Officeman to Ironman

Carb

Well, another disasterous weekend. Started off quite well. Got a 5 mile run in on Friday night, again in about 42 mins. Then it was all sharply downhill. I had initially hoped to get in a LSR of about 8 -10 miles on Saturday, but due to time constraints I had to revise this down to 7. That was the plan going out the door, but actually turned out to be a 4.5 mile painfest (42 mins). I can easily say this was the most horrible run I've encountered since I started getting into this a couple of months ago, if not not the most horrible "training session" I've ever had for any sport. A truly soul destroying experience.

And that sums up my weekend. I just didn't feel well for the rest of the weekend. I took the dog for a one mile walk on Sunday and yesterday and I felt quite drained. I was painting all day yesterday which probably played a part. I know I'm dropping weight at the moment. I'm 3 -5lb lighter than two weeks ago, but I really would have expected this to stabilise or actually increase over the weekend due to the lack of activity, and the amount of crap I ate. I need to to keep an eye on things here, as I'm not going to make much progress if I don't have the energy and I really need to start making the weekends count.

Anyway, I have my swimming lesson today, and I plan to be on the turbo this evening for what ever length the film "fifty dead men walking" lasts. I had intended the turbo session for the weekend, but it wasn't to be.

tunney

You need to drop the focus on time and distance. Just pick a time that you are going to run for and run for that duration. Once the base is there then start worrying about pace and distance.

Carb

tunney wrote: »

You need to drop the focus on time and distance. Just pick a time that you are going to run for and run for that duration. Once the base is there then start worrying about pace and distance.

I know my posts come across as a focus on time but that hasn't really been the case, not since I started back at this a couple of weeks ago. I run a 2.5 mile loop during the week, and the only time I actually look at my watch is when I'm starting lap 2. I'm pretty much going by feel at the moment. I suppose I only post the time/distance for info as there's not much interest in reading that somebody ran for 45 mins last night. I know what you're saying though.

I'm not that worried about time and distance until after December. Hoping Santa will bring me a garmin of some sort.:)

Saturday was a different kettle of fish. I had done 7/8 mile slow runs before and was rather comfortable. I left the house with a spring in my step, but on the second 1.5 miles of my planned route which has a couple of nasty hills, I hit a relentless gale force head wind that I nearly couldn't breath in, at times I'd imagine I was leaning at a 75 degree angle, and every step involved a massive push forward. Nevermind the rain hurting my face. I suppose I never found my legs after this, and ended up cutting the run short.

I realise days like this are what make you stronger, but at the moment I'm just a little disappointed at how it impacted on my great intentions for the rest of the weekend. I'll get over it. Onwards and upwards.

Carb

Feeling a little more positive today:)

Had my swimming lesson yesterday and I can feel progress been made already. At this stage the instructor seems very good and gives everbody just enough attention. With only five in the class the drills are relentless and I was completey worn out at the end. One drill involved kcking on your side holding on to a float with one outstretched arm, the other down your side. My back didn't know what hit it.

I spent 1hr 15mins on the turbo trainer last night. Nothing much to report other than the film was crap. Nice to get past the hour stage though.

Back to the gym this morning. Legs weren't all that fresh after last nights session, so it wasn't exactly enjoyable. Managed to keep the weights the same or up slightly in some cases. Didn't get to do my back extensions as some guy was wasting his time on the smith machine (I need to use this to hook my feet under). Anyway this morning's workout.

Wednesday 28th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 10 60 13 60 13 60
Hamstring Curl (Individual legs) 13 27.5 13 27.5
Leg Extension (Individual legs) 13 25 13 25
Single Leg Calf Raise (Dumbell) 13 12 13 12
Back Extension 0 0
Plank 30secs 30secs 30secs

Carb

If good intentions translated into training sessions, I'd probably hold many world records.:). Going home yesterday evening I felt fairly fresh, and I thought to myself, what a nice mild evening and at last, no wind. Maybe I'll get a good run in tonight. However, such is the randomness of family life, I ended up confined to baby sitting duties. I'll skip the report on that.

