Dublin Bus Gate - Let DCC councillors know what you think of it

phaxx

flickerx wrote: »

That meeting is tonight at 6.45, right? Anyone here going?

Yep, I have arranged a pass for myself, thanks to Cllr Cieran Perry. (Who replied to my emails on a Sunday!)

Considering sitting there in my bike helmet.

Chips Lovell

Emailed all four of my local councillors last week. Ominously none have replied yet.

poochiem

phaxx wrote: »

Yep, I have arranged a pass for myself, thanks to Cllr Cieran Perry. (Who replied to my emails on a Sunday!)

Considering sitting there in my bike helmet.

will the public gallery contain a critical mass....

Bunnyhopper

The council just voted on this.

They voted 35 to 11 in favour of suspending the bus gate.

Schrodingercat

Motion also stated that it be automatically reinstated on Jan 15

Still in place in the morning, which is something.


They also agreed to not debate
49. COUNCILLOR GERRY BREEN That the City Council urgently reviews the operation of the Bus Gate and its impact on the business community and employment in the city centre.

kenmc

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

I think this year I'll do my xmas shopping online and in the suburban shopping centres

I always do. Shopping in town, at Christmas? You'd have to be insane.

Bunnyhopper

Lumen wrote: »

So more than half the "retailers" are actually retailers of car parking space.

Turkeys in anti-Christmas protest shocker.

I knew I had this old snap somewhere

Lumen

kenmc wrote: »

I always do. Shopping in town, at Christmas? You'd have to be insane.

Not in my experience. I live about 2km from Blanchardstown Centre, but can't get near the place by car after mid-November due to mental traffic.

The last few years it's honestly been less hassle to drive into town on Sat and Sun mornings than drive the 2km to Blanch.

segadreamcast

el tonto wrote: »

Emailed all four of my local councillors last week. Ominously none have replied yet.

That's a disgrace. Which area do you live in?

Similarly, it's a joke that such a majority voted for it to be suspended over Christmas... they could've, maybe, reduced the operating time in the evening by one hour, but I see no need to go beyond that.

DirkVoodoo

I love internet shopping. We do a family day out every year which is good fun, maintains the christmas feeling but cuts out the long queues, throngs of angry christmas shoppers fighting over the last buzz lightyear and trying to pick between a pair of Home Simpson socks or tie for dad.

Jip

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

The council just voted on this.

They voted 35 to 11 in favour of suspending the bus gate.

The 9 o'clock news said it was just being lifted in the evening, not both morning and evening, and there was mention of free car parking spaces available too.

Schrodingercat

The webcast was actually pretty impressive. Never realised they did it.

Free parking introduced temporarily.

One of the Councillor's (Nial Ring as far as I remember) thanked the businesses and unions for bringing it to their attention that it was affecting business and berated the council for not showing leadership, and would have scrapped it all together.

Most were in favor of the bus gate, and didn't accept the claim that business was being affected, and were voting for the lifting as a compromise (as Andrew Montague said). A couple were very against lifting it.

Dublin city manager said he could only endorse the lifting becasue he knew it would definitely be back in full in January.


Bit crazy lifiting it for the month its most needed (darkest evenings, worst weather).

Bunnyhopper

Schrodingercat wrote: »

One of the Councillor's (Nial Ring as far as I remember) thanked the businesses and unions for bringing it to their attention that it was affecting business and berated the council for not showing leadership, and would have scrapped it all together.

Yeah, I think it was Nial Ring. He was the one most definitely opposed to the whole idea of the bus gate and I think he even said it wrong to have brought it in in the first place.

There was another councillor (can't remember his name) made a wisecrack about how you'd never see someone on a bike buying a widescreen telly - he's obviously never seen a Christiania bike...:)

blorg

I think the fact that it is automatically going back in January with no further vote necessary is key, I can understand why councillors supporting the gate backed this motion as a compromise. You could see it going altogether otherwise.

flickerx

I think now is the time to start gathering evidence of the traffic meltdown the removal of the bus corridor will cause. Because in January when it reopens, the Christmas binge and New Years sales will be finished - so doubtlessly the traders will blame the bus gate then as well for a drop in revenue, when this is part and parcel of the fluctuating consumer spending patterns.

