Why should our ambulance drivers be paid more than hospital consultants in Finland.

TheInquisitor

NewDubliner wrote: »

Always a good source for unbiased, well-researched information.:rolleyes: Was it written by their restaurant critic or their soccer correspondent?

How much is a mortgage repayment in Finland & how much here?

Since we're both part of the european union the repayment has the same base rate. As of today the one month was .43 and the 3 month was .74 so feck all really if you had checked what the best mortgage was, you would have decided on a tracker. And be paying 1.43-1.73 % interest on your mortgage. There's on ly yourself to blame if you paid for an overpriced house

TheInquisitor

Bucklesman wrote: »

The inflationary pressure of the property boom. Not that the Indo could be expected to understand that, of course.

Excellent we're agreed, the boom caused a terrible rise in ridiculous public sector wages, luckily now we are having a massive contraction their wages will fall back into line...right?

NewDubliner

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Excellent we're agreed, the boom caused a terrible rise in ridiculous public sector wages, luckily now we are having a massive contraction their wages will fall back into line...right?

Only some wages have reduced.

Mortgage capital repayments have not gone down - perhaps we should follow the Latvian example and limit liability to the present-day value of the properties?

lmimmfn

NewDubliner wrote: »

Mortgage capital repayments have not gone down - perhaps we should follow the Latvian example and limit liability to the present-day value of the properties?

An even better solution would be to allow those with negative equity to extend their mortgage term if they cant meet repayments or worst case scenario allow them to pay off only the interest for a term( in the case of folk losing jobs etc. ).

Limiting liability would just mean the rest of us who were sensible and stood on the fence due to the insane house prices are getting done on tax increases.( Im not moaning about it overall but in the circumstances you shouldnt be punishing the sensible as it would leave us at a loss having being paying rent money when we could have bought a house at an insane value and expect others to bail us out later).

NewDubliner

lmimmfn wrote: »

you shouldnt be punishing the sensible

That's the job of NAMA.

TCP/IP_King

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

He used to go in some christmas days at 6pm for night shift and not have much work to do and sleep most of night and get nearly a grand (gross) for shift!

But sometimes this also happens to firemen

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/sep/30/welding-sparks-caused-fire-that-killed-two-bray-fi/

and that's not part of your average private sector job spec.

ronbyrne2005

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

But sometimes this also happens to firemen

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/sep/30/welding-sparks-caused-fire-that-killed-two-bray-fi/

and that's not part of your average private sector job spec.

Very very rare incidents. I cant think of any full time firemen/paramedics in Dublin killed in line of duty over past 30 years. Actually one died when he drove his ambulance into an open sewer while racing to an incident but thats like one in 30+years. Taxi driver is probably just as statistically dangerous. Same with Gardai, very safe compared to their international peers. In USA firemen are expected to go into fires even if theres no people in building while in Ireland thats not the case.

jmayo

Idbatterim wrote: »

right so I take it that the driver is also a paramedic! exscuse the ignorance but nothing, nothing would shock me here! including paying a paramedic to be a driver and just performing driving duties! incase any of the other paramedics needed a second opinion on the way back to the hospital!

Actually someone might be able to correct me on this but it wasn't solong ago that our ambulance staff were just glorified drivers AFAIK.
They weren't allow administer any drugs to casualties and I am not sure how that has changed ?

BroomBurner wrote: »

I thought everyone knew that all ambulance drivers were paramedics. They always need two people when responding to an incident, and if it's a particularly bad incident, two paramedics will be required. Seeing as they can't actually guess what the incident is going to be, two trained paramedics is the most cost-effective and safe way to work it.

Or would you perhaps like if the HSE took on someone only trained to drive, and had two paramedics in the back, further inflating the public sector payroll?

That would appear like a normal run of the mill decision for the HSE :rolleyes:

BroomBurner

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

In USA firemen are expected to go into fires even if theres no people in building while in Ireland thats not the case.

Try telling that to the families of the Bray firemen who lost their lives fighting a fire inside a disused factory

No matter what country you're in, working in the frontline services like the fire brigade, police, etc. is always going to have a more frightening aspect. It's not for everyone, hence why they are always chronicly understaffed.

TCP/IP_King

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Very very rare incidents.

Well this guy

http://www.irishfireservices.ie/pages/firestatistics.htm

tells us that there were, for example in 2000 in Dublin, [SIZE=-1]28,323 calls to the DFB. A lot more chances to put your life on the line[/SIZE] for someone else than the average taxi driver.

Not to mention the war zone that will occur in Dublin alone in 3 weeks time.