Back to the pool this moring. Got about 350m done, but it was a little frustrating. In the last lesson, we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again. It's a bit like been back to square one where I'm having to concentrate on everything. One step back for two steps forward hopefully. I'm going to skip the gym in the morning and hit the pool again. I think I'll also drop the gym to one morning a week, and go to the pool four mornings. Not a lot of point having strong shoulders and not been able to swim.

Finally, as a follow on to my good intentions comment at the start of this post. My last log was full of "I'd like to do X race" or "I intend doing Y race" and I never actually did. So this morning I bit the bullet. I'm now registered for the 2010 Connemara marathon, all 26 miles of it.:eek:

MCOS

Carb wrote: »

If good intentions translated into training sessions, I'd probably hold many world records.:). Going home yesterday evening I felt fairly fresh, and I thought to myself, what a nice mild evening and at last, no wind. Maybe I'll get a good run in tonight. However, such is the randomness of family life, I ended up confined to baby sitting duties. I'll skip the report on that.

Back to the pool this moring. Got about 350m done, but it was a little frustrating. In the last lesson, we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again. It's a bit like been back to square one where I'm having to concentrate on everything. One step back for two steps forward hopefully. I'm going to skip the gym in the morning and hit the pool again. I think I'll also drop the gym to one morning a week, and go to the pool four mornings. Not a lot of point having strong shoulders and not been able to swim.

Finally, as a follow on to my good intentions comment at the start of this post. My last log was full of "I'd like to do X race" or "I intend doing Y race" and I never actually did. So this morning I bit the bullet. I'm now registered for the 2010 Connemara marathon, all 26 miles of it.:eek:

Hi Carb,

Just catching up on your log. Good job so far and fair play on setting the targets for yourself. Conn Marathon is a beautiful Marathon. I can understand the swimming frustration but believe me it will come with consistency. Good decision to drop a weights sess for a swim, the swim will still work your shoulders you know! The key to achieving your objectives is to work backwards from them. That means having a vision of yourself on the day of your Marathon and knowing how fit and strong you feel. The gap between now and then is all the time you have to feel like that and everthing you do will edge you closer. The more specific a purpose your training has the quicker you close that gap. Quality will be even more important with the commuting, family and work/life balancing act. Keep everything easy for the winter and allow you body to adapt to the stresses gradually. Remember your fitness and strength is building as you recover between sessions!

2 quick suggestions to keep the training interesting especially over teh winter.
1. Prioritise 2-3 workouts in your weekly schedule. So if you have 9 sessions, choose which 3 are most important.
2. Have some fun in sessions. For example on the turbo if you have the TV on watching the footie, get out of the saddle when your team counter attack or do 1 min of single leg repeats for every corner.... might seem like mad stuff but it just makes the time fly

Delighted to see another IM log up here and I wish you the very best of luck with your journey. I'm sure many of us will learn plenty from your log but not in the same ballpark as what you will learn about yourself by executing you plan and achieving your IM goal

Carb

Thanks for the support MCOS.

Am I right in saying that you only learned to swim in recent years or did I pick that up worng. If you did, what was your timeline like, ie how long before you felt comfortable breathing, when could you string a couple of lengths together etc. Sometimes it's hard to guage if I'm progressing as I should be although I think increasing the number of swims should yield improvements.

jb-ski

hi, carb

well done on booking Conn Marathon, it's a lovely event.
(i did 1/2 this year, registered for full next year).

Enjoying your log so far, will keep looking in
to keep me motivated ( and borrow some of the advice you're getting
from the experts Mcos, tunney etc:))

Also full credit to your time management skills!

Carb

jb-ski wrote: »

hi, carb

well done on booking Conn Marathon, it's a lovely event.
(i did 1/2 this year, registered for full next year).

Enjoying your log so far, will keep looking in
to keep me motivated ( and borrow some of the advice you're getting
from the experts Mcos, tunney etc:))

Also full credit to your time management skills!

Thanks jb-ski. Any targets set for the marathon yet and have you any training plan in mind.