Hmm. I think I am going to email Councillors about that today.

mambo

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

The council just voted on this.

They voted 35 to 11 in favour of suspending the bus gate.

Any link showing who voted for and against?

I presume Dermot Lacey (dermot@dermotlacey.ie) voted for the suspension?

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey last week said he did not want the council to curtail the bus gate in any way. Similar comments were made by Minster for the Environment John Gormley.

“The sheer brass hypocrisy of them . . . My message to Mr Dempsey and Mr Gormley is to mind their own business and let us do our job,” Labour councillor Dermot Lacey said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1103/1224257965174.html

buffalo

mambo wrote: »

Any link showing who voted for and against?

I presume Dermot Lacey (dermot@dermotlacey.ie) voted for the suspension?

While I don't know his position on cycling, I've met Dermot Lacey several times through community activities, and it would surprise and disappoint me greatly if he was for the suspension. My hope would be that his comments were directed more at the 'meddling' of national government in local affairs.

mambo

buffalo wrote: »

While I don't know his position on cycling, I've met Dermot Lacey several times through community activities, and it would surprise and disappoint me greatly if he was for the suspension. My hope would be that his comments were directed more at the 'meddling' of national government in local affairs.

Dermot Lacey voted to suspend the bus gate. Full list of who voted yes and no at http://www.dublincycling.com/node/468

Please bear this list in mind at the time of the next council elections.

tomasrojo

One should bear in mind that some of the councillors voted for this temporary suspension, in the evenings only, for strategic reasons.

Andrew Montague voted for the temporary suspension, and he couldn't be more in favour of the Bus Gate. His reasons are given earlier in this thread.

petethedrummer

I hope the business owners will be publicising the rise in business that should now follow. And the massive increase in employment that will result from this suspension.

tomasrojo

petethedrummer wrote: »

I hope the business owners will be publicising the rise in business that should now follow. And the massive increase in employment that will result from this suspension.

You know it. These people have forensic minds. They seek only the truth.

tomasrojo

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224258660886

The reality of the kind of quality shopping experience of the Grafton Street area is that while the bike and the bus may be great for carrying the vegetables, the gym gear and even the brief case, neither is a mode of transport favoured by many shoppers.

The high-end shopper generally wants the convenience of being able to get from house to shop to home with ease and being able to carry their purchases without undue hassle.

This is pretty much the argument used against pedestrianising Grafton Street back in the day. We all know how that turned Grafton Street into a desert.

Doesn't the "high-end shopper" expect the option of home delivery?

seamus

The fact of the matter is that everyone treats the city centre as a shopping centre. Nobody drives while shopping in the city centre, you park your car and then walk from shop to shop. The bus gate has little or no impact on this whatsoever because you would ordinarily get to the car parks (with the notable exception of fleet street) without using college green.

tomasrojo

I checked out the Design Yard website. They sell jewellery and small items mostly, as far as I can see.

It's also on Nassau Street, which means that cars going along Dame Street can't get to it directly anyway.

lukester

Disappointed with Design Yard, have bought a few gifts there in the past.

I don't get how anyone can equate a bus gate with no-one being able to park near Grafton St anymore.

Haven't these people heard of a map?

tomasrojo

I think that even quite nice people in Irish society think that anyone who doesn't travel by a car is a pauper.

seamus

Design Yard is a shop full of overpriced tat, it's a tourist trap. I was looking for engraved tankards and had a look in there.

I went off and got it done elsewhere for a quarter of the price they were asking.

lukester

I have a car, occasionally will use it to go into town en famille. But I'd still be happy if they banned cars from the city centre.

tomasrojo

seamus wrote: »

Design Yard is a shop full of overpriced tat, it's a tourist trap.

But what's their bling like?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62767007&postcount=75

lukester

seamus wrote: »

Design Yard is a shop full of overpriced tat, it's a tourist trap. I was looking for engraved tankards and had a look in there.

I went off and got it done elsewhere for a quarter of the price they were asking.

In fairness, it's a design house that sells for independent jewellery designers (or used to last time I was there) so it's not the ideal (read cheapest) place to get tankards engraved.

petethedrummer

Sales of widescreen televisions will now go through the roof.

