Waterford Bridge open day

gscully

fricatus wrote: »

QFT, but they were putting gscully and his/her kids in danger doing so :mad:

His

fricatus wrote: »

BTW, is anyone else surprised at how quiet the bypass is, and how much traffic is still going along the Quay and in the two dual carriageways leading to Rice Bridge?

I drove across the bridge (Grannagh-Kilmeaden) the other day and there wasn't a sinner around, but then when I got past the Westlink exit, there were plenty of cars all of a sudden. It seems that people have cottoned on to the bit that's free, and they're all using it, but avoiding the tolled section.

I knew that was going to happen, but I'm surprised at the extent.

I'm not at all surprised. I know the bypass is part of the N25 Rosslare to Cork route, but I think it's fair to say we all associate it with the new road to Dublin. To toll this road now, while the M9 is unfinished was a stupid decision. Who wants to pay money to cross that bridge when all it does is put you on the crap road to Mullinavat? When all the route is complete the toll will be worth it. Anyone coming from the Cork direction, with any local knowledge at all, can use the 'motorway' as far as the Carriganore junction, then take the Gracedieu Rd, Billberry and Rice Bridge. All the while avoiding the city, but not paying a toll.

Also, I came back in the old N25 last night and from The Sweep to the ORR, there was far more traffic than on the new road. Unfortunately, the car in front of me insisted on doing 60 in a 100 zone. I thought about overtaking, but realised that it might be a little dangerous. I thought it funny how there was a lovely new road running parallel to this one, with two lanes and dual-carriageway, yet the speed limit was the same! Ridiculous. Perhaps the old N25 should be redesignated to 80km/h to encourage drivers to use the new road?

Cabaal

gscully wrote: »

His



I'm not at all surprised. I know the bypass is part of the N25 Rosslare to Cork route, but I think it's fair to say we all associate it with the new road to Dublin. To toll this road now, while the M9 is unfinished was a stupid decision. Who wants to pay money to cross that bridge when all it does is put you on the crap road to Mullinavat? When all the route is complete the toll will be worth it. Anyone coming from the Cork direction, with any local knowledge at all, can use the 'motorway' as far as the Carriganore junction, then take the Gracedieu Rd, Billberry and Rice Bridge. All the while avoiding the city, but not paying a toll.

Agreed, very stupid decision....its not worth the toll in everyone's eyes.

Another thing they will have to do is BAN all 3 axel trucks from entering the city during certain hours unless they are delivering in the city, the amount of trucks not taking the new road is a joke.

Of course this may change when the whole road is done....

Also, I came back in the old N25 last night and from The Sweep to the ORR, there was far more traffic than on the new road. Unfortunately, the car in front of me insisted on doing 60 in a 100 zone. I thought about overtaking, but realised that it might be a little dangerous. I thought it funny how there was a lovely new road running parallel to this one, with two lanes and dual-carriageway, yet the speed limit was the same! Ridiculous. Perhaps the old N25 should be redesignated to 80km/h to encourage drivers to use the new road?

Give it time I imagine it will be

Mossy Monk

gscully wrote: »

Unfortunately, the car in front of me insisted on doing 60 in a 100 zone. I thought about overtaking, but realised that it might be a little dangerous.

No better advert for the new road than this. Some old dear in a Micra (it nearly always is one from my personal experiences) crawling along and it is too dangerous to overtake them. I have not had a single issue on the new road yet and I am getting home 5 - 10 minutes earlier every day.

fricatus

Green Hornet wrote: »

I can see the bypass from my house and it actually looks busy enough most evenings. Pretty steady stream of traffic.

What section are you looking out on, GH?

Green Hornet

fricatus wrote: »

What section are you looking out on, GH?

Looking out from Bowefield, Gracedieu. I guess the part I can see is the Kilkenny side of the bridge to the Newrath area.

fricatus

Green Hornet wrote: »

Looking out from Bowefield, Gracedieu. I guess the part I can see is the Kilkenny side of the bridge to the Newrath area.

