Who the hell can I vote for ?

bauderline

So I am starting to think about this two years out.... Who the hell can I vote for ?

- I have a problem with FG as the entire upper echelon of the party appears to be spineless and without direction, they have no clear policies, they just oppose most things the government puts forward. The country will require a strong leader going forward and Enda just isn't it.

- I have a problem with labour in that they are much too close to the public sector and the associated unions. They are likely to introduce a raft of new taxes and only make minimal cuts in public spending. In the current situation the country finds itself in this is unacceptable. I just can't see Gilmore tackle the unions in the way that is needed.

- Greens. No chance. For failing to pull the plug on the current government and also for proposing to introduce further loony taxes...

- Sinn Fein. Hell would have to freeze over first.

- SWP. The end of time/universe as we know it would have to happen before I vote for them.

- FF. Failed policies of the last ten years, extensive corruption, incompetence, social partnership, weak leader... they need to go and not come back for a long time until they have rebuilt the party from the ground up.

I think a lot of people will be scratching their heads at the next election.... maybe we need Richard Pryor's "None of the above" candidates....

Ludo

I liked your post until I spotted your sig. You are saying there is no party worth voting for (which I strongly agree with you on) while trying to promote a new party? Come on now....tell us what you are really saying.

cavedave

One way to get some inkling on this is to do the political compass test and see what party you come out nearest. It is not perfect but might give you some more idea where you stand versus the others.

As for hating all the politicians, you always have to go for the least worst option in politics. No one will ever match what you believe fully. As South Park put it "it's always between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Nearly every election since the beginning of time has been between some douche and some turd. They're the only people who suck up enough to make it that far in politics. "

Permabear

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peasant

donegalfella wrote: »

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You forgot to mention the strange whiff of "celtic supremacy"

bauderline

Well I'll be dipped !!!

Smack Bang right on top of the green part dot... Excuse me whilst I go shoot myself....

bauderline

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

My aim is to raise the possibility of alternatives be they good or bad to the current raft of political parties... I really do think we need alternative options in the next election....

ectoraige

I'd been interested in Amhrann Nua, sent in some queries on their website last week, but if they have to resort to trolling boards.ie to get attention, they can't be worth much.

What a cheap post.

ectoraige

bauderline wrote: »

My aim is to raise the possibility of alternatives be they good or bad to the current raft of political parties... I really do think we need alternative options in the next election....

Ever heard of honest debate? Does everybody in Amhrán Nua think misleading people is the best way to garner interest?

bauderline

ectoraige wrote: »

Ever heard of honest debate? Does everybody in Amhrán Nua think misleading people is the best way to garner interest?

Listen, let me be vividly clear about this, I do not represent the views or thoughts of Amhran Nua. My post is a personal one and has nothing whatsoever to do with Amhran Nua.....

Editing sig as my thread is being hauled off topic by rent a mob...

Joey the lips

Christmas is coming so hell should freeze over.... Just lets hope that you get a winter election.

I usually vote on the basis of the person not the party otherwise i would never vote. Then again i use my TD's to get stuff done in the area.

ectoraige

bauderline wrote: »

Listen, let me be vividly clear about this, I do not represent the views or thoughts of Amhran Nua. My post is a personal one and has nothing whatsoever to do with Amhran Nua.....

Editing sig as my thread is being hauled off topic by rent a mob...

Apologies; as your sig had included the terms "link to us" and "we need", I'd thought it safe to assume that you were involved. That combined with the thread pointing at failings of all the established parties made it seem quite cynical.

bauderline

Joey the lips wrote: »

Christmas is coming so hell should freeze over.... Just lets hope that you get a winter election.

I usually vote on the basis of the person not the party otherwise i would never vote. Then again i use my TD's to get stuff done in the area.

LOL! Fair Play !

Interesting point you raise though, I think A LOT of people in rural Ireland vote on local issues and local candidates, taking this into account the reported demise of FF may be somewhat exaggerated, they are not holding on for grim death for the next two years for the hoots, I think they genuinely believe they can ride this one out...

Long Onion

Bauderline - who will you vote for, would you actually vote for Amhran Nua?

GatePost

bauderline wrote: »

Who the hell can I vote for ?

Maybe you could start and take some responsibility for your own actions, no?

bauderline

ectoraige wrote: »

Apologies; as your sig had included the terms "link to us" and "we need", I'd thought it safe to assume that you were involved. That combined with the thread pointing at failings of all the established parties made it seem quite cynical.

