Need help with my Home Network!

dan_eire

Ok, here's my setup;

I have 10Mb UPC Broadband, which i have plugged into a 10/100mb 5 port Linksys switch. This switch feeds two paths. The first is to my 54Mb Wireless Access Point - which two laptops connect wirelessly to. The second path is to my other 20 port switch upstairs. This facilitates my PC, Xbox360 & PS3.

Now, my problem is that i can never get more than 2 out of the 5 devices connected at any one time. I can have the 2 laptops connected wirelessly, no problem. Or my latop and the 360 connected. Or my pc and 360 etc etc (ye get the idea). If i want to connect a different device, i have to turn off&on the power to the routers/switches and then turn on the 2 devices i want to use, so they can get a valid ip address... instead of the usual 192.168.1.xx

When the other devices try to connect, they get a connection - but can't access the internet (or ping websites). I think it's something to do with DNS or DHCP - but i'm not too sure.

Any help would be much appreciated!!

Thanks.

dub45

It looks to me as if you have no router in your set up. I have seen it mentioned on here before that upc provide two addresses and thats probably why any two of your items will work.

You say you have a switch and an access point - so there is nothing to do dhcp for you.

dan_eire

So i need to buy a router and connect it to my upc box, then the other switch upstairs is ok - or do i need to buy 2 routers?

If so, would you recommend any (cheap) router in particular?

Thanks!

DECEiFER

Can you manually assign your "IP address", "Default Gateway" address, and the UPC "DNS server addresses" on all of your devices connected, instead of relying on a local DHCP server?

If those work on your computers, you'd be well to try on your consoles (if able). I've never configured the LAN on a Xbox 360, but my PSP allows custom addresses to be assigned.

dan_eire

Ye i can maually assign the ip address, gateway, etc on all devices. If you could give me an example of the ip addresses i need to use, i'd be set!

Will all devices still have internet access, even though i only have switches? Sorry, I'm pretty handy with pc's, but when it comes to networking, i'm a newbie.

DECEiFER

dan_eire wrote: »

Ye i can maually assign the ip address, gateway, etc on all devices. If you could give me an example of the ip addresses i need to use, i'd be set!

Will all devices still have internet access, even though i only have switches? Sorry, I'm pretty handy with pc's, but when it comes to networking, i'm a newbie.

To get an idea of what you need to set, go to the Command Prompt on a Computer, and using a Computer for each Switch and AP, type on the prompt: "ipconfig /all" (without the quotes) and find the IP address of the "Default Gateway" on the applicable Local Area Connection. It's worth noting that when you connect, say your Laptop, to each Switch and AP, that you make sure it has Network and Internet Access (ie. no more than 2 devices connected for this portion of the process) and using an Ethernet cable instead of Wi-Fi is advisable to avoid confusion. You're using an AP and a 20-port Switch at the end of the link, so I'd say connect a Laptop to each of those two and run the command that way.

Say the "Default Gateway" is 192.168.1.1, then you use that, and when picking a local "IP address", use the same Class C subnet. For example, 192.168.1.x, where x is a number between 0 and 255 (you must use a different number than the one on the gateway, and a different number for each of your devices, to avoid an address conflict). Another example. If your "Default Gateway" is 192.168.100.1, using the same Class C subnet would mean you'd go for 192.168.100.x for the "IP address".

UPC's "DNS servers" are as follows (correct me if I'm wrong):
Primary/Preferred DNS: 89.101.160.4
Secondary/Alternate DNS: 89.101.160.5

The "Subnet Mask" will be 255.255.255.0.


That about covers it. If I've explained it a bit arseways, just ask and I'll try and clarify. Otherwise, if you don't get it right the first time, revise over what I've said and try again from the beginning. I have no experience using Switches so I can't think of any other way of doing this, as I'm not 100% sure on how they work. I should probably look into it sometime.


Best of luck!

dan_eire

Ok, so i'll manually setup up each device, one at a time, to the access point, with manual ip settings. The default gateway is 192.168.1.1, so i'll set the ip addresses as 192.168.1.xx. You're right aswell about the UPC DNS servers aswell, they're 89.101.160.4 & 89.101.160.5.

I'll post my results later tonight, but thanks a mill for your help DECEiFER!

DECEiFER

dan_eire wrote: »

Ok, so i'll manually setup up each device, one at a time, to the access point, with manual ip settings. The default gateway is 192.168.1.1, so i'll set the ip addresses as 192.168.1.xx. You're right aswell about the UPC DNS servers aswell, they're 89.101.160.4 & 89.101.160.5.