I've nothing to do with the DFB, I don't even know anyone in there, but this stuff alone make me think they're worth the money.

irish_bob

BroomBurner wrote: »

Try telling that to the families of the Bray firemen who lost their lives fighting a fire inside a disused factory

No matter what country you're in, working in the frontline services like the fire brigade, police, etc. is always going to have a more frightening aspect. It's not for everyone, hence why they are always chronicly understaffed.

applications for joining the guards are always full , this will be even more apparent in the next few years

BroomBurner

irish_bob wrote: »

applications for joining the guards are always full , this will be even more apparent in the next few years

Applications are always full, but many, many drop out when they realise the hard work you have to put in and the risks involved.

jmayo

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Very very rare incidents. I cant think of any full time firemen/paramedics in Dublin killed in line of duty over past 30 years. Actually one died when he drove his ambulance into an open sewer while racing to an incident but thats like one in 30+years. Taxi driver is probably just as statistically dangerous. Same with Gardai, very safe compared to their international peers. In USA firemen are expected to go into fires even if theres no people in building while in Ireland thats not the case.

Last Irish firemen casulaties would have been the two Bray part time firemen, Brian Murray and Mark O Shaughnessy, killed in Novemebr 2007.
The last garda casualty was Robert McCallion killed in Donegal in April by a couple of joyriding scumbags.

There is more to Ireland than just Dublin you know

irish_bob

BroomBurner wrote: »

Applications are always full, but many, many drop out when they realise the hard work you have to put in and the risks involved.

unless your stationed in a rough area , the job of a guard is a doss for the most part , a farmer or a builder is a much more dangerous job

Diarmuid

BroomBurner wrote: »

Applications are always full, but many, many drop out when they realise the hard work you have to put in and the risks involved.

What percentage?

Likewise care to present the proof that the firemen/nurses/paramedics are chronically understaffed?

ronbyrne2005

The union types tell ya that no one wanted to be in public service during boom but thats manure. A few friends applied for the DFB during the boom (circa 2004) and there was around 10,000 applications for a few hundred positions. Graduates started entering too as it was becoming better paid than grad science jobs. One girl is in DFB a few years after doing a degree in Analytical Science in DCU.

spank_inferno

To answer your question Jimmy, They get paid what they get paid because they can.

However no blame should rest on the workers themselves, If they are awarded pay increases, who are they to refuse?

Its the gutless shower of a FF government that have brought us to this situation.

Its strange that people think there is such a thing as a pay "negotiation" in the public sector?
How can it be a negotiation, when both the government and the unions are effectively on the same side awarding as much monies to each other as they feel they can get away with...... All in the name of the blessed "social partnership".

All the while no one looking out for the best interests of those that actualy foot the bill and create the nations wealth.


But I do want to say again, the paramedics do a good job and I dont begrudge them for their efforts.

NewDubliner

Diarmuid wrote: »

Likewise care to present the proof that the firemen/nurses/paramedics are chronically understaffed?

What are you suggesting? That salary rates should go up and down every day, subject to demand/availability, like a RyanAir fare?

Better again, maybe pay the guys minimum wage and they can haggle for a tip from the patients according to how distressed they are.:rolleyes:

BroomBurner

Diarmuid wrote: »

What percentage?

Likewise care to present the proof that the firemen/nurses/paramedics are chronically understaffed?

Couldn't tell you the percentages off-hand, but I'm sure they're available if you went looking. I can only comment on people I know who have been through the process and saw quite a lot of their group drop out or not accepted.

As for the proof of understaffing, please see any hospital in the country, please see waiting times, please see crime levels, please see blatant crime going on that can't be stopped due to understaffing/ineffectual deployment of staff, please see massive amounts of OT required for actual members of these services as the staff just aren't there. The evidence is around you if you care to look.

To my mind, the problem isn't so much with our front-line services, it's with the glut of admin staff in the background, in particular in the HSE. And I say this as a PS worker. I would rather swop 40% of the administrative staff in the HSE for nurses/doctors/paramedics/etc.

NewDubliner

BroomBurner wrote: »

it's with the glut of admin staff in the background, in particular in the HSE.

Is some of that because of the huge amount of admin work needed to cover the hospitals against malpractice suits?

The Muppet

We don't have ambulance drivers, we have EMT,s and Paramedics that also drive ambulances.

Sorry if this has been posted , couldn't be arsed to read another of these stupid threads.

BroomBurner

NewDubliner wrote: »

Is some of that because of the huge amount of admin work needed to cover the hospitals against malpractice suits?

Possibly to protect against malpractice suits as a result of over-worked medical staff making mistakes due their ridulous human brains not being able to operate properly without sleep?