One of the great things about this forum is that it's full of of people who have been there, bought the t-shirt. You can't beat advice from people with real life experiences of these events. I have to admit though, I'm always a little aprehensive opening the thread when I see Tunney's been in. Keep expecting I'll get given out to.:D

Anyway, back to training. Had a 2.5 mile run in 23 mins last night. Had intended doing more but my legs were having absolutely none of it. Felt like the sort of night you could pick up an injury very easily as I kept getting random twinges. So I cut it short, went home and spent about 15 mins stretching and then ate far too much potatoes and beef stew. The one positive was that I thought I was running much slower, so I was surprised to see 23 mins when I got to the end of the lap.

Legs felt much better this morning. I headed back to the pool. I've no idea on how much I swam as I was concentrating on trying to get my breathing right. I definitely made progress, although I still occasionally create a wave with my arm and when I turn to breathe, I get a nice mouthful of water. I need to get a decent pair of goggles too.

MCOS

Carb wrote: »

Thanks for the support MCOS.

Am I right in saying that you only learned to swim in recent years or did I pick that up worng. If you did, what was your timeline like, ie how long before you felt comfortable breathing, when could you string a couple of lengths together etc. Sometimes it's hard to guage if I'm progressing as I should be although I think increasing the number of swims should yield improvements.

Hi Carb I started swimming about 15 months ago. Initially it was just a few lengths of a 20m leisure center pool to break up the monotony of running I was doing in 2008. Then someone suggested I do a Tri. I found out what the swim was and so worked my way up to 1.5k in the 20m pool, just adding lengths nearly every time I visited. I never had lessons and breathing every 4 just seemed to get me through it. The one thing I focused mostly on was trying to cover the 20m in fewer strokes. At first it took me 22 strokes so I set my sights on 20, then 18 etc... So, having reached the mark I decided in Aug 2008 to time myself doing a 1500 in the UL 50m (my first time in that pool). I didn't take account of how much I had been 'resting' in the smaller pool. I'd literally stop at the wall at go again. The 50m took it out of me and I struggled big time, breathing every 2 for most of it. I needed a couple of rests but completed the 1500 in about 45minutes, cramping up badly on the final length. I then broke my 20m pool sessions (usually done at lunch time) into 6*200m. I was reading up on technique and just trying to apply one thing at a time. After a month of this I had my 1500 down to 34mins. I joined a Tri club in Oct 2008 and started swimming with a group doing specific sets, this accelarated my progress. This had me down to 29 mins by xmas and I was doing 2k total in session. I had set my sights on doing a sub 30 min swim at Joey and wanted to be able to swim for an hour straight. I basically focussed on the swimming over the winter and exceeded my target at Joey albeit it nearly gave me a heart attack. To be honest I put it down to just sticking at it consistently. I then discovered a wetsuit helps your legs float and swimming became an enjoyable part of Triathlon

In retrospect I probably should have had lessons and worked on technique a lot more, however my only concern was being able to cover the distance I wasn't bothered how ugly my stroke was. After Joey I taught myself to breath bilaterally again literally by practice and asking swimmers for tips. I also added a few hundreds to each session easy until I could do 3k non stop (I had the Lost Sheep in mind). By the end of the season swimming had become one of my stronger legs of the 3 disciplines and 1500 was down to 27 ... next season target 25 yikes :eek:


On the off season now I'm doing one pure technical drills session once a week and a swim with structured sets. I really noticed that my swim fitness went from zero to doing the 1.9k comfortably in sept this year through hard work. After a good few weeks of a layoff from the pool though (nearly 2 months) my swim fitness has dropped dramatically and I struggled to keep up with the group this morning. The drills are helping me think more about technique now and while I'm probably swimming slower it will ultimately have me swimming more efficiently and thus faster next year once I have my fitness back up (fingers crossed).

So to sum all that waffle up, practice one thing at a time until you have a grasp of it. Believe me I swallowed so much water learning to breathe bilaterally I often thought, whats the point. Just when I have that down though, I am shown superman kicking drills and MCOS is gulping pool water once again.....

