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Why should our ambulance drivers be paid more than hospital consultants in Finland.

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    #392
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    dresden8 wrote: »
    The reality is that the public sector got benchmarking once in 2003.

    The public sector envy levy has all but wiped that out.

    I've posted this several times before, as jimmmy might say.

    Are you actually trying to say that the pension levy took all the gains the the PS have made in the last 10 years??

    Pull the other 1.


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    #393
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Are you actually trying to say that the pension levy took all the gains the the PS have made in the last 10 years??

    Pull the other 1.

    maybe you should read his post again...I don't see where he says that...he says the pension levy wiped out benchmarking...which for many would be true


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    #394
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Riskymove wrote: »
    maybe you should read his post again...I don't see where he says that...he says the pension levy wiped out benchmarking...which for many would be true

    Look you can play around with words all you want, quite frankly i don't give a damn if the wage increases were called benchmarking, incremental or whatever the hell they want to call them, you only need to look at the attached link to see that the wages in PS have increased dramatically this decade and with very little (if anything??) in the way of reform or increased productivity, actually what am i saying we now have 80,000 more employed in the PS than the start of the decade, its taking the p##s to be honest. The fact of the matter is that in a really ironic kind of way it is the PS who are turning out to benifit the most from the building boom and now that thats dead in the water they want the rest of us to foot the bill

    http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm


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    #395
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    How much is a mortgage repayment in Finland & how much here?

    Do you think an ambulance driver should be living in a three story, 5 bed home in Dublin, that cost over 700k at the time of purchase?... Or is that a little bit much.

    I'm not blaming people for what the have... I'm blaming the ridiculous amounts paid in this country...


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    #396
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Look you can play around with words all you want, quite frankly i don't give a damn if the wage increases were called benchmarking, incremental or whatever the hell they want to call them, you only need to look at the attached link to see that the wages in PS have increased dramatically this decade and with very little (if anything??) in the way of reform or increased productivity, actually what am i saying we now have 80,000 more employed in the PS than the start of the decade, its taking the p##s to be honest. The fact of the matter is that in a really ironic kind of way it is the PS who are turning out to benifit the most from the building boom and now that thats dead in the water they want the rest of us to foot the bill

    http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm


    thier is absolutley no doubt that the public sector were the biggest beneficiaries of the property boom , while plumbers , sparkys and architechts are now on the scrap heap , guards , nurses and teachers who,s status as highest paid in europe was only made possible by revenue generated from the property boom for the most part remain in employment

    ps , looking at those cso statistics , i see guards were earning 837 euro per week in 2000 , a hell of a wage back then


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    #397
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Look you can play around with words all you want, quite frankly i don't give a damn if the wage increases were called benchmarking, incremental or whatever the hell they want to call them .....

    and you can rant whenever you like and you are entitled to your views on the overall increases in public sector pay

    fact is he was talking about benchmarking (which is mentioned a lot on these threads) and made a valid point about it; no one is "playing with words", no one suggested the levy "took all the gains by the PS in the last 10 years"

    thier is absolutley no doubt that the public sector were the biggest beneficiaries of the property boom ,

    talk about revisionism

    property developers? builders? landowners?....no....public servants


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    #398
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Riskymove wrote: »
    and you can rant whenever you like and you are entitled to your views on the overall increases in public sector pay

    fact is he was talking about benchmarking (which is mentioned a lot on these threads) and made a valid point about it; no one is "playing with words", no one suggested the levy "took all the gains by the PS in the last 10 years"




    talk about revisionism

    property developers? builders? landowners?....no....public servants

    the number of property developers in this country is numerically quite small , so too landowners who sold land for development , the builders are now unemployed , the guards , nurses and teachers and other ps workers are not and they number 350,000 , we hear alot about how every ps workers has taken a pay cut but every private sector worker has not , what we dont hear as much of is how every private sector worker didnt benefit during the boom but every public sector worker did


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    #399
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    irish_bob wrote: »
    the number of property developers in this country is numerically quite small , so to landowners , the builders are now unemployed , the guards , nurses and teachers and other ps workers are not and they number 350,000

    Sure... ye can prove anything with facts!!!