As we all know the rate of ownership of widescreen televisions is the measure of successful society.

monument

Sorry, but this is bizarre! Why can't one carry jewellery on a bicycle or on the bus, Dart, or Luas???

As it happens my other half was pointing out something in their window the other week, I guess Gerry Crosbie and Designyard have just lost future business due to his nonsense letter to The Irish Times.

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

Sorry, but this is bizarre! Why can't one carry jewellery on a bicycle or on the bus, Dart, or Luas???

As it happens my other half was pointing out something in their window the other week, I guess Gerry Crosbie and Designyard have just lost future business due to his nonsense letter to The Irish Times.

Because a "high-end shopper" wouldn't be caught dead on public transport or a bicycle, or walking a few hundred metres to Nassau Street from a car park.

At least, that's the subtext I'm getting.

"high-end shopper" = "upper middle class and above"

Note the "and even the briefcase" in the letter. People with managerial responsibilities cycle. Fancy that! But only a few.

monument

And for those only viewing this thread, I posted this on the commuting and transport thread last night.... Dermot Lacey has posted the following on the Busgate Facebook group.

Dermot Lacey I have only seen this site and thought it fair that I should put the case for the decision we made.I have tried to explain this on other sites as to why we considered it best in the long term to give space to the request from both Traders and the Trade Union Mandate that represents a lot or retail staff.

The role of a Public Representative - particularly in the very pragmatic and practical area of Local Government - is to try and reflect the overall best approach and get on with the job.

In this instance that is what we tried to do. At all time the value of Busgate was adhered to and recognized. At all times too we insisted that the Busgate when reinstated would be a permanent feature of life in Dublin - that continues to be the case and Busgate will be reinstated from January 15th.

When Busgate was brought in BY LABOUR COUNCILLORS we set a trial period of six months to be followed by a review.

During the course of that review an issue was raised by Traders and the Trade Union that the presence of Busgate would seriously impede Christmas trading. Most of us did not accept that view but we were not prepared to risk the Dublin economy and possible job losses to impose our view when we knew we would be reinstaing the Busgate permanently after Christmas. A key factor then would also be the fact that the Macken Street Bridge would be open.

A reasonable point has been made as to whether this temporary suspension will set a precedent for next year. in my view it will not. Two factors that did exist this year will not next year; 1) the relative newness of the scheme and some signage issues and 2) the opening of the new Macken Street Bridge.

At all times we tried to do what we believed to be right in the interests of Dublin and Dubliners.

As anyone who knows me will attest I have no difficulty in arguing my point of view on issues and taking a stand when I believe something to be right irrespective of its popularity or not. The seriosuly disappointing and indeed hurtful aspect to elements of this thread has been that some people seem not to accept the integrity and honesty of our decison making process. I am not asking anyone to agree with is - simply that you accept that we adopted a position honestly and with integrity.

Personally i look forward to January 15th and cyclying either my own bike or a dublinbike through College Green once again.

Busgate is a Labour victory in Dublin that will ove long after this Christmas we should celebrate that fact.

[Posted on Facebook "4 hours ago"] (Edit: This last note is from when I posted the above last night, not now.)

tomasrojo

As I said before, remember that some of the votes were strategic. That's politics.

petethedrummer

tomasrojo wrote: »

"high-end shopper" = "upper middle class and above"

Don't they have a shopping centre all to themselves out in Dundrum? And can they not afford taxis if driving in the city centre is so difficult forthem

Turbulent Bill

seamus wrote: »

Design Yard is a shop full of overpriced tat, it's a tourist trap. I was looking for engraved tankards and had a look in there.

I went off and got it done elsewhere for a quarter of the price they were asking.

The vast majority of their customers seem to come from tour buses parked directly across the road (beside Trinity), the very people who will now be delayed due to the busgate suspension.

Doctor Bob

I saw that Dermot Lacey message last week- a friend sent it to me after he posted it on, I think, politics.ie.

I completely understand the strategic aspect of the vote, and I broadly support the move for those reasons (after some re-consideration), but two things spring to mind-

He points out that Labour brought it in, but there are strong arguments that the introduction of the Bus Gate (I can't bring myself to call it 'Busgate' :rolleyes:) was premature prior to the opening of the Macken Street Bridge- Why were the Labour councillors in such a rush to bring it in? Too hungry for the limelight? Repent at leisure...

and

Personally i look forward to January 15th and cyclying either my own bike or a dublinbike through College Green once again.