Carb

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm lucky enough that the one thing that was pushed on us in the non swimmer/beginners lessons in summer, was breathing on the third stroke, so although I still can't get my breath right, I've a habit of wanting to turn for it on the third stroke. Previously, I always had an inclination to turn to my left. It's nice to know that swallowing half the pool isn't unique to me.

I suppose I'm not a million miles of your starting point. I haven't really ventured into the deep end due to my breathing as I don't want to inhale a mouthful of water when I can't get my feet down, but if I could get this mastered, I think I proably have a couple of continuous lengths in me. If 4 days a week in the pool doesn't sort the problem, I may put the TT bike up for sale.:)

catweazle

You are probably ok Carb as you are getting swimming lessons but I self taught myself from about a year ago, I got the Total Immerision Freestyle CD downloaded off Pirate Bay, I would very much recommend it.

I was worried I had a dodgy knee a while back so I did nothing but swimming for a month, swimming has come on in leaps and bounds now these days.

I also got a pull bouy and flippers a month or two ago and these are great as well as I can work longer on my arm technique without my legs getting tired.

I was around 15 minutes swim for the sprints earlier in the year but I have noticed in the pool over the last few weeks I am comfortably holding 1.55 second 5 * 100 metre drills from 2.00 during the summer. I credit this to concentrating on my pull through underwater over the last month or so.

Good luck with your log, I am humming and hawing about what I will do next year, one friend wants to do HM in Barcelona in May and the other friend wants to do full IM in september next year.

I want in between a HM at the end of next season will keep me happy so we will see how it turns out, I will start a log myself when I book the flight to whatever I am doing

DustyBin

Hi Carb
Best of luck with your log and your goals - you're not taking the easy way out anyway
I'll be keeping an eye on your log as I hope to be able to improve my swimming over the winter. I really want to be able to burst out a few Olympic Tri's next year. I did two Duathlon's (sprint distance) and a tri this year, but swimming is bad, really bad.
I've signed up for the Connemarathon too - will be my first marathon - see you there at the top of Hell of the West

jb-ski

Carb wrote: »

Any targets set for the marathon yet and have you any training plan in mind.

One of the great things about this forum is that it's full of of people who have been there, bought the t-shirt. .

Hi, Carb

did DCM on Monday in 3 50, so something similar would
be plan for Conn for now. (will review in February!).
Sticking with Hal Higdon, with lots of help from John O’ Regan.
http://johnoregan.blogspot.com/

I’ve been doing tri’s (all open Water) and various 10K’s, ½ Mara’s since June 2008,
and have been content to be a mid table finisher. I just really enjoy the events.
However I (and Mrs jb-ski) joined a running group in August, and the advice and encouragement we’ve received is incredible. So if there’s a club near you,
join up.

Again I have to say, the dedication and progress of MCOS (and others here) is inspirational.

Roll on the winter training :eek: .

Carb

Another very inconsistent weekend. It was the kid's birthday on Friday, so I couldn't get out to do anything. On Saturday, I would probably be doing myself an injustice to say I did nothing. A 50ft inflatable obstacle course arrived at 10 in the morning, and the best part of the day was spent on this, with the odd break to eat something I really shouldn't. There is nothing like a four year old hyped up on sweets and fizzy drinks to use up your energy.

Sunday, I finally got out to to do something. I tried to follow Tunney's advice in relation to picking a length of time to run for, and disregard the pace/distance. So I decided I'd aim for 1hr 10mins, by running for 35 mins one way, and then come back the same route. So ran for 34 mins (happened to be a junction), and ended up to doing the return in 30 mins. Neither length caused any grief and I should certainly have no hassle upping the duration. Checked mapmyrun this morning and it's about 3.3 mile each way. I actually quite like this route as it is one of the very few realtively flat options I have, so I've no doubt I'll be back on it.

It was downhill after that. after my run I did the exact same thing to my foot as the last time, only this time I was stepping over the hoover rather than going up the stairs. My foot was very sore at times yesterday, but is much improved today. I might be able to chance the bike this evening. Both times now it has happened after taking my runners off immediately after my run (ie wet), so I know to exercise a lot more caution in future.