Well.. fair point actually... mea culpa....

bauderline

Long Onion wrote: »

Bauderline - who will you vote for, would you actually vote for Amhran Nua?

At the moment... No... But I will be watching to see how it evolves...

bauderline

GatePost wrote: »

Maybe you could start and take some responsibility for your own actions, no?

Crap post on your part !

At no point have I indicated I do not take responsibility for my actions. I stand behing everything I say and do, when I get it wrong, which I do sometimes as I do not claim to be perfect, I admit to it.

My point is simply this...at the moment I would find it very difficult to vote for any of the established political parties, I either disagree with their core policies or fail to see what policies they have that so that I can judge what they stand for. IMO none of them are fit for purpose !

If I had to vote tomorrow I would look for an independant candidate....

Biggins

To get back to the original question, I too now would vote for an independent or issue candidate putting themselves forward.
If more would do the same the clowns currently infesting the Dail would get the message, their ways are not wanted.

Until some sort of alternative better behaving, etc, org/party is more prominent thats the only route I can see.

turgon

Biggins wrote: »

To get back to the original question, I too now would vote for an independent or issue candidate putting themselves forward.

I would disagree. A single-issue candidate or an independent is not going to get this country back on it feet. It might damage the party system yeah, but how are a group of independents going to co-ordinate economic recovery? The pressing issues at the moment are national and thats why we need TD's with national issues.

In the end it comes down to voting for the least worst party.

Rob_l

turgon wrote: »

I would disagree. A single-issue candidate or an independent is not going to get this country back on it feet. It might damage the party system yeah, but how are a group of independents going to co-ordinate economic recovery? The pressing issues at the moment are national and thats why we need TD's with national issues.

In the end it comes down to voting for the least worst party.

While I agree with you that voting for single issue or independant candidates, wont allow us to steer this country in a singular national direction, I think the idea of voting for a party not becasue I believe they can do some good but because they are they are the least inept is also a very dangerous idea.

Biggins

turgon wrote: »

I would disagree. A single-issue candidate or an independent is not going to get this country back on it feet. It might damage the party system yeah, but how are a group of independents going to co-ordinate economic recovery?

By actually taking to each other and coming to a basic understanding? You know, like other some practical vast different organisations and members! O' look - the EU! A larger example.
Each with their own countries individual representative issues but coming together for the common good and working things out!

turgon wrote: »

The pressing issues at the moment are national and thats why we need TD's with national issues.

Where does it say independent TD's can't get together and address national issues?
Sure they might have their own personal issues but seeing as they are willing to stand up and care for something, surely with the same amount of willingness within them already, they are also willing to address such larger problems too!

turgon wrote: »

In the end it comes down to voting for the least worst party.

In other words, the least less evil?
(I wouldn't like to chose between Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin types for example (only) if they were running for a same election!)
Thats just madness. Bad is bad, no matter to what degree.
Once you start going down a slope heading down, you've chosen the direction of your country.

---

It boils down to this.
If we all started saying with our votes that we are no longer willing to prop up the farce that is the present parties, they would damn soon have to get their act together more so.
Until then, we can only blame ourselves for the continuous musical chairs system in the Dail.

turgon

Biggins wrote: »

By actually taking to each other and coming to a basic understanding?

Some independents will favour NAMA style schemes, some will favour a "good bank," some will favor temporary nationalization and recapitalization, some will favour permanent nationalization and the merging of all the banks into one big state bank. Its probable that a few free-marketeers will advocate doing nothing. In complex situations like this "basic understanding" is hard to come by and so time consuming that the government will slow down and be nearly ineffective.

Biggins wrote: »

You know, like other some practical vast different organisations and members! O' look - the EU! A larger example.

What you are trying to say is that because 27 nations can agree on certain measures that are clearly beneficial to all, such as a single market, a group of 80 independent representatives can co-decide every single decision to be made for a whole country. Its a very poor analogy.

The EU is fortunate enough that areas where what constitutes the "common good" is ideologically divisive are left to the member states.

Biggins wrote: »

Sure they might have their own personal issues but seeing as they are willing to stand up and care for something, surely with the same amount of willingness within them already, they are also willing to address such larger problems too!

They will care for what they believe in. And fundamentally your not going to get 80 people to believe in the same things.

Imagine if FF operated on a system of complete independence. No central ideology whatsoever, every man for himself. The government would have collapsed many times over. FG and Labour would be in. Imagine they operated on the same system. They would also have collapsed many many times over.