I'll post my results later tonight, but thanks a mill for your help DECEiFER!

Sure thing. Let us know later.

vibe666

that's not going to work the way he has everything set up. if he sets up static IP's on his devices he will be able to see everything locally, but will be without any public IP address from the modem, so he won't be able to get on the net.

basically, you have no private LAN, you are effectively connecting everything in your network directly to the internet (which is bad).

what's happening is the same thing that would be happening if you connected your PC directly to your UPC modem. it's giving you a public IP address, but it's doing it for 2 (or possibly 3) devices, as UPC does allow you more than one public IP at a time (as Dub45 mentioned earlier).

i'm sure you have a software firewall on your PC, but it's not ideal to have everything on your network publicly visible on the internet, so you *should* buy yourself a router. (not telling you what to do, just advising as best I can).

personally, I'd go for a Linksys WRT54G as they are cheap, can take 3rd party firmwares (except for some models, make sure you check online before picking one up) and it will be familiar if you already have a linksys switch (and stackable with it) and will allow you to take one of your existing switches and the wireless AP out of the equation and just use the WRT54G connected to your modem via its WAN port and use one of your switches upstairs (depending on how many ethernet ports you need in each location).

the idea of having a router is to create a private LAN for all your devices and for ease of communication between them AND to put an extra layer of protection between you and all the hackers and script kiddies out there who like nothing better than phucking with peoples PC's phor phun.

once you add a router into the equation, the next time someone has a look at your IP address, instead of seeing the public IP address of your PC behind a software firewall, they see the the WAN IP on your router and anything behind it is totally invisible and protected by an SPI firewall that will drop any unsolicited packets before they even get a sniff of your LAN.

if you want to go for a linksys router, I'd recommend one of THESE.

the stock linksys firmware isn't great, but you can easily re-flash this router (via it's GUI, no hacking or messing involved and only takes 5 minutes) with something like the popular DD-WRT or Tomato firmwares and add loads of extra features like bandwidth monitoring and QoS. if you go for a regular WRT54G (i.s. not the GL one in my link) you may find that it could be hard or even impossible to re-flash with 3rd party firmware if you decide to change from the stock linksys firmware, so buyer beware.

MrMagic1

Also setting static ip's to wireless cards is never a good idea, You'd need to remove them when using it elsewhere

DECEiFER

I thought of that too, vibe. I just assumed it would go right through to the modem's public IP assignment. But I admit what you're saying is most likely correct. I was never 100% optimistic about my plan. I really should brush up on my Switches, it would be handy to know.

Sorry, dan_eire.

vibe666

the easiest (and safest) way is to get a router between the modem and everything else on the network.

i'm trying to think of a simpler (or cheaper) way of doing it, but i don't think there is unless he has a spare (crappy old, any spec) pc laying around and 2 network cards that he could make into a a smoothwall or m0n0wall box to act as a firewall, but that would require an interest in that sort of thing and 99% of the time the easiest option is going to be a cheap router.

dan_eire

Ok, thanks guys. By the looks of it, my best option would be to replace the 5 port switch (that's attached to my UPC box) with a router. So my network would/should have the following layout;

UPC
¦
Router(new)

---

Wireless Access Point (2 laptops connected)
¦
5 Port Switch

---

PC
¦ ¦
¦ Xbox360
¦
---PS3


Would that do the job??

DECEiFER

dan_eire wrote: »

Ok, thanks guys. By the looks of it, my best option would be to replace the 5 port switch (that's attached to my UPC box) with a router. So my network would/should have the following layout;

UPC
¦
Router(new)

---

Wireless Access Point (2 laptops connected)
¦
5 Port Switch

---

PC
¦ ¦
¦ Xbox360
¦
---PS3


Would that do the job??

I've seen that sort of configuration work before.

dan_eire

I got talking to a network admin in my job and he said that it doesn't matter that i'm using switches and not a router. He seems to think that my UPC broadband box doesn't have a big enough "DHCP pool", and that's why not all devices are getting a valid ip address.

He said to hook up a laptop to the upc box and access it's settings. I tried that last night, but couldn't access it. I tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1 etc etc, with no luck.

I'll try again tonight - if no luck, i'll be bringing my upc box into him tomorrow to have a look.

Does this seem right to anyone? Thanks for all your replies - i'll keep you updated and let you know if i ever get to the bottom of this "net-mare"!

DECEiFER

dan_eire wrote: »

I got talking to a network admin in my job and he said that it doesn't matter that i'm using switches and not a router. He seems to think that my UPC broadband box doesn't have a big enough "DHCP pool", and that's why not all devices are getting a valid ip address.

