Who the hell can I vote for ?

meditraitor

bauderline wrote: »

So I am starting to think about this two years out.... Who the hell can I vote for ?

- I have a problem with FG as the entire upper echelon of the party appears to be spineless and without direction, they have no clear policies, they just oppose most things the government puts forward. The country will require a strong leader going forward and Enda just isn't it.

- I have a problem with labour in that they are much too close to the public sector and the associated unions. They are likely to introduce a raft of new taxes and only make minimal cuts in public spending. In the current situation the country finds itself in this is unacceptable. I just can't see Gilmore tackle the unions in the way that is needed.

- Greens. No chance. For failing to pull the plug on the current government and also for proposing to introduce further loony taxes...

- Sinn Fein. Hell would have to freeze over first.

- SWP. The end of time/universe as we know it would have to happen before I vote for them.

- FF. Failed policies of the last ten years, extensive corruption, incompetence, social partnership, weak leader... they need to go and not come back for a long time until they have rebuilt the party from the ground up.

I think a lot of people will be scratching their heads at the next election.... maybe we need Richard Pryor's "None of the above" candidates....

I think you are very much mistaking by generalising about what any of the opposition parties will do by referencing some soundbites which are I have no doubt being used by FFailures to sully them.
This trick has been used for 20 years and some people are not so easily blinded by FF smoke and mirrors. Sadly a lot of people like yourself are and this is why change is going to be so difficult in this country.

How can anyone here say if a Labour/FG government will fail? Its all supposition with no basis on reality.

Lets move away from this negativity and focus on the reality, they cannot be as bad as what we have now

Personnaly I think a labour led (fantasy land I know) government would be the best way froward in this country.

Permabear

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bauderline

meditraitor wrote: »

I think you are very much mistaking by generalising about what any of the opposition parties will do by referencing some soundbites which are I have no doubt being used by FFailures to sully them.
This trick has been used for 20 years and some people are not so easily blinded by FF smoke and mirrors. Sadly a lot of people like yourself are and this is why change is going to be so difficult in this country.

How can anyone here say if a Labour/FG government will fail? Its all supposition with no basis on reality.

Lets move away from this negativity and focus on the reality, they cannot be as bad as what we have now

Personnaly I think a labour led (fantasy land I know) government would be the best way froward in this country.

ehhhh NO!

... I base my opinions soley on what the people/leaders of the respective parties do and say. I don't pay much attention to what they say about each other... it generally isn't an objective view...

I am sorry but labour is to left wing and socialist leaning for my liking, they have already said explicitly that they are unlikely to cut public sector pay, at that's scratched off my list right there...

Permabear

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meditraitor

donegalfella wrote: »

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What Gilmore was saying is that those PS's on low and middle income should be left alone for the moment because that would only take money out of the economy.

Below is a quote from Gilmore

Reiterating that he was saying no to public sector pay cuts, Mr Gilmore continued: “We’ve already said there are areas where economies could be achieved in the public service pay budget.

“One of those is at the top end, and we have proposed that there should be a cap on salaries at the top end and we have said what that cap should be. Secondly, we have argued, in terms of equity as much as anything else, that there should be a third taxation band and it should apply to earnings of over €100,000.

“We are already saying quite clearly, let me be clear about this, there has already been a cut in pay for people who work in the public services, that people who are on low and middle incomes are not in a position to bear further pay cuts.”

He will cut Public service pay but not those at the lower and mid level.

Labour have full intention of sorting the Public service out, you only have to look at the Document on restoring confidence to see that the public service is not imune from future Labour economic plans
http://www.labour.ie/policy/listing/1243932820420700.html
5. Reforming Public Services: Labour is determined to lead reform in our Public Services to deliver better, more cost effective services in the interests both of promoting economic activity and of developing a fairer society.

And just to prove my original point you will certainly retort by saying
"he wont touch the public service bla bl bla" usual ff muddy waters propoganda.

Stop spouting rubbish about what the opposition party's will/might do because that is only guesswork on your behalf and is proof if needed that the reason we fell for FF the last 15 years was some people are easily led

So get behind a concerted effert to remove the current bunch of ****s

The public service needs reform not sweeping pay cuts,

Permabear

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turgon

meditraitor wrote: »

5. Reforming Public Services: Labour is determined to lead reform in our Public Services to deliver better, more cost effective services in the interests both of promoting economic activity and of developing a fairer society.

The usual social democrac nonysense. We will make things "fairer," "effective" and more "efficient." The opposition can always do things "better" than the government. Until they become the government. Then the inefficiency stays.