Unless you're looking at the bridge itself, the toll plaza and the section immediately south of it (Waterford side), you're not looking at the tolled section there.

Given your location, I would guess that the road you're looking at is the section of dual carriageway from behind Autoboland, out over the Grannagh interchange and then out to the Quarry roundabout (near Grannagh Castle). That's basically the road to Carrick, Clonmel and Limerick (until it starts also handling Dublin traffic), so I would expect normal traffic on it, given that it's free.

wellbutty

Ok the new bypass is open 1 week today. It's obvious to me anyway that some traffic surveys need to be done in order to maximise the bypass and outer ring road.

Survey 1, to be asked of people that choose to go through Kilmeaden instead of the bypass when approaching from Cork:
Did you choose this route because:
1) You think it's shorter?
2) You think it's quicker?
3) You think you must pay a toll immediately after getting onto the bypass?
4) Your destination is this way? (i.e. Kilmeaden, Kill, Tramore etc)
5) You're fearful of multi-lane roads

Survey 2, to be asked of people exiting the bypass via the western link (from the south side) instead of going to the new bridge:
Did you exit the bypass because:
1) You're going someplace south of the river?
2) You're going someplace north of the river and want to avoid the toll?
3) You think the new bridge is of no benefit to you until the M9 opens

Survey 3, to be asked of people using the Bilberry Road, in both directions:
Considering your departure point and destination, could you have used the new bridge. If so:
Did you choose to avoid it and take the Bilberry Road because:
1) You think it's shorter?
2) You think it's quicker?
3) You want to avoid the toll?
4) You're fearful of multi-lane roads

In any case, some things are becoming clear:
1) The Bilberry road has become a free shortcut
2) Large non-citybound trucks must be banished to the bypass
3) The Kilmeaden route needs to be a deterant
4) Heavy traffic delays on the Old Kilmeaden Road, trying to get onto the Western Link Road

Bards

the N25 WCB was always going to be tolled irrespective of whether or not the M9 to Dublin went ahead. It was due to be completed in 2005 but was held up due to Woodstown and planning objections

Again, it is a bypass for long Distance Cork - Rosslare traffic and not intended for local traffic

fricatus

A survey would be a good idea, but until it's carried out, all we have is speculation...

wellbutty wrote: »

In any case, some things are becoming clear:
1) The Bilberry road has become a free shortcut...

I'm loathe to force people to pay a toll, but it's clear that they're using that road in order to avoid having to pay. I remember hearing about some traffic reduction initiatives being planned for once the bridge opened. Anyone know anything about those?

wellbutty wrote: »

...
2) Large non-citybound trucks must be banished to the bypass...

I know €6.40 or whatever is quite a lot, but I would have thought that hauliers would have liked the idea of saving 15-20 minutes on a route and saving a corresponding amount on diesel.

wellbutty wrote: »

...3) The Kilmeaden route needs to be a deterant...

How do you mean? Other than dropping the speed limit to 80 km/h (which I assume hs been done), what measures could be put in place?

wellbutty wrote: »

...4) Heavy traffic delays on the Old Kilmeaden Road, trying to get onto the Western Link Road

Is that in the evening, on the Old Kilmeaden Road outbound?

fricatus

Bards wrote: »

Again, it is a bypass for long Distance Cork - Rosslare traffic and not intended for local traffic

If it was not intended for local traffic, why is there a Western Link exit at all? One of the stated aims of the project was to provide access to industrial areas in the southwest of the city.

Yes, the bypass does a great job of handling Cork-Rosslare traffic, but you don't build a bridge like that so that it can handle a few trucks coming in on the tide.

The new bridge is the perfect route for anyone living in South KK or in the New Ross area and who works on the west side of Waterford, and we all know that there are plenty of people in that category.