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    #400
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    irish_bob wrote: »
    the number of property developers in this country is numerically quite small , so too landowners who sold land for development

    small numbers or not, they still benefitted a lot more during that time than public servants
    , the builders are now unemployed , the guards , nurses and teachers and other ps workers are not and they number 350,000

    and.....whats your point here.....builders are unemployed so we should sack guards and teachers too?

    we hear alot about how every ps workers has taken a pay cut but every private sector worker has not , what we dont hear as much of is how every private sector worker didnt benefit during the boom but every public sector worker did

    I would imagine that most private sector workers benefitted from the boom............a third of jobs were based on the construction sector, then you have all the spin-offs that creates in retail, services etc...a number of sectors in the private sector benefitted from the national pay deals and so on


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    #401
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Riskymove wrote: »

    small numbers or not, they still benefitted a lot more during that time than public servants



    and.....whats your point here.....builders are unemployed so we should sack guards and teachers too?




    I would imagine that most private sector workers benefitted from the boom............a third of jobs were based on the construction sector, then you have all the spin-offs that creates in retail, services etc...a number of sectors in the private sector benefitted from the national pay deals and so on


    the vast majority of private sector workers benefited from the boom but every single last public sector benefited greatly , i think some are making the same arguement on this one as unions , they are comparing a clerical officer in tullamores gains during the past decade to sean dunne


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    #402
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Clerical officer starting wage was about 28,000 in 2002/03
    Manys the luxury villa was purchased on that :rolleyes:

    Check this out from 2003 (scroll down):
    http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1771
    Some good some bad.

    Basically the Government know the people want a scape goat, they know it should be them and their developer/banker chums, so we are given the smoke screen of pitting Public and Private against each other.
    Lets put our focus back on the greedy twits at the center of it.


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    #403
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    irish_bob wrote: »
    the vast majority of private sector workers benefited from the boom
    Public sector wasn’t affected as much private sector by cheap labour from new-EU countries
    Irish Ferry for example....


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    #404
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Clerical officer starting wage was about 28,000 in 2002/03
    Manys the luxury villa was purchased on that :rolleyes:
    Find money for deposit, buy apartments, let it to Polish…


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    #405
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Public sector wasn’t affected as much private sector by cheap labour from new-EU countries
    Irish Ferry for example....

    very true , while nearly everyone saw gains in the private sector , every single person in the public sector saw considerable gains

    civil servants wages increased by 70% since 2000


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    #406
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    jimmmy wrote: »
    There was an interesting two page feature in Saturdays Irish independent, featuring interviews with six foreigners who work or had worked in the Irish public service. They all compared wages with the public sector wages in their own European countries, and all thought Irish wages astronomically high,( eg double) in hospitals, universities and other areas of the public service. Other perks like hours worked , holidays, pensions etc were all out of line - to the taxpayers expense - in Ireland. Even I was surprised at what they had to say. Anyone else see the article / admire their honesty ?

    why should our consultants be paid more than theirs?


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    #407
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    Why should our public service be paid 40% more than the EC average ?
    Why should they be the highest paid in the known world ?
    Why are they marching on Friday in order to resist paycuts ?
    Why is our government borrowing something like 500 million a week just to enable them to be paid as much as they are ?
    Why is Cowen paid more than the other prime ministers in the EC ?
    Why is the head of our central bank (paid by our govt ) the highest paid central banker in the world ?
    Why is absenteeism in the public sector twice that in the private sector ?

    Lots of "whys". I think the answer to them all is the same, just like to the question " why should our consultants be paid more than theirs?".
    Because our country has been badly run, to put it mildly. The only problem is, if the other crowd inc labour get in, it will be even worse / they will bow down to the unions even more. Our people deserve better.


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    #408
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Cowen and his cohorts as well as higher civil servants are supposed to get hammered with paycuts as part of a review comparing their salaries to other EU countries. Report due very soon before budget time i believe.

    Can't wait to see what the cuts will be, in order of 50% should suffice just like the pay rates our Finnish govt cousins are on.


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    #409
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Why should our public service be paid 40% more than the EC average ?
    Why should they be the highest paid in the known world ?
    Why are they marching on Friday in order to resist paycuts ?
    Why is our government borrowing something like 500 million a week just to enable them to be paid as much as they are ?
    Why is Cowen paid more than the other prime ministers in the EC ?
    Why is the head of our central bank (paid by our govt ) the highest paid central banker in the world ?
    Why is absenteeism in the public sector twice that in the private sector ?