Third swimming lesson today.

DaveyByrne

Hi all,

I've been doing triathlons for about 4 years. I did the Kenmare H-IM in Sept - what an amazing experience that was!

Since you're trying to get on top of your swimming, I thought I'd share some of my swimming techniques that I have used to bring my friends from absolute beginners to decent swimmers over a matter of a few weeks. I'm not a swim coach, but I've worked out a few things that are beneficial for beginners in my opinion...

1. Breathing: When you run/cycle you are accustomed to fully inflating and deflating your lungs. This is a bad idea while swimming. First, as you start swimming make sure your lungs are at full capacity of air. I mean full to bursting. This will give you excellent buoyancy. Then start swimming, and breathing to one side only. When you look to the left, only breathe out about 1/3 of your lung capacity. Then breathe in very rapidly to re-inflate your lungs. It should take about a quarter of a second to take a quick breath out, and a quick one in.

You see, when you deflate your lungs too much you sink by a few inches, and it makes it harder to get back up for the next breath. By leaving 2/3 of the air in your lungs you avoid this and you stay on the top of the water. Feel free to breathe every second stroke (say, on your left side) while you are getting this technique working. You need to train your cardiovascular system to not rely on gasping huge lungfuls of air. Keep your lungs full of air for as long as you can - shallow and more frequent breaths do the job. If you're feeling out of breath using this technique, relax and lengthen your stroke until you feel comfortable and keep practicing. Eventually it will become second nature.

2. Extend To Air: this little nugget is the key to swimming fast. It goes hand in hand with the breathing - basically avoiding the temptation to pull with your stroke while you take a breath. This wastes the stroke because it's inefficient. When you are sinking because of bad breathing (above), this causes you to pull with your leading arm as you try to get up for the breath, so master the breathing first, and then move onto this and you will be amazed how much you speed up. Here's a Youtube vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqqNO3WYZ0

3. Swimming drills: This vid will show you about the mechanics of what you should be trying to do in the water:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48

4. Kicking: If you are getting out of breath, ease off on the kicking. I've read that about 90% of the propulsion in swimming comes from your upper body so don't worry about kicking much. For the time being use your feet to give you stability. I find that most people who are getting out of breath while swimming are kicking way too much. I keep kicking to a minimum. When I pull with my right arm, I give a kick with my left food for stability, so my kicks are in opposite sequence with my arms... it's like this:

Kicking: LEFT-right-left-RIGHT-left-right

So every third kick is a strong one in sequence with your opposite arm stroke.

5. Closed-Fist Drill: When you've mastered the above, try some closed-fist drills... basically swimming a few lengths with your fists clenched. This will train you to use the rest of your body to propel yourself and is great for building speed. Swimming is not just about your hands and feet - it's about using your entire body to slide through the water (think: Dolphin). Even how you flex and arch your back can provide some propulsion and streamline your way through the water. Closed-fist drills are difficult, but when you go back to normal swimming with your hands open you will feel the extra speed.


Good luck!

dario28

Carb wrote: »

we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again

Im in the learning stages as well eyeing up an 70.3 or full for Sept next yr. Ill start lessons next yr but that this book is invaluable

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/449987/Total-Immersion/Product.html?&engine=froogle_books&keyword=Total+Immersion+-+Terry+Laughlin&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:449987|cat:Books+%3E+Sports+%26+Games

Also - in it it suggests to reach each stroke as if you are reaching for the wall on your last stroke - not sure why over stretching would be bad - more glide = less strokes ???????

Carb

DaveyByrne wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been doing triathlons for about 4 years. I did the Kenmare H-IM in Sept - what an amazing experience that was!

Since you're trying to get on top of your swimming, I thought I'd share some of my swimming techniques that I have used to bring my friends from absolute beginners to decent swimmers over a matter of a few weeks. I'm not a swim coach, but I've worked out a few things that are beneficial for beginners in my opinion...

