs. We also hear much about the PS "golden" pension. Again can I point out the following, after 14yrs service in the HSE National Ambulance Service a Paramedic will max out on 50,000 gross a year. Using the HSE pension estimator, I will receive at 65yrs of age a lump sum of 64,351euro & a pension of 11,140 euro a year, not quite the huge sums bandied about by the media which includes Eddie Hobbs & I was already contributing to my pension since I started in the Ambulance Service, I wasn't getting the bloody thing for free.

Tango Alpha 51

Privatisiation?????, at least in this country when you dial 999 & look for an ambulance it's free at the moment. Imagine what it would be like if the service was privatised like in America, where in certain states you could be charged up to 300 dollars just for calling an ambulance for your sick relative & then have to pay so many dollars a mile after that to get them taken to hospital.

Tango Alpha 51

jimmmy wrote: »

If we cut public service pay enough we would have. The important thing is to cut government borrowing first....it cannot continue at 25 billion per year. The money left in the education kitty would go a lot further if our public servants were not paid 40% more than the EC average.;)

Public service paid 40% more. Now I'm not an expert on this subject by anymeans but lets see comparing with our nearest neighbour the UK

Irish Ambulance Service Paramedic (Max salary including allowances is 50,000 euro)

London Ambulance Service Parmedic (Max salary including allowances is 42,515 euro)

Not exactly a 40% increase is it.

ParkRunner

Personally I would love to know Jimmy's personal financial statistics given his protracted desire to uncover the widely published public sector earnings statistics.

#15

EF wrote: »

Personally I would love to know Jimmy's personal financial statistics given his protracted desire to uncover the widely published public sector earnings statistics.

No, despite Jimmys willingness to determine the value of other people, comment upon their worth, and provide in-depth analysis of their careers, he refuses to even say what area he works in. He will even throw in barbed comments about other peoples work.

Tango Alpha 51

Jimmy,
As for your orginal thread title "why should our ambulance drivers be paid more than hospital consultants in Finland. Again I'll point out that a Neurologist working in a hospital in Helsinki, Finland earns 67,200euro a yr starting off. Alot more than an Irish Paramedic maxing out on 50,000euro a yr after 14yrs service.

My info in relation to Finland was taken off www.payscale.com

gosplan

This is a very retarded thread.

Can't you debate this nonsense on the Indo's website or something.

ei.sdraob

#15 wrote: »

And thats without mentioning how high our house prices went (I suppose that was the fault of the public sector too).

once again the government are a subset of the PS

so yes it is partly your fault

P. Breathnach

EF wrote: »

Personally I would love to know Jimmy's personal financial statistics given his protracted desire to uncover the widely published public sector earnings statistics.

You are not entitled to know about jimmmy's personal circumstances.

The fact that he uses other people's personal circumstances to have a go at them (as he did to both you and me) is an ironic justification for his sheltering behind his entitlement to privacy.

Getting personal can obscure discussions like this which, as you can see, have been conducted with great clarity.

Ambulance drivers?

Ireland doesn't have ambulance drivers.

There's Emergency Medical Technicians, Paramedics, Advanced Paramedics,

But no Ambulance Drivers.

ParkRunner

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You are not entitled to know about jimmmy's personal circumstances.

The fact that he uses other people's personal circumstances to have a go at them (as he did to both you and me) is an ironic justification for his sheltering behind his entitlement to privacy.

Getting personal can obscure discussions like this which, as you can see, have been conducted with great clarity.

I agree I'm not entitled to know his personal circumstances and I dont expect these to be revealed, but it would add so much more legitimacy to the debate if public sector reports reflected current realities and private sector statistics were more accessible.

#15

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You are not entitled to know about jimmmy's personal circumstances.

The fact that he uses other people's personal circumstances to have a go at them (as he did to both you and me) is an ironic justification for his sheltering behind his entitlement to privacy.

Getting personal can obscure discussions like this which, as you can see, have been conducted with great clarity.

He does not have to reveal anything, that is true. But he should not insult people or make disparaging remarks about someone elses job either.

No one else here has denigrated our jobs, even if they don't agree with us. That was my only reason for asking him about his own job.

#15

ei.sdraob wrote: »

once again the government are a subset of the PS

so yes it is partly your fault

Not me. I was in university. Only started work after the recession started. I'm pleading innocent:cool:

Dob74

Deleted User wrote: »

Ambulance drivers?

Ireland doesn't have ambulance drivers.

There's Emergency Medical Technicians, Paramedics, Advanced Paramedics,

But no Ambulance Drivers.

+1
Glad someone pointed that out.