He said to hook up a laptop to the upc box and access it's settings. I tried that last night, but couldn't access it. I tried 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1 etc etc, with no luck.

I'll try again tonight - if no luck, i'll be bringing my upc box into him tomorrow to have a look.

Does this seem right to anyone? Thanks for all your replies - i'll keep you updated and let you know if i ever get to the bottom of this "net-mare"!

Ah ha, I love it when I'm right (ha ha - yeah it must be rare)! But, I don't think the UPC modem will allow an increase in the pool. It's not meant to act as a router with many devices being hooked up to it, it's built for one device to connect to it (such as a router or single computer), so I doubt there's an option to do so. But it's worth a look!

Try 192.168.100.1 if your modem is a Scientific Atlanta issue.


The thing is, if the pool cannot be increased then you're back to square one. You'll have to buy a router. Is your AP a router or just an AP?

dan_eire

My AP is just an AP unfortunately, not a router. If it was, i would just plug the UPC box straight into it (thanks to your advice). I'll have to wait and see tonight if i can access my UPC settings!

docentore

DECEiFER wrote: »

Ah ha, I love it when I'm right (ha ha - yeah it must be rare)! But, I don't think the UPC modem will allow an increase in the pool.

I hate to dissapoint you, but you're wrong. OP's net admin is also wrong.
OP: Either you explained this wrong to your admin or he shouldn't be a net admin anywhere else than fishing boat.

Vibe666 is right, you need a router to connect your network to internet (other network). In order to connect two networks you need a bridge (router does bridging function in this case).

Sell one of the switches and access point, as most of routers on the market are have wireless ap build in.

DECEiFER

docentore wrote: »

I hate to dissapoint you, but you're wrong. OP's net admin is also wrong.
OP: Either you explained this wrong to your admin or he shouldn't be a net admin anywhere else than fishing boat.

Vibe666 is right, you need a router to connect your network to internet (other network). In order to connect two networks you need a bridge (router does bridging function in this case).

Sell one of the switches and access point, as most of routers on the market are have wireless ap build in.

Ah well, I'm not disappointed. But the good news is that a decent router won't cost an arm and a leg.

dan_eire, would you not keep the AP to act as a Wi-Fi Repeater (if able), should you run into any signal issues or blackspots inside your house or out in the yard?

docentore

good idea. but if OP will go with linksys wrt like vibe666 sugested, he can get one from ebay already flashed. with dd-wrt firmware you can change transmitting power so no repeater would be needed.

dan_eire

docentore wrote: »

I hate to dissapoint you, but you're wrong. OP's net admin is also wrong.
OP: Either you explained this wrong to your admin or he shouldn't be a net admin anywhere else than fishing boat.

Vibe666 is right, you need a router to connect your network to internet (other network). In order to connect two networks you need a bridge (router does bridging function in this case).

Sell one of the switches and access point, as most of routers on the market are have wireless ap build in.

I think you are right sir. I mustn't of explained it properly to my net admin.

I connected my laptop to the UPC box (192.168.100.1, Scientific Atlanta) and saw a few settings/stats, but nothing was configurable. I rang UPC and the guy there said that i have a "modem" and that i'd need to replace my 5-port switch with a router. But does that mean that i need to buy a router to replace the other switch upstairs - that connects the pc/ps3/360??

He said that there's an updated version of my upc "modem" that acts as a router, but i can't upgrade to it yet, as it's only available to new customers... feckers!

Time to buy a cheap router like vibe666 suggested. Thanks for all the help, i'll keep you all updated on my fumblings! :rolleyes:

docentore

hey,

you need only one router. Then you just connect your upstairs switch to it.

piece of advice: get something proper, like mentioned linksys router.

Difference in price between this and some cheap router will be something like 20e, but believe me, you won't regret it. I have one of those, and never had to restart it (over half a year). With cheap s*te router you might be doing this every day

dan_eire

Would this router do the job?

vibe666

looks like i missed all the fun.

there's no wireless on the router in your link, so you'd need to keep your wireless AP in use, which would seem to be a bit redundant since the wireless linksys router in my previous link is the same price on komplett and does a lot more.

either go for the one in my link or one of the ones pre-flashed with dd-wrt in docentore's link.

and yes, your network guy is wrong.

the UPC modem isn't doing DHCP at all (it's not capable of doing it, it's just a dumb modem), it's just passing the request on to the next bit of UPC hardware which is assigning your 2 IP addresses. anyway, you can't change any settings on it even if there was something you could do with it as UPC have it totally locked down.

and yes, you do NEED a router, if for no other reason than there is no firewall on the UPC modem which is leaving anything connected to it wide open on the internet.

jor el

dan_eire wrote: »

Would this router do the job?