1. Breathing: When you run/cycle you are accustomed to fully inflating and deflating your lungs. This is a bad idea while swimming. First, as you start swimming make sure your lungs are at full capacity of air. I mean full to bursting. This will give you excellent buoyancy. Then start swimming, and breathing to one side only. When you look to the left, only breathe out about 1/3 of your lung capacity. Then breathe in very rapidly to re-inflate your lungs. It should take about a quarter of a second to take a quick breath out, and a quick one in.

You see, when you deflate your lungs too much you sink by a few inches, and it makes it harder to get back up for the next breath. By leaving 2/3 of the air in your lungs you avoid this and you stay on the top of the water. Feel free to breathe every second stroke (say, on your left side) while you are getting this technique working. You need to train your cardiovascular system to not rely on gasping huge lungfuls of air. Keep your lungs full of air for as long as you can - shallow and more frequent breaths do the job. If you're feeling out of breath using this technique, relax and lengthen your stroke until you feel comfortable and keep practicing. Eventually it will become second nature.

2. Extend To Air: this little nugget is the key to swimming fast. It goes hand in hand with the breathing - basically avoiding the temptation to pull with your stroke while you take a breath. This wastes the stroke because it's inefficient. When you are sinking because of bad breathing (above), this causes you to pull with your leading arm as you try to get up for the breath, so master the breathing first, and then move onto this and you will be amazed how much you speed up. Here's a Youtube vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqqNO3WYZ0

3. Swimming drills: This vid will show you about the mechanics of what you should be trying to do in the water:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48

4. Kicking: If you are getting out of breath, ease off on the kicking. I've read that about 90% of the propulsion in swimming comes from your upper body so don't worry about kicking much. For the time being use your feet to give you stability. I find that most people who are getting out of breath while swimming are kicking way too much. I keep kicking to a minimum. When I pull with my right arm, I give a kick with my left food for stability, so my kicks are in opposite sequence with my arms... it's like this:

Kicking: LEFT-right-left-RIGHT-left-right

So every third kick is a strong one in sequence with your opposite arm stroke.

5. Closed-Fist Drill: When you've mastered the above, try some closed-fist drills... basically swimming a few lengths with your fists clenched. This will train you to use the rest of your body to propel yourself and is great for building speed. Swimming is not just about your hands and feet - it's about using your entire body to slide through the water (think: Dolphin). Even how you flex and arch your back can provide some propulsion and streamline your way through the water. Closed-fist drills are difficult, but when you go back to normal swimming with your hands open you will feel the extra speed.


Good luck!

Thanks for the tips and support. I'll make sure to give them a go. It does seem to be so much about the breathing.

Dario28 wrote:

Im in the learning stages as well eyeing up an 70.3 or full for Sept next yr. Ill start lessons next yr but that this book is invaluable

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/449987/Total-Immersion/Product.html?&engine=froogle_books&keyword=Total+Immersion+-+Terry+Laughlin&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:449987|cat:Books+%3E+Sports+%26+Games

Also - in it it suggests to reach each stroke as if you are reaching for the wall on your last stroke - not sure why over stretching would be bad - more glide = less strokes ???????

I've seen total immersion mentioned a couple of times in book and DVD format. I might look into it.

In relation to the overstretching. I'm referring to my habit of my hand entering the water when my arm is at full stretch. What the lessons are trying to get us to do is lead with the elbow when bringing the hand out of the water at the end of the stroke, keep the elbow high, and point the hand into the waterjust past your head. You then extend your reach just under the surface of the water. Sounds easy when I say it like that.

tunney

Snatch breathing is a terrible idea and if your body position is so poor that this has any effect they you have much much bigger problems. Buoyancy comes from "pushing the buoy", a reasonable kick and a symmetrical stroke. Breathing is tricky, the breathing should be timed to fit seemlessly in with the natural roll of the body from pushing at the back of the stroke. You can overkick however a 4-1 or 6-1 kick is desired, not a 1-1, and a symmetrical kick.