Its a completely unsustainable type of governance.

Biggins wrote: »

If we all started saying with our votes that we are no longer willing to prop up the farce that is the present parties, they would damn soon have to get their act together more so.

I would prefer the current system - poor government - to the system you propose which will end up being no government. In the Road to Serfdom Hayek argues exactly this, that if decisions are to be taken by everyone eventually the lack of consensus will drive governance to a halt.

Biggins

turgon wrote: »

Some independents will favour NAMA style schemes, some will favour a "good bank," some will favor temporary nationalization and recapitalization, some will favour permanent nationalization and the merging of all the banks into one big state bank. Its probable that a few free-marketeers will advocate doing nothing. In complex situations like this "basic understanding" is hard to come by and so time consuming that the government will slow down and be nearly ineffective.

So your saying that by discussion and a democratic process they can't come to a satisfactory conclusion?

turgon wrote: »

What you are trying to say is that because 27 nations can agree on certain measures that are clearly beneficial to all, such as a single market, a group of 80 independent representatives can co-decide every single decision to be made for a whole country. Its a very poor analogy.

Its one example used analogy. Ther are many, many others being used daily in work places. Don't shoot the whole process because one example used also has its flaw and well at its good points!

turgon wrote: »

They will care for what they believe in. And fundamentally your not going to get 80 people to believe in the same things.

Really?
To use one rough example: all the waring factions up north have had different ideas about how to do things.
With time, talk, and a bit more willingness to see sense they are coming around to the path of peace across the board.
Who will blindly stand up still and say many sides can't come at times together and reach the same principles!

turgon wrote: »

I would prefer the current system - poor government - to the system you propose which will end up being no government. In the Road to Serfdom Hayek argues exactly this, that if decisions are to be taken by everyone eventually the lack of consensus will drive governance to a halt.

Poor system or just BAD system? Same thing in politics but just PR word spin.
Bad governments still leads to a downwards slope. Its damn hard to climb back up it and if the present operating parties don't want to go that direction as the present lot don't wish to do by not introducing some much needed changes, the rollercoaster slope is still pointing downwards the majority of the time.

----

I'm not advocating that we should be voting independent at every election.
But until the main groups get the message, come and get their act together, a message has to be hammered home to them.

Until we do that, nothing will bloody change. We will stick in one fashion or other with the same type of characters/actions within the Dail.
Knowing that one way or another they will be always propped up by willing complacent sheep of this country, gives them a basic reassurance that their positions are comfortable to some extent ...and thus we continually get what we get!

ei.sdraob

cavedave wrote: »

One way to get some inkling on this is to do the political compass test and see what party you come out nearest. It is not perfect but might give you some more idea where you stand versus the others.

As for hating all the politicians, you always have to go for the least worst option in politics. No one will ever match what you believe fully. As South Park put it "it's always between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Nearly every election since the beginning of time has been between some douche and some turd. They're the only people who suck up enough to make it that far in politics. "

thanks for that

some questions are weird and confusing (double negatives!)

Economic Left/Right: 2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

that places me close to Labour, hmmmm

Liam Byrne

Whatever about the motives behind bauderline's post, or his affiliation to any party, I think all of the questions and points are fairly spot-on.

Add in the reports of everyone in the Dail clapping O'Donoghue today, and it looks like it's going to have to be a complete de-lousing of Dail Eireann before there's anyone worth voting for.

Anyone know some good exterminators, and a day that ALL TDs will be present and - if possible- "accounted for" ?

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Anyone know some good exterminators, and a day that ALL TDs will be present and - if possible- "accounted for" ?

We have enough exterminators in this country already and the best day would be budget day!

Liam Byrne

Biggins wrote: »

We have enough exterminators in this country already and the best day would be budget day!

True; unfortunately, the Greens are so environmentally friendly that they don't want us to use exterminators......they proved that on Saturday....

Dannyboy83

Well, if Labour give a guarantee that they'll balance the budget through a combination of cutting PS wages and social welfare, reform of ministerial expenses, etc., then they'll get my vote.

Otherwise the ONLY option for the future of this country is Fine Gael, regardless of how spineless or misled you think they are, they've an alternative to NAMA and have said they will cut the PS wages and reform the PS & Health Service akin to the Dutch Model where patients are a profit not a cost .

Dj Stiggie

bauderline wrote: »

Well I'll be dipped !!!

Smack Bang right on top of the green part dot... Excuse me whilst I go shoot myself....

I'll join you, I got the same

Permabear

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