How do you rate Trapattoni?

mike65

Where did your thread go, shamblertine?

Neil3030

shamblertine wrote: »

I voted 3 on the basis he hasn't bothered his hole to become fluent in english.

Then he'd have to fire his translator.

Who he's clearly nailing.

noodler

shamblertine wrote: »

I voted 3 on the basis he hasn't bothered his hole to become fluent in english.

kinaldo wrote: »

You that know he hasn't bothered based on what excatly? Or were you just expecting him to become ''fluent'' overnight?

I thought he would have been alot better after 18 months in the job personally.

I assumed he would have had a basic level to begin with but maybe not.

shamblertine

mike65 wrote: »

Where did your thread go, shamblertine?

not sure what happened it, but I reposted it

shamblertine

kinaldo wrote: »

You know that he hasn't bothered based on what excatly? Or were you just expecting him to become ''fluent'' overnight?

Well considering his job is to communicate with people who speak english, I would have expected him to have become fluent a long time ago.

kinaldo

shamblertine wrote: »

Well considering his job is to communicate with people who speak english, I would have expected him to have become fluent a long time ago.

Well considering he only started learning the language roughly 18 months ago, your expectations of fluency are completely unrealistic, given that it usually takes years to get anywhere near fluency in a foreign language.

All things considered he's doing ok.

Krusader

kinaldo wrote: »

Well considering he only started learning the language roughly 18 months ago, your expectations of fluency are completely unrealistic, given that it usually takes years to get anywhere near fluency in a foreign language.

All things considered he's doing ok.

Des Bishop ?? 1 year

He should of moved to England like Capello has.

Mr Alan

his English aint that bad, saw him interviewed the other day & there was only a couple of prompts from his translator needed.

worth remembering his age, i'd imagine teaching an old dog new tricks takes longer (Mike will probably know?;))

the language thing isnt even nearly an issue for me. silly point.

i'd give him an eight.

i'd have Andy Reid in the squad personally, and we aint in the tournament yet, so i'd bump it up to a 9 if we qualify. overall, brilliant work.

shamblertine

kinaldo wrote: »

Well considering he only started learning the language roughly 18 months ago, your expectations of fluency are completely unrealistic, given that it usually takes years to get anywhere near fluency in a foreign language.

All things considered he's doing ok.

for someone with a lot of time on his hands, and who's job is to speak to people in english, its hardly unrealistic to expect fluency in 18 months

Mr.Nice Guy

Neil3030 wrote: »

Then he'd have to fire his translator.

Who he's clearly nailing.

Ha yes perhaps privately he speaks as eloquently as David Attenborough does, but he has to keep up the act so he can hang on to his translator. :pac:

kinaldo

shamblertine wrote: »

for someone with a lot of time on his hands, and who's job is to speak to people in english, its hardly unrealistic to expect fluency in 18 months

Well unless you really have a natural flair for learning languages, which most people don't, 18 months is unrealistic.

Sure we can only speculate as to how much time and effort he's put in, but even if it was 10 out of 10, I still wouldn't expect him to speak English fluently.

And so what if he doesn't, that's why we have translators, and he also has Liam Brady who speaks Italian (not far off fluent, apparantly) working with him.

Neil3030

kinaldo wrote: »

Well unless you really have a natural flair for learning languages, which most people don't, 18 months is unrealistic.

Sure we can only speculate as to how much time and effort he's put in, but even if it was 10 out of 10, I still wouldn't expect him to speak English fluently.

And so what if he doesn't, that's why we have translators, and he also has Liam Brady who speaks Italian (not far off fluent, apparantly) working with him.

I've often wondered how managers communicate certain things with players through a translator. I mean, imagine a big fiery pre-game pep talk, with each ferociously delivered line being followed up by a calm translator:

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: Come on guys, let's put it to them.

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: We really need you to get "stuck in" as early as possible

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: I am hoping that you all play very very well.

... i dunno.. it'd seem a bit weird.

Pro. F

I gave him a 7.

The talent pool available to him is truly limited at the moment, especially in the middle of the park. The fact that he has gotten us to the playoffs with these players deserves alot of credit.

Points against him, imo are:
1 the exclusion of Andy Reid
2 the fact that he will still play ultra negative football when Steven Reid is back playing for us (i hope he proves me wrong)
3 i feel he is very rigid with his squad selection. I'd like to see him calling on a few more players like Carsley, Fahey and McCann. Maybe he has looked at these players and they don't fit into his plan, it's hard to know but i always have a suspicion that he isn't using some players available to him that he should.

Overall i'm happy to have him in charge.

PS: criticising his English is stupid. You should consider his age, most importantly, and also the fact that some people are slower at learning languages than others.

aidan24326

I give him 7, upped to a 9 if he can get us through the playoffs (where the opposition could be tougher than anything we've faced in the qualifying group, as currently Italy are not a good side by their usual standards).