The fisting drill is an excellent drill but some basic understanding of what it is meant to do and how it is meant to work is required.
It has everything to do with teaching you to pull with your forearm and to use you forarm to catch the water, you do need a reasonable kick and body position to do this.
http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_swim/tno_swimarticle_15.asp An excellent tool for fist like swimming are PT paddles, hard to get at the moment but they work.

DaveyByrne

I only recommend the snatch breathing for beginners, until they get the speed to maintain their position in the water... it seems to me that most beginners end up having to stretch each time to get a breath.

Hi elbow forearm catch and rolling in the water are really advanced techniques... but they do work very well. No point in discussing these with beginners until they are swimming well on their own technique.

+1 for Total Immersion - they're great

When you say a 4-1 or a 6-1 kick, does this mean kicks per arm-stroke? I think I do a 3-1 kick... which seems wierd now that I think about it. It works though. Hmmm... are you a swim coach?

tunney

DaveyByrne wrote: »

I only recommend the snatch breathing for beginners, until they get the speed to maintain their position in the water... it seems to me that most beginners end up having to stretch each time to get a breath.

Hi elbow forearm catch and rolling in the water are really advanced techniques... but they do work very well. No point in discussing these with beginners until they are swimming well on their own technique.

+1 for Total Immersion - they're great

When you say a 4-1 or a 6-1 kick, does this mean kicks per arm-stroke? I think I do a 3-1 kick... which seems wierd now that I think about it. It works though. Hmmm... are you a swim coach?

Sorry Davy some of the advice here is suspect at best.

If someone has a good body position then don't have to be moving to breathe.

A hi elbow is the cornerstone of propulsion and is relevant for everyone - that is the whole point of the fisting drill you suggested.

Total Immersion is okay but should be ditched immediately as soon as the person can swim a few hundre metres - then it becomes a limiter and not an enabler.

Yes thats what I mean by 4-1 and 6-1.

No I am not a swim coach

DaveyByrne

I'm interested to see what techniques you recommend if mine aren't very good, and TI's should be discarded after learning to swim a few hundred metres!

tunney

DaveyByrne wrote: »

I'm interested to see what techniques you recommend if mine aren't very good, and TI's should be discarded after learning to swim a few hundred metres!

Carbs blog is not the place for this, if the mods would split it out?

You don't seem to have grasped the importance of body position and I suspect from what you have said your catch is weak too.
Once your body position is good you will be able to breath, you will be able to focus on technique and you will improve.
Also if your body position is solid things like "high elbows" and the roll that comes from a solid push suddenly don't seem advanced but rather very very basic.
I think you need to read some basic swimming books, not TI ones, as I believe you are missing alot of the fundamental understanding.

For me the important things for a beginner are: body position and symmetry.

Carb

Swimming lesson went well yesterday. It seems I am now "good". I imagine this is relatively speaking and that I won't be representing Ireland in 2012 based on my current standard:). I guess what he means is that I'm getting my stroke and kick right. We also started doing the backstroke. That was fun:rolleyes:. I ended up with half the pool up my nose.

Back in the pool this morning for what could be best described as an extremely frustrating session. I guess that if my stroke and kick are about right, I expect at this stage to be able to finish one length, after all my legs and arms have been getting exercised for a couple of weeks in the pool. It wasn't to be. about three quarters way down the pool, I got tired, my breathing went haywire, and I started wondering where the lifeguard was.

So back to the half lengths. I guess I still have breathing inconsistencies, and there is probably a bit of a confidence issue. Apparently in next week's swimming lesson, we'll be venturing into the deep end, so that should help.

Carb

F*ck, I hate the f*cking wind.:mad:

There, that's better. I needed to get that of my chest.

Went for a good run last night (wind issues aside). 8 miles in 71 mins. Thankfully no sign of any aches or pains today.

Back to the gym this morning. I've tweaked my workout to cover the important areas in my opinion as I'll only be going one day now. Still some work to do as I want to do two sets of squats and two on the leg press to catch the hamstrings, rather than four sets of squats. Very few instructers about these days, and even less that want to offer advice. Also need an alternative for my back extension as I couldn't do it this morning again due to the smith machine been used by somebody. Anyway, here's what I got up to.