Is this a tacit admission that College Green will be well-nigh uncycleable until Jan 15th? Some of us don't have the option of avoiding it. Do we just keep our fingers and toes tightly crossed and hope for the best?

*

As for that confused letter in the Irish Times, whilst I resent the implication that cyclists only spend money in 'coffee shops, burger outlets [and] restaurants/bars' (I resent it, but I'm not really surprised by it), the more pertinent counter-argument to his statement that 'The high-end shopper generally wants the convenience of being able to get from house to shop to home with ease and being able to carry their purchases without undue hassle' would centre on the fact that the bike is much better than the private car at travelling door-to-door.


I presume the city traders are currently gearing up for their High Court challenges to on-line shopping and the free movement of customers across the border to Northern Ireland... :rolleyes:

Convict

Seems strange to me - the Bus Gate, I thought, was meant to operate all day. That didn't happen. It was severely compromised from the start and then the compromise was compromised. That compromise will be reinstated in January and will - according to Councillor Lacey - be intact next Christmas. There's a pup being sold here and is it not ironic that Fianna Fail voted against its abolition - temporary and all as that abolition is?
Do Brown Thomas operate a bike parking facility by any chance?

Bunnyhopper

Convict wrote: »

Do Brown Thomas operate a bike parking facility by any chance?

Maybe, but only if you have one of these (otherwise you're not a high-class shopper, so your Euro is worth less than other people's).

tomasrojo

Can you be a high-end shopper if you arrive on the green-line luas? I assume the bus or the red-line would rule you out.

General Zod

This is 100% the car park operators who are responsible for this. They put the frighteners into BT and their campaign has worked. obviously the few people who want to drive into Drury street and buy Manolo Blanik's and Chanel handbags are more important to Dublin city than the many thousands of people who's transport is improved daily by the bus corridors.

guess what, sales are going to go up this Christmas. and they'd go up regardless of if there was a bus gate or not. And the price we're going to pay is a return to the evening time traffic hassle (and danger), and the added fact of the carnage that free parking in the area will create. remember, Car Parks will actually profit from free parking in the area. Demand will outstrip supply of street parking and people will still park in the car park anyway.

Come January, look for the outcry of "what a success not having the bus gate has been" and pushes to have it removed completely again.


Vote with your feet this christmas. Look at the list of those businesses who supported this and spend your money elsewhere.

blorg

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

They really ruined that bike with the paired spoked wheels. Bad Chanel. Suspension seatpost also completely unnecessary with the springs in the saddle.

cdaly_

General Zod wrote:

Vote with your feet this christmas. Look at the list of those businesses who supported this and spend your money elsewhere.

And then call into them with your purchases and explain why...

Bunnyhopper

The Beckett Bridge at Macken Street will be open to motorists (and presumably to cyclists) from December 11th. So I guess they'll be able to re-implement the busgate early

I note that there's a Facebook group campaigning against the bus gate. It's called "Stop Dublin Bus & the Sneaky City Council Closing down the City Centre!!" and appears to have been founded by Adrienne Ní Mhuirí of Wildcat Ink, which has a tattoo and piercing parlour in the Stephen's Green SC.

Their group has 16 members at present. The pro-busgate group has 1743 members.

So, if you're planning to buy someone a tattoo as a surprise xmas pressie...

Do cyclists count as sightseers? Looking forward to using this bridge.

Doctor Bob

Anyone there for the last of the 'necessary' car-based city centre retail trips? City centre retail trips, five for fifty!

Riders ready, pedals ready...

tomasrojo

I was thinking about the Busgate yesterday. Did sales increase when the Busgate was suspended? Anything in the papers?

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

Did sales increase when the Busgate was suspended?

It would be almost impossible to prove. Sales will increase anyway because of the run up to Christmas.

tomasrojo

Yeah, true. I suppose if sales increased to unprecedented levels the day after suspension and stayed there until reinstatement, after which they plunged again, it might be considered good evidence.