Why should our ambulance drivers be paid more than hospital consultants in Finland.

soden12

Why are our bankers paid more than anyone else ?

I read in the Independent that in 2007 after developers bankers were the highest paid. This was followed by pumbers and electricians - of course that was on "declared" income.

irish_bob

soden12 wrote: »

Why are our bankers paid more than anyone else ?

I read in the Independent that in 2007 after developers bankers were the highest paid. This was followed by pumbers and electricians - of course that was on "declared" income.

thier is a relativley tiny number of bankers earning vast fortunes , their are over 300,000 ps workers earning significantly more than in other countries

ardmacha

their are over 300,000 ps workers earning significantly more than in other countries

and all 300,000 earn more than other countries, do they?

jimmmy

ardmacha wrote: »

and all 300,000 earn more than other countries, do they?

Nobody said ALL 340,000 public servants earn more than ALL public servants in other countries, but Eddie Hobbs said ( on RTE ) our average public sector wage is the highest"on the planet" ( his words, not mine ). Certainly no other country can be found in the world to have a higher average public sector wage than ours. ( 50k per year, according to our governments own C.S.O. www.cso.ie ). Of course some public sector workers earn less than this : thats why its an average.

irish_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

and all 300,000 earn more than other countries, do they?

the majority of them , yes

NewDubliner

irish_bob wrote: »

the majority of them , yes

And Irish mortgages are the highest on the planet?

jimmmy

NewDubliner wrote: »

And Irish mortgages are the highest on the planet?

I doubt Irish property prices are the highest on the planet - you can buy a house for well less than three years average public sector wage in many parts of the country - so I doubt that Irish mortgages are the highest on the planet, especially as our interest rates are so low.

Paulzx

jimmmy wrote: »

but Eddie Hobbs said ( on RTE ) our average public sector wage is the highest"on the planet" ( his words, not mine )..

Your obviously still carrying his love child:rolleyes: You should talk to someone about your obsession with him

jimmmy

Paulzx wrote: »

Your obviously still carrying his love child:rolleyes: You should talk to someone about your obsession with him

I never met him in my life and would not cross the street to see him. However, he has done some research + knows a thing or two about economics. The fact he says he has got a lot of hate mail and nasty emails from public servants shows it all. Now back to the ball please, not the player.

Paulzx

jimmmy wrote: »

. However, he has done some research + knows a thing or two about economics. .

He knew a lot when 3 or 4 years ago he was telling people to buy second and third properties. Eddie Hobbs is a self serving hypocrite who is too busy admiring his own image to give a damn about anyone else.

I have no issues with you having opposing views to me but lets not bestow hero status on the likes of Eddie Hobbs. He'll say what gets him airtime, keeps him controversial and sells more books.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

I doubt Irish property prices are the highest on the planet - you can buy a house for well less than three years average public sector wage in many parts of the country - so I doubt that Irish mortgages are the highest on the planet, especially as our interest rates are so low.

I'm, talking about mortgages taken out during the boom. I'm right unless you can show me another country in the world where the mortages are higher than here relative to salaries.

Strangely, while the private sector wants to renegotiate job contracts agreed during the boom, it's not prepared to negotiate down mortgage contracts agreed during the boom in the context of those same job contracts & agreed salaries.

It's a case of having your cake and eating it.

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

However, he has done some research + knows a thing or two about economics.

He also knows a lot about getting his snout in the trough. If he is so worried about the public finances why doesn't he pay this cash back?

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/aug/24/fee-bonanza-at-taxpayers-expense-for-celia-larkin/

TV financial guru Eddie Hobbs, has declined to collect expenses, but has received €38,286 in fees.

The enormous fees were paid out to members for their work, which involves attending six board meetings per year and helping "review the operations of the agency".

Six whole meetings per year, jaysus how does Eddie get the time to do his important research?

thebman

NewDubliner wrote: »

I'm, talking about mortgages taken out during the boom. I'm right unless you can show me another country in the world where the mortages are higher than here relative to salaries.