Or malpractice suits against hospitals where someone was not treated adequately due to the hospital not having enough medical staff?

ParkRunner

NewDubliner wrote: »

Is some of that because of the huge amount of admin work needed to cover the hospitals against malpractice suits?

I would love to know how much the State actually has to pay trying to defend the barrage of litigation taken against the various Departments and Ministers. Certainly enough to cover the cost of a few new hospitals and schools!

Diarmuid

NewDubliner wrote: »

What are you suggesting? That salary rates should go up and down every day, subject to demand/availability, like a RyanAir fare?

well ,replace "day" with "year" and "a RyanAir fare" with "most jobs" and yes, that is what I am suggesting.

Have you even gotten a job? Well then you know how this works. They offer a salary; you haggle to get as good a deal as you can and they aim pay the minimum they can to hire you. Same thing happens when you want a pay increase.

You'd swear this was some novel, unheard of process.

meathstevie

Without a shadow of a doubt. Being an EMT, fireman or copper is just as safe as a 9 to 5 Monday to Friday clerical position in some back office at Dublin City Council. Wisen up will ya. Personally I don't think emergency services in the Republic of Ireland are overpaid.

Look at for example at a few aspects of the necessary skill set for a Dublin Firebrigade EMT-Firefighter and other firefighters around the country.

- response driver for small to medium and large emergency vehicles
- sound knowledge of building structures, just in case a burning one tumbles
on your head
- high levels of proficiency with all sorts of equipment, from heavy truck
mounted pumps to handheld cutting equipment
- first aid and casualty management skills up to EMT level

Not worth a few bob is it ?

ronbyrne2005

Diarmuid wrote: »

well ,replace "day" with "year" and "a RyanAir fare" with "most jobs" and yes, that is what I am suggesting.

Have you even gotten a job? Well then you know how this works. They offer a salary; you haggle to get as good a deal as you can and they aim pay the minimum they can to hire you. Same thing happens when you want a pay increase.

You'd swear this was some novel, unheard of process.

but unions have openly admitted that they engage in colective bargaining(with implied strike threats) in order to attain above market rates for jobs. Ya see the unions are all socialist and egalitarian, but only for their members, ya see those 500k on dole, they dont pay unions subs and all those in lesser paid private sector have to negotiate all by themsleves and are-shock horror- accountable for their actions and productivity.

ronbyrne2005

meathstevie wrote: »

Without a shadow of a doubt. Being an EMT, fireman or copper is just as safe as a 9 to 5 Monday to Friday clerical position in some back office at Dublin City Council. Wisen up will ya. Personally I don't think emergency services in the Republic of Ireland are overpaid.

Look at for example at a few aspects of the necessary skill set for a Dublin Firebrigade EMT-Firefighter and other firefighters around the country.

- response driver for small to medium and large emergency vehicles
- sound knowledge of building structures, just in case a burning one tumbles
on your head
- high levels of proficiency with all sorts of equipment, from heavy truck
mounted pumps to handheld cutting equipment
- first aid and casualty management skills up to EMT level

Not worth a few bob is it ?

Why do those with same skill sets in other EU countries( who are richer than us) get a lot less then?

WAKE UP
We're a poor Eu country again now, in fact we never were rich , just living in a debt fuelled bubble economy.

AlekSmart

We don't have ambulance drivers, we have EMT,s and Paramedics that also drive ambulances.

But none of these would be able to function without such thoroughly indespensible grades as Clinincal Nurse Manager 1,2,3,and even.....4 (?),largely made up of Nurses who no longer actually,well..erm...Nurse.
Instead,they ......well...erm administrate....even kinda,erm...manage,sorta...by phoning around for agency nurses to cover for permanent staff who are on holliers,out sick or on courses to become......... Clinical Nurse Managers :eek:

It is little short of a vast rudderless ship full of ailing,wailing,incontinent,incompetent humanity under the command of of a Committee of One Eyed Admirals attempting to circumnavigate the globe.

At one time,large medical facilities (Hospitals) had a central structure of management which tended to defer to the experience and/or talent of grades such as a "Matron".

Crikey,even the sound of the word now reverberates,almost as if a relic of Empire.

Thank God we`re a healthy race

P. Breathnach

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

... WAKE UP
We're a poor Eu country again now, in fact we never were rich , just living in a debt fuelled bubble economy.

We were rich, and we are rich -- just not filthy rich.

Rockshamrover

Why don't we ask those lovely Finish consultants to come and be our consultants? Get rid of our highly paid people here and have twice as many consultants.