Trappatoni has taken a bunch of mostly average players, who were in a mess after the Staunton fiasco, and turned them into a well-organised and hard-to-beat team, who are set to go through a 10 game group* unbeaten (not often Ireland have ever done that). Personally I think he deserves great credit.

*Granted it wasn't the toughest group ever, but the job still had to be done, and taking 6 points off a very decent Cyprus team was crucial in the end (Bulgaria only took 1 pt off them and Italy were extremely lucky to beat them in Cyprus).

mewso

I gave him a 7. In his first few games I saw what I considered encouraging signs where the team appeared to be trying to show some composure in moving the ball around. Those glimmers looked like Trap's attempt to get them playing football but now sadly have completely disappeared so my main concern is that he has decided not to bother. I worry he has no faith in the team overall so hes playing percentages and getting away with it.

On Kerr I would agree he was harshly treated but the pro and con Kerr folks seem a bit blinkered to me. On the one hand he didn't have terrible results and it seemed rough to kick him out but on the other it was the most cautious, conservative management I have ever seen. When the team were playing balls into the corners to protect a 1 goal lead in a friendly with 15 minutes to go you had to wonder. Maybe he was put under too much pressure.

On McCarthy I think hes one of the best managers we have ever had simply because he had some balls and tried to play some good football. The whole Keane thing made a lot of people conveniently forget what he did with Ireland. I can still remember the clouds of doom when we got drawn with Holland and Portugal for the World Cup qualifying.

I would agree we haven't had strong teams in recent times but despite this my preference is for a manager who takes some risks to play some good football. It's not necessarily that risky either if you build on a solid team with some creativity in the middle something Trap seems to either not want or not believe we can manage.

Pro. F

Neil3030 wrote: »

I've often wondered how managers communicate certain things with players through a translator. I mean, imagine a big fiery pre-game pep talk, with each ferociously delivered line being followed up by a calm translator:

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: Come on guys, let's put it to them.

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: We really need you to get "stuck in" as early as possible

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: I am hoping that you all play very very well.

... i dunno.. it'd seem a bit weird.

lol that's quite a picture you paint. I was thinking about this before myself. I see that Trap doesn't mind giving it a go in interviews even when he doesn't really have all the vocabulary he needs, just the important bits. I'd say his pre-match motivation is similar, he has the important phrases and concepts then he just riffs the rest with Chippy and the bird translatting the bits that don't make sense when he gets carried away. I'd also guess that Brady does a fair bit of talking in the dressing room.

Another thing, Trap always comes across as a big personalty to me, determined and fired up. I'd say his enthusiasm and hunger for success crosses the language barrier easily.

Limerick Dude

I'll give him an 8.

He has done a good job, I don't think anyone can argue with that. The players are very well organised and they all know what job they have to do on the pitch. We are in the playoffs, which is what nearly everyone would of taken at the beginning of the campaign.

I've steered clear of the whole Andy Reid debate, mainly because I don't really know what to think. I'll drop a point off trap for this matter, not because i think he should be starting but because he has not given him a chance to prove himself or to see what he has to offer in a friendly or B international. Like somebody said previously, it would all be fine if Trap came out with the real reason of Reid's exclusion.

Ill probably talk another point off trap, for similar reasons really, there are many other players out there who deserve a chance to prove themselves. Fahey for example. We have had many friendlies where players such of this are not given a chance, it just seems Trap knows his squad already and that is that.

I wouldnt take any points off him for S.Ireland situation, i don't want to turn this into yet another S.Ireland debate. S.Ireland doesnt want to play for his country, and that is that, I hate the way some of the Irish media and public are blaming Trap for this. Trap should not be expected to go on his hands and knees begging S.Ireland to return, if he doesnt want to play, then so be it.

Well done to Trap, you have gotten a team with a small amount of talent, to play to the best of their abilities, to be very well organised and to work hard. I thinks thats all what we wanted.

Bubs101

Neil3030 wrote: »

I've often wondered how managers communicate certain things with players through a translator. I mean, imagine a big fiery pre-game pep talk, with each ferociously delivered line being followed up by a calm translator:

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: Come on guys, let's put it to them.

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: We really need you to get "stuck in" as early as possible

Manager: RAAA RAAAA RAAAAA RAAAA BLAAAH BLAAAH!!! !!!!

Translator: I am hoping that you all play very very well.

... i dunno.. it'd seem a bit weird.

The calm translator is almost certainly Liam Brady who should carry more than enough respect (considering he carried more than enough talent) with the current players to get the message across. Trap doesn't actually speak English that badly in fairness. He makes a go of it

Johnny Utah

8 - I rate him very highly when you consider he brought us from this:

to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5zTQwA2tMk

I docked him two points as I think he should be including players like McCann, Fahey, Rory Delap, Andy Reid, O'Dea etc in friendlies, or at least having a look at them in tonight's match for example. His squad is too rigid and he needs to have as many options as possible given our limited resources.