Strangely, while the private sector wants to renegotiate job contracts agreed during the boom, it's not prepared to negotiate down mortgage contracts agreed during the boom in the context of those same job contracts & agreed salaries.

It's a case of having your cake and eating it.

It isn't really. People borrowed that much money and have to pay it back. The company can only pay what it can afford.

Anyway it isn't like its a single entity. The public sector seems to have a problem grasping this concept as its completely different to their employment arrangement.

Generally for the majority of people in the private sector, they borrowed from a different company than they work for.

Also the people that lent the money have long term forecasts that include the pay back of that money so they'd have to completely change all their forecasts downward if they were to renegotiate mortgages and then you have the simple fact that people agree to pay the money back to the people they lent it from.

Same as people agree to let their employers pay them less than originally agree as it is clear the company can't afford to pay more and if they don't like it they can disagree and change to another company willing to pay their rate. Not many of those around at the moment as most companies are in trouble.

P. Breathnach

Paulzx wrote: »

He knew a lot when 3 or 4 years ago he was telling people to buy second and third properties. Eddie Hobbs is a self serving hypocrite who is too busy admiring his own image to give a damn about anyone else.

I have no issues with you having opposing views to me but lets not bestow hero status on the likes of Eddie Hobbs. He'll say what gets him airtime, keeps him controversial and sells more books.

Like many others, I first became aware of Eddie Hobbs when he made a television series on the rip-off republic (I wasn't sufficiently taken with it to watch it much: I saw it once or twice). It was mainly the behaviour of the private sector that he had in his sights then. Much of the same pattern of behaviour persists, but Eddie is no longer interested in eviscerating them. The angry mob is baying at different prey and Eddie, as a leader, must follow them.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It was mainly the behaviour of the private sector that he had in his sights then. Much of the same pattern of behaviour persists, but Eddie is no longer interested in eviscerating them.

What persistent pattern of behaviour of the private sector , the sector in which close to 2 million people were / are employed , are you referring to ? Are you trying to imply close to 2 million private sector workers are ripping off the poor 340,000 people in the public sector ?

May I remind you consumers in Ireland generally have a choice where to spend our money. Businesses do not have a choice in charging a vat rate over a third higher than in N. Ireland, or electricity costs among the highest in Europe etc. Public servants can ( and often do ) shop across the border, but the tax generated there supports paying people on the minimum wage only 2/3 of ours, public servicants + pensions on much less etc.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... Are you trying to imply close to 2 million private sector workers are ripping off the poor 340,000 people in the public sector ? ...

Of course not. Only some of them, and they do not limit their efforts to ripping off public sector employees: they are equal-opportunities rogues.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Of course not. Only some of them, and they do not limit their efforts to ripping off public sector employees: they are equal-opportunities rogues.

We can agree on that so. However, you usually do not HAVE to support these "Rip off" people as you call them : you can get your teeth fixed in N. Ireland or Hungary or not get them fixed at all : you can do your yearly accounts yourself rather than getting an accountant to do so, in order to satisfy the taxman : you can shop online rather than in your local shop : you can holiday in Lanzarote rather than Leitrim : if you know the prices Irish businesses charge / have to charge you can hardly say they are a rip off ? If you think they make too much money, I do not see too many people leaving the cosy public service in order to chase the free enterprise dream / make their million ???? In contrast, the public in this country have no option but to support the public service ie in general pay the taxes, and they / their children be responsible for government borrowings.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

We can agree on that so. However, you usually do not HAVE to support these "Rip off" people as you call them : you can get your teeth fixed in N. Ireland or Hungary or not get them fixed at all : you can do your yearly accounts yourself rather than getting an accountant to do so, in order to satisfy the taxman : you can shop online rather than in your local shop : you can holiday in Lanzarote rather than Leitrim : if you know the prices Irish businesses charge / have to charge you can hardly say they are a rip off ?...

I thought you wanted the economy saved. A policy of directing personal spending out of the country does not do much for our fellow-citizens.

It seems as if your only interest is in doing down the public service.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I thought you wanted the economy saved..