If such people are not using it, you have to ask the question: why not? Until someone does a proper survey, the obvious conclusion that one has to jump to is that they're avoiding paying the toll. Then the question is: why should the city continue to suffer from severe congestion while a shiny new piece of infrastructure sits underused up river?

road_high

I'd say it comes down to money; Irish people going to work/college would/do baulk at having to spend €3.90/day simply for using a road! That's €19.50/week which in today's climate is significant for very many indeed.
The multi-trip discount needs to be far higher imo. 10% off is not enough. I think Law of Diminishing Returns certainly applies here; the cheaper the price, the more will use it and thus the revenue higher for the toll operator.

Cabaal

mfitzy wrote: »

I'd say it comes down to money; Irish people going to work/college would/do baulk at having to spend €3.90/day simply for using a road! That's €19.50/week which in today's climate is significant for very many indeed.
The multi-trip discount needs to be far higher imo. 10% off is not enough. I think Law of Diminishing Returns certainly applies here; the cheaper the price, the more will use it and thus the revenue higher for the toll operator.

When the whole road is finished, I'll be honest the toll is the whole reason why I won't be using it.

Costs me enough each week doing over 400 miles without adding a toll on top of things,

alpha2zulu

fricatus wrote: »

The new bridge is the perfect route for anyone living in South KK or in the New Ross area and who works on the west side of Waterford, and we all know that there are plenty of people in that category.

If such people are not using it, you have to ask the question: why not? Until someone does a proper survey, the obvious conclusion that one has to jump to is that they're avoiding paying the toll.

Yep I'm of those those commuters and for me its that the toll is just to high, the only occasion I'd use the new bridge is if I was heading to Cork Airport or Cork city,

To be honest in my position even if the toll was 1euro i'd use it only in the mornings and still go the old route in the evenings. I tried the new bridge on day 2 and the traffic approaching the roundabout at the Ramada Hotel/B&Q reduces the time saving to maybe 10min max in the evening peak.

Bards

Cabaal wrote: »

When the whole road is finished, I'll be honest the toll is the whole reason why I won't be using it.

... But the Whole Road is finished I.E TheWaterford City Bypass

can we please get the notion that the M9 is part of the bypass out of our heads, it is NOT, never was and never will be part of the N25 Waterford City Bypass which was built as a PPP albeit around 4 years later than planned - hence the co-incidenece that the two projects were nearing completion at the same time.

This conversation would not be taking place if the original timescales were adhered to

kilkennycat2004

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Yep I'm of those those commuters and for me its that the toll is just to high,
To be honest in my position even if the toll was 1euro i'd use it only in the mornings and still go the old route in the evenings.

One Euro is the most I personally will pay to use it & having spoken to several people that is indeed a common view.

£1-90 is way too dear for this area.

calerbass

Talking about cycling routes, the other day when i came on the new roundabout up from the cosy thatch and started on the new stretch of road into wateford and on to the toll bridge, i noticed that on the big road sign on the left at the end they had no pedal cyclists or animals, couldnt believe what i was seeing.Realising their is no law to stop cyclists going on a dual carriageway, i surmised that the sign was really meant for after the last turnoff being the butlerstown roundabout so as to tell cyclists they are not allowed across the bridge, i duly rang the local NRA office on the tramore road who then referred me to the by pass site office, there i was told i was correct and that it has caused problems for the contractors,but legislation is being passed/bylaw to prevent cyclists crossing the bridge. I pointed out that that road is much safer now then travelling the kilmeaden route, where i pointed out was a deathtrap for cyclists since they redone kilmeaden, no cycling lane / hard shoulder and big high kerbs either side, and no hard shoulder from the sweep up to tramore cross. Only when it suits the county council are they supportive of cycling

Oh and the NRA saifd that the sign is being taken down

Sully

I'm going to merge this with the topic on the bridge already (the city one)/

Stokolan

calerbass wrote: »

Oh and the NRA saifd that the sign is being taken down

So does that mean we'll be able to cycle the sections of road up to either round about for the bridge?

calerbass

ya you ll have to take the last roundabout off the road before you get to the bridge because you wont be left across, same applies for the kk side

ex_infantry man

i work out of our companies depot in dunkitt and before the bridge was built it would have took me up to an hour to travel from work to home in tramore and now because i use the new bridge i get home in over twenty mins i think the 1,90 is well worth it and comparing to the m50 toll we,re gettin value for money coz up there you pay 3,00 to sit in traffic for over twenty mins before you hit the m1 intersection

mikeym

I love the new road and I never crossed the bridge, its so much faster and its a dual carriageway which means your not stuck behind a sunday driver.