Liam O

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I docked him two points as I think he should be including players like McCann, Fahey, Rory Delap, Andy Reid, O'Dea etc in friendlies, or at least having a look at them in tonight's match for example. His squad is too rigid and he needs to have as many options as possible given our limited resources.

Exactly my feelings...

noodler

Neil3030 wrote: »

Then he'd have to fire his translator.

Who he's clearly nailing.

Clearly.




Forgot about Rory Delap.

Johnny Utah

noodler wrote: »

Forgot about Rory Delap.

His long throw-ins could be just what we need.

I can picture it now: a long throw by Delap into the box, flicked on by Folan, and it bounces in off Andy Reid's fat arse!

noodler

Johnny Utah wrote: »

His long throw-ins could be just what we need.

I can picture it now: a long throw by Delap into the box, flicked on by Folan, and it bounces in off Andy Reid's fat arse!

Thats just it! its not fat anymore!

I think Doyle would like the oul long throw ins.

God knows, we find it hard enough to score from open play - may as well maximise our set play opportunities.

LuckyLloyd

Trapp's translator is distinctly nailable (yeah, I know it isn't a real word).

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Trapp's translator is distinctly nailable (yeah, I know it isn't a real word).

I reckon if she wasn't Italian..

premierstone

noodler wrote: »

I reckon if she wasn't Italian..

.....she would be terrible as an italian translator!

I agree, with both of ye actually

me-skywalker

8

He's stubborn, pragmatic, experienced, knowledgable, intelligent, fearsome, a leader, respected, a winner - Sounds like Ferguson there.

Only negative for me is he's ability to influence a match in motion and the whole give Andy Reid another shot.

noodler

premierstone wrote: »

.....she would be terrible as an italian translator!

I agree, with both of ye actually

Oh teh paradoxes!

pickarooney

thomond2006 wrote: »

-Negative style of play. We have blown leads 5 times in the WCQs because we don't push for a second goal to kill off the opposition. We prefer to sit back and absorb pressure. A risky philosophy.

We were a goal up against Italy the other night and kept pressing forward and still conceded the late goal. Damned if you do...

noodler

pickarooney wrote: »

We were a goal up against Italy the other night and kept pressing forward and still conceded the late goal. Damned if you do...

That is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts of this qualifying campaign.

If you don't know why then I dunno what I could say.

[Jackass]

I gave an 8. It's tough to criticise, but just being picky, I sometimes raise an eyebrow at selcetion policy, I think we have a poor pool of players, but he can exclude some of the most talented.

But all in all, he's done an excellent job with the weakest group of players than any of his recent predocessors has had to deal with, if we qualify he will have been the most talented Irish member of all time.

For the record, Charlton was a terrible manager, McCarthy was mediocre, he was given lots of time to learn his trade, but isn't a particularly good manager, Kerr is a very good manager at underage level, but inexperience at the top level showed him up, far too conservative and didn't know how to close out games, Staunton was a disgrace (for the FAI appointing such a poorly qualified man to the top job, not Stans fault he didn't have a clue what he was doing).

Trappatoni is the first manager that is not only a good manager, but actually has top level experience also....just goes to show the difference investing in a decent manger makes, FAI.

DoireNod

Trapattoni's reputation is excellent, no doubt, but I give him a 7 because I think he's only just doing what is necessary. I think we should have beaten Bulgaria and Montenegro twice, especially at home. The draws against Italy are good, but am I the only one who thinks we should have capitalised on the fact that there was a 10 man Italy side and that we really should have held onto the fortunate, but brief, lead we had in Dublin?

Of course, in comparison to Stan, he's a 10, but so far for me, he's been a 7.

Nalz

Dunno if this was posted before, cant reply in detail i'm heading out to get me messages!
http://footballpress.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/trapattoni-there-is-no-league-in-ireland/

Johnny Utah

Well, just one year on from the original thread, and I think it's fair to say that Trap's plan is starting to rapidly derail. We've been found out in recent games as a one-dimensional team with no plan B.

Added to that, Trap is too stubborn to even pick the right personell. For example, why is Trap still persisting with Paul McShane and Paul Green when we have the likes of Rory Delap regularly playing Premiership football.

And whay wasn't Seamus Coleman playing against Russia and Slovakia? He's in great form at the moment, but was obviously overlooked by Trap. No Anthony Stokes either.

Judging by the way Trap picks the squad, I don't think he even watches Match of the Day, nevermind actually attending matches in person. Absolute joke! :mad:


Will Ireland ever get a "world class manager"?