Very much so.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

A policy of directing personal spending out of the country does not do much for our fellow-citizens. .

I merely pointed out that people have the option of shopping abroad if they want to : we are in the EC after all. Personally, I would say I spend a lot more in Ireland than most of the public servants I know, but there is no law against people going up North or shopping on-line. Its a free country. As said before "Public servants can ( and often do ) shop across the border, but the tax generated there supports paying people on the minimum wage only 2/3 of ours, public servicants + pensions on much less etc. "

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It seems as if your only interest is in doing down the public service.

No. Incorrect. Never mind my personal interests. It is of great interest to me and everyone else ( except perhaps those who receive govt payments) that the government controls expenditure, and stops borrowing 25 billion a year to pay as many as it does as much as it does.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... Never mind my personal interests...

Where did I ever touch on the subject of your personal interests?

I find your style of innuendo objectionable.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

but the tax generated there supports paying people on the minimum wage only 2/3 of ours, public servicants + pensions on much less etc. "

So the UK has no public sector financing deficit and they didn't stiff their creditors by devaluing their currency? :rolleyes:

thebman

NewDubliner wrote: »

So the UK has no public sector financing deficit and they didn't stiff their creditors by devaluing their currency? :rolleyes:

The UK is not a model we should want to adopt. Printing money is pulling the wool over the eyes of the British savers.

tedstriker

There are 2 stats I'm interested in when it comes to the issue of public sector and here they are:

http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/finacial-statistics-for-ireland/19/Ireland-Public-Sector-Average-Weekly-Earnings.html


http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/finacial-statistics-for-ireland/39/Government-Exchequer-Surplus---Deficit.html

We are now borrowing megabucks to pay mega salaries. In order to rebalance things we need to lower the salaries, end of story. The problem with this is that the public sector (or rather the unions) like to benchmark on the way up but not on the way down. They are actually shooting themselves in the foot because in about 4 or 5 years when things might be better they won't be able to pull the benchmarking thing out again because it will is way to one sided (100% infact).

NewDubliner

tedstriker wrote: »

We are now borrowing megabucks to pay mega salaries.

And to bail out the banking and property sector.

irish_bob

tedstriker wrote: »

There are 2 stats I'm interested in when it comes to the issue of public sector and here they are:

http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/finacial-statistics-for-ireland/19/Ireland-Public-Sector-Average-Weekly-Earnings.html


http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/finacial-statistics-for-ireland/39/Government-Exchequer-Surplus---Deficit.html

We are now borrowing megabucks to pay mega salaries. In order to rebalance things we need to lower the salaries, end of story. The problem with this is that the public sector (or rather the unions) like to benchmark on the way up but not on the way down. They are actually shooting themselves in the foot because in about 4 or 5 years when things might be better they won't be able to pull the benchmarking thing out again because it will is way to one sided (100% infact).

the reality is the public sector want thier boom time salarys to be retained in rescession time regardless of the cost to the tax payer , thats the crux of the matter

dresden8

irish_bob wrote: »

the reality is the public sector want thier boom time salarys to be retained in rescession time regardless of the cost to the tax payer , thats the crux of the matter

The reality is that the public sector got benchmarking once in 2003.

The public sector envy levy has all but wiped that out.

I've posted this several times before, as jimmmy might say.

thebman

NewDubliner wrote: »

And to bail out the banking and property sector.

That isn't on the government books so is constantly used a scapegoat inaccurately.

We are borrowing at our current rates without taking into account any banking "bail out".

So wake up that it can't be afforded or fook off to another country that and ask for public salaries to be paid at Irish rates there because it can't happen here anymore, simple as.

irish_bob

dresden8 wrote: »

The reality is that the public sector got benchmarking once in 2003.

The public sector envy levy has all but wiped that out.

I've posted this several times before, as jimmmy might say.

its not a reply to my post , its just a statement , one which i dont accept btw

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

its not a reply to my post , its just a statement , one which i dont accept btw

I take it that you are not into irony.

dresden8

irish_bob wrote: »

its just a statement , one which i dont accept btw

Why not? The numbers are out there.