Stokolan

I said id test it for time from my house (by the waterford golf course) each way this week.

Monday left the house at 3:15 and clocked in at 3:27 via the by pass.
Today Left teh house at 3:15 and clocked in at 3:30 via normal route.

If this is all it saves for me im not sure its worth the 1.90 even if it was more relaxing going the bypass. I wish they made it free

merlante

Stokolan wrote: »

I said id test it for time from my house (by the waterford golf course) each way this week.

Monday left the house at 3:15 and clocked in at 3:27 via the by pass.
Today Left teh house at 3:15 and clocked in at 3:30 via normal route.

If this is all it saves for me im not sure its worth the 1.90 even if it was more relaxing going the bypass. I wish they made it free

It would be good to do it for every day of the week and to get an average, then we'd know what the savings are. Last week the traffic was very quiet, probably down to some sort of school break, but sometimes even getting off the quay can take 5 minutes.

jimbojazz

Slightly off topic but has anyone driven around the town the last 2 days - traffic as bad as ever. Was down by Manor Street today around 3pm and 3 artics back to back heading out Cork Road (dont think they were heading for the estate either)as well as a fair tail back of cars both ways. It was the same around 5pm yesterday - thought this was going to be a thing of past with the bypass and the outer ring road. Also a fair few of the artics seem to be coming over Rice Bridge and heading out Bilberry to go to the estate or onto Cork Road

Cabaal

I'm noticing very few trucks on the bypass,

gscully

jimbojazz wrote: »

Slightly off topic but has anyone driven around the town the last 2 days - traffic as bad as ever. Was down by Manor Street today around 3pm and 3 artics back to back heading out Cork Road (dont think they were heading for the estate either)as well as a fair tail back of cars both ways. It was the same around 5pm yesterday - thought this was going to be a thing of past with the bypass and the outer ring road. Also a fair few of the artics seem to be coming over Rice Bridge and heading out Bilberry to go to the estate or onto Cork Road

They need to make some decisions to force unwanted traffic out to the new bridge. Maybe build a max-height to stop trucks crossing the bridge?

mike65

Speaking of which, scroll to the bottom of page

JohnC.

gscully wrote: »

They need to make some decisions to force unwanted traffic out to the new bridge. Maybe build a max-height to stop trucks crossing the bridge?

Thing is, trucks do need to get into the city too, do make deliveries to businesses. Not everything can bypass the city. Even if they are going the Cork direction, there may be a stop in the city too.

gscully

Kahless wrote: »

Thing is, trucks do need to get into the city too, do make deliveries to businesses. Not everything can bypass the city. Even if they are going the Cork direction, there may be a stop in the city too.

Of course, but now that there is a second river crossing, they can use that to access any part of the city. I know it wouldn't be ideal for them to drive the extra distance and pay a toll, but if the new bridge is to serve its purpose and remove traffic from the city, then something like this has to be done.

Bards

gscully wrote: »

Of course, but now that there is a second river crossing, they can use that to access any part of the city. I know it wouldn't be ideal for them to drive the extra distance and pay a toll, but if the new bridge is to serve its purpose and remove traffic from the city, then something like this has to be done.

SO a truck coming from Rosslare with a delivery in the city centre, Argos for example, you would make them use the new bridge to go miles out of their way and force them back in to the City Cente by what route?

Not practible. they would be better off using the existing Rice Bridge as it is closer to their final destination.