Irish friendliness

Yorky

Has anyone ever read this article? Objective appraisals please..


http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/why-the-cad-miacutele-filte--isnt-always-what-it-seems-285632.html

Shield

What's YOUR objective appraisal? This IS Philosophy you know! I'm going to ask you to read the charter because I'm not sure if you 'get' how this forum works and what it's for.

Thanks.

Yorky

I don't think that's a very friendly welcome to the forum - abit of an irony really.

In answer to your question, I concur.

Shield

Well you have posted here before, so I don't think a welcome is necessary every time you post.

I'm trying to ensure you get the best possible replies. It helps if you not only state your opinion, but also why you have arrived at the opinion you have. That's where we have a point of discussion. Asking us to appraise a newspaper article (from a philosophical point of view) without stating your position and thoughts won't really generate insightful philosophical discussion.

the_syco

I disagree. The author is confused with "being friendly" and "wanting to be your friend". Two totally different things. Every single point she talks about were people being friendly, and she then thinks it's odd that they don't become friends. She blames them, and not herself. She doesn't think that maybe they don't like her, and thus why they don't become her friend.

Yorky

But why wouldn't they like her? She seems well balanced and friendly from the tone of the article. It a catch 22 - you can't make friends without being given a chance and it's difficult getting that 'chance' in Ireland.

scanlas

I'm convinced this is another symptom of the general insecurity and lack of confidence of Irish people.

It's like the insecure guy who is overly nice and polite to attractive women. It's not coming from a place of authenticity but approval seeking because there is a void of self worth.

You also notice Irish people rarely tell the waiter that they didn't like the food when asked, but they'll complain about it to their friends, another symptom of insecurity.