Thursday 5th November 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 8 60 8 65 8 65 8 70
Lat Pulldown 8 27.5 8 27.5
Dumbell Bench Press 8 14 8 14
Braced Shoulder Press 13 10 13 12
T-Bar Row 10 30 10 35
Back Extension 0 0
Plank 60secs 60secs

dario28

Carb wrote: »

F*ck, I hate the f*cking wind.:mad:

There, that's better. I needed to get that of my chest.

Went for a good run last night (wind issues aside). 8 miles in 71 mins. Thankfully no sign of any aches or pains today.

Back to the gym this morning. I've tweaked my workout to cover the important areas in my opinion as I'll only be going one day now. Still some work to do as I want to do two sets of squats and two on the leg press to catch the hamstrings, rather than four sets of squats. Very few instructers about these days, and even less that want to offer advice. Also need an alternative for my back extension as I couldn't do it this morning again due to the smith machine been used by somebody. Anyway, here's what I got up to.

Thursday 5th November 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 8 60 8 65 8 65 8 70
Lat Pulldown 8 27.5 8 27.5
Dumbell Bench Press 8 14 8 14
Braced Shoulder Press 13 10 13 12
T-Bar Row 10 30 10 35
Back Extension 0 0
Plank 60secs 60secs

I wouldnt be the biggest fan of that work out - you are doing , legs back , chest , shoulders and back all in one work out - You would see much better results really - Break up the body parts in focused sessions
Something like - doing reps of 8 is muscle building so if you want to build muscle ya gotta focus more on each part

Chest/shoulders - Back/Triceps - Legs/Biceps

tunney

dario28 wrote: »

I wouldnt be the biggest fan of that work out - you are doing , legs back , chest , shoulders and back all in one work out - You would see much better results really - Break up the body parts in focused sessions
Something like - doing reps of 8 is muscle building so if you want to build muscle ya gotta focus more on each part

Chest/shoulders - Back-Triceps - Legs-Biceps

The goal of any triathlon weight training session is not to build huge amounts of muscle but rather to get the neuromusclar benefits of weight training and to correct any imbalances that may lead to injury. A different beast to muscle building programmes.

Carb

dario28 wrote: »

I wouldnt be the biggest fan of that work out - you are doing , legs back , chest , shoulders and back all in one work out - You would see much better results really - Break up the body parts in focused sessions
Something like - doing reps of 8 is muscle building so if you want to build muscle ya gotta focus more on each part

Chest/shoulders - Back/Triceps - Legs/Biceps

I think Tunney pretty much covered it. I don't have time any more for a split routine so I'm trying to hit very specific areas/weaknesses. The low reps are to enable me to work up to a weight I'm happier with, after that the number of reps will increase. The reality is, because I'm on the road/bike most evenings, or at least should be, my legs can't really take a complete leg workout anyway.

dario28

Carb wrote: »

I think Tunney pretty much covered it. I don't have time any more for a split routine so I'm trying to hit very specific areas/weaknesses. The low reps are to enable me to work up to a weight I'm happier with, after that the number of reps will increase. The reality is, because I'm on the road/bike most evenings, or at least should be, my legs can't really take a complete leg workout anyway.

low reps build mass ie 6-8
around 10 is generally toning
if you want strength hit the 12's

If you are doing good hill work I dont think you need to worry about legs that much

dario28

tunney wrote: »

The goal of any triathlon weight training session is not to build huge amounts of muscle but rather to get the neuromusclar benefits of weight training and to correct any imbalances that may lead to injury. A different beast to muscle building programmes.

true ya dont want to turn into an immobile bulky beast but cant really see the benefit of doing sets of 8 either - I would think sets of 12 at a faster pace would build strenght and endurance which more suits Tri's

On the other hand I aim to stay at 12 stone with less than 10% body fat and so far sets of 12 are keeing the mass in place while my times are getting faster - I know If i start doing heavy and sets of 8 ill start to slow