That'll do the trick, but you'd be better with the ones that has wireless built in, otherwise you'll still need a wireless AP or wireless router in bridged mode. The router will also have 4 or 5 Ethernet ports, so no need to have a separate 5 port switch, if what you're connecting to is close to the router.

dan_eire

I was gonna go for the wireless version, but my router is going to be in a steel box - so i'm not sure if it would affect it's wireless broadcast.

I'm just gonna keep my wireless ap and change the switch for a router and that should do it. I'll be collecting the router tomorrow (hopefully), so i'll let ye's know how i get on! Thanks again

jor el

dan_eire wrote: »

I was gonna go for the wireless version, but my router is going to be in a steel box - so i'm not sure if it would affect it's wireless broadcast.

Have you a reason for this? Routers tend to run quite hot, and putting it in a box, with no air flow, could be quite dangerous. I wouldn't recommend it.

dan_eire

Well my upc box is housed in this steel box, which has the patch panel (that feeds the rest of the house). Everything fits nicely in there and it doesn't seem too warm.

I'll keep an eye on it for the first few hours and if it gets too warm, i'll pop the router on the outside. Thanks for the warning though!

jor el

You won't know much after a few hours. The concern would be that over time, the heat would degrade the components in the router, causing it to eventually fail, or even worse, that the whole thing could eventually catch fire. I wouldn't put the modem in a box either, same risks.

DECEiFER

jor el wrote: »

You won't know much after a few hours. The concern would be that over time, the heat would degrade the components in the router, causing it to eventually fail, or even worse, that the whole thing could eventually catch fire. I wouldn't put the modem in a box either, same risks.

Agreed. You'll be better off leaving them outside. So what if the devices fail, buy another one! It's the catching fire bit that would concern me, as it's a real possibility.

vibe666

dan_eire wrote: »

Well my upc box is housed in this steel box, which has the patch panel (that feeds the rest of the house). Everything fits nicely in there and it doesn't seem too warm.

I'll keep an eye on it for the first few hours and if it gets too warm, i'll pop the router on the outside. Thanks for the warning though!

the antenna on the WRT54G wireless routers in the links are removable, so you could get some antenna cable and (with the right connectors on each end) have the router inside the steel box and rig the antennae (antennas?) up outside of it to have the best of both worlds.

the modding community (hardware and software) is second to none for the linksys WRT family of routers and there's plenty of forums out there with lots of guides on various mods so if heat did become a problem it's not too big of a job to add heatsinks and an external fan to the top of it if heat does become an issue.

might be worth leaving a thermometer in the steel box for the first while just so you can check from time to time until you're happy though, just to be safe.

dan_eire

Ok, i got a Linksysy BEFSR41 4-port Router - but i'm having some problems...

When i connect either of the laptops wirelessly, i get the auld "Cannot display this webpage". But when i press "Diagnose Connection Problems" and run through the wizard, everything is grand. If i turn off/on the laptops, i have to go through the wizard again.... arrgghh! :mad:

My pc upstairs works grand. However, my xbox is now having problems connecting to xbox live, "Your NAT type is Moderate. People on networks with this NAT type may not be able to join certain games or hear other people while playing online. For the best online experience, you need an open NAT configuration."

And... my PS3 is still giving me a DNS error and can't connect.

I've hooked up my laptop to the router and had a look at the settings. I see you can enable "DMZ", but only for one specific ip address and i'd need it for both the xbox and ps3.

Any help?! (again) :rolleyes:

PogMoThoin

Its best to give these devices static ip's. Do You use both at the same time? If never, then use the same static ip.

Dmz just forwards all the ports, just setup a port forward of all ports in both tcp and udp to the other lan ip.

dan_eire

yes i use them at the same time. any idea why my xbox is having NAT problems and my ps3 is having DNS probs??

PogMoThoin

No idea, these usually can be fidly with firewalls on routers but for the dns issue just add Your isp's dns servers to the ps3 instead

dan_eire

I set a static ip address on my xbox360 and i'm still getting the NAT moderate warning

dan_eire

OK wierd... i set ststic ip addresses for my laptop and xbox 360 and they're fine now. But i didn't set my ps3's ip address and it connect automatically now?!

Anywho, thanks to everyone who helped me out. I now have a (working) home network consisting of; 2 laptops, pc, xbox360 and ps3!!