The fact of the matter is is that the institution of government itself is incapable of efficiency and cost effectiveness. Consider the difference between traveling from Cork to Dublin and back through the public sector (train; €78; 3hrs) or the Private sector (plane; as low as €10; 25 mins). You just cant compare it.

Gilmore is just spouting meaningless rhetoric and nothing more. Theres very little way to be more cost-effective if changing wages is a no-no. I really wonder how Gilmore intends to reform the public service?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

typo

What private entities pay their workers is none of the governments business, unless said entity is relying on the government for support (such as certain banks in the US). Given that me you and everyone else are paying for the public sector we have the right to wish that our money is not wasted.

EDIT: appears that I am the latest Boards.ie poster to suffer from taking posts literally

EDIT 2: Social democracy instead of democratic socialism.

Permabear

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meditraitor

donegalfella wrote: »

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What can they do, FF have continually misled the country about how much trouble we are in! How can anyone expect a complete economic plan from an opposition party when the ruling party has not been forthcoming with a single piece of accurate data!!
Look at the recent budget forcasts, what type of eejits calculated them?And who gave them the job?

donegalfella wrote: »

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Spotted that straight away,an old trick straight from the ff locker. focus on one point and make it look like its the only one... clever but no cigar;) That is not the only proposition.
The public service needs to be reformed and as many Jobs kept as possible, reducing the public service in a time of rising unemployment is one of the most rediculous solutions I have heard but.....

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ireland public sector is too large in comparison to what? Dont just throw out meaningless waffle without backing it up. There are jobs to be done by our public sector, the real problem is how they are been done. Cost effectiveness etc

donegalfella wrote: »

Major Problem Number 2: Ireland's public-sector workers are overcompensated. The ESRI recently showed that public-sector workers in 2003 earned an average of 9.7 percent more than workers in the private sector. Three years later, in 2006, the differential had grown to 21.6 percent. When the value of public -ector pensions were included, the gap was almost 25 percent. And the gap between public and private sectors has widened over the past year, as the recession has hit the private-sector worker hardest. Solution: We need to reduce private-sector wages by an average of 30 percent across the board..

This needs to be addresses but getting rid of a big chunk of the public sector is not the way, make them work for this money (the higher wage bracket 24 hour week moron/cute whore who is dragging the public sector into the mud). How the public sector works needs to be addressed not how many. JOBS my good friend are a valuble commodity nowadays not just to those who have them but to the economy.

donegalfella wrote: »

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How do you know this? You made it up and that is the crux of your argument so I cant see anything valid in what you say..


We need to replace FF now,

Labour will tackle these problem with honesty and integrity something that is completely lacking in the current government. The people will be at the heart of govenment not the hangers on and other interested parties who have so sullied our country with the help of FFailure.

Tell me honestly, do you think that the bankers and contruction industry would have got away with the sh1t they have put us in under a Labour government? consider their lefty socialist leanings.... NEVER

They may not make us an economic powerhouse but at least everyone will get a fair shot.

Even FG would do a better Job!

meditraitor

turgon wrote: »

The usual democratic socialism nonsense. We will make things "fairer," "effective" and more "efficient." The opposition can always do things "better" than the government. Until they become the government. Then the inefficiency stays.

The fact of the matter is is that the institution of government itself is incapable of efficiency and cost effectiveness. Consider the difference between traveling from Cork to Dublin and back through the public sector (train; €78; 3hrs) or the Private sector (plane; as low as €10; 25 mins). You just cant compare it.

Gilmore is just spouting meaningless rhetoric and nothing more. Theres very little way to be more cost-effective if changing wages is a no-no. I really wonder how Gilmore intends to reform the public service?



What private entities pay their workers is none of the governments business, unless said entity is relying on the government for support (such as certain banks in the US). Given that me you and everyone else are paying for the public sector we have the right to wish that our money is not wasted.

But you are making assumptions Turgon, and your opinion is shared by many people but I would like to give them a chance before writting them off. The attitude you have towards politics is quit reasonable when you take into account recent developments in this country but I try to be a bit more positive and thats why I say "give them a chance". Things cannot get much worse.

I have a bit more faith in Labour than most and I am beginning to sound like some sort of Labour campaigner which I certainly am not.

I just think they have a more honest face than the others, I could be wrong....... Just like the hoards of FF followers are and have been

Permabear

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irish_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

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its not only a question of labour not having the spine , no party can turn on its base and remain a force , the public sector are labour,s base