    Lots of "whys". I think the answer to them all is the same, just like to the question " why should our consultants be paid more than theirs?".
    Because our country has been badly run, to put it mildly. The only problem is, if the other crowd inc labour get in, it will be even worse / they will bow down to the unions even more. Our people deserve better.


    even though im not a kerryman , i need to reply to your questions with another question

    having read all your pointers , why the hell is it not the tax payers of ireland who are out marching this friday


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    #410
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    irish_bob wrote: »
    even though im not a kerryman , i need to reply to your questions with another question

    having read all your pointers , why the hell is it not the tax payers of ireland who are out marching this friday

    Good point bob, it should be the net contributers to the government - the people who send money to the government, instead of the government employees - who should be out marching. For people who disagree with our average public sector pay being as high as it is ( 50,000 per year according to the c.s.o.), what is our best course of action ? To ignore the march this Friday ? Or will some who have seen their lives / businesses / careers destroyed and savings / pensions decimated, hold placards up to / boo the marchers ?


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    #411
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Or will some who have seen their lives / businesses / careers destroyed and savings / pensions decimated, hold placards up to / boo the marchers ?
    Wouldn't they be better off protesting outside of the banks?


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    #412
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    I believe Public sector workers also pay tax. So tax payers will be marching, also why don't you all join unions if concerned they are helping their members earn an unfairly higher wage?


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    #413
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Good point bob, it should be the net contributers to the government - the people who send money to the government, instead of the government employees - who should be out marching. For people who disagree with our average public sector pay being as high as it is ( 50,000 per year according to the c.s.o.), what is our best course of action ? To ignore the march this Friday ? Or will some who have seen their lives / businesses / careers destroyed and savings / pensions decimated, hold placards up to / boo the marchers ?

    i intend to go to one of the demonstrations and heckle but i will look pretty silly on my own , im serious when i say i would travel to wherever to join a group of counter protestors , strength in numbers as they say

    we simply cannot let some bearded marxists on a power trip destroy the country


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    #414
    McTigs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭McTigs


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    why don't you all join unions if concerned they are helping their members earn an unfairly higher wage?
    well there's the solution right there folks, thats a wrap!


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    #415
    McTigs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭McTigs


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Wouldn't they be better off protesting outside of the banks?
    and this would achieve exactly what in november 2009?


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    #416
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    McTigs wrote: »
    and this would achieve exactly what in november 2009?
    Nothing much. The point is that jimmmy wants people who were ripped off by the banks to protest against the public sector.:rolleyes:


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    #417
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    The Public Sectors wage is not the real crunch its the increments that bile us


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    #418
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Hootanany wrote: »
    its the increments that bile us

    even more reason to protest at the banks then


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    #419
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Nothing much. The point is that jimmmy wants people who were ripped off by the banks to protest against the public sector.:rolleyes:
    I never mentioned "people who were ripped off by the banks". Nobody forced you to become a bank customer, nobody forced you to borrow money off them or lend money to them. The banks - by and large - did nothing unlawful. This thread is about the public sector, not the banks.
    I doubt if the people in my local bank branch are the highest paid bankers in the world - good luck to them if they are because they compete with other banks and if I do not like their service I can go to another bank. I do know however than Irish public servants have the highest average salary in the known world, and that is where most off my taxes go to, and that is why the govt is borrowing so much. The failure of the banks was caused by poor government and poor regulation ( by the regulator + Central bank ) ...ie by the PUBLIC SERVICE.


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    #420
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    I never mentioned "people who were ripped off by the banks". Nobody forced you to become a bank customer, nobody forced you to borrow money off them or lend money to them. The banks - by and large - did nothing unlawful. This thread is about the public sector, not the banks.
    I doubt if the people in my local bank branch are the highest paid bankers in the world - good luck to them if they are because they compete with other banks and if I do not like their service I can go to another bank. I do know however than Irish public servants have the highest average salary in the known world, and that is where most off my taxes go to, and that is why the govt is borrowing so much. The failure of the banks was caused by poor government and poor regulation ( by the regulator + Central bank ) ...ie by the PUBLIC SERVICE.

    Jaysus, jimmmy, I have to give it to you. You have rendered yourself immune to satire. How could anybody satirise that?


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    #421
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    You have rendered yourself immune to satire.
    Nope, I can appreciate satire properly made. However, satire is usually meant to be funny ; the purpose of satire is not primarily humour in itself so much as an attack on something of which the author strongly disapproves, using the weapon of wit. Is there anything witty about riskymoves dig at the banks , when the thread is about the public sector, and it is the public sector which is found to be such a big drain on government expenditure ? I suppose if I was on the public service gravy train then I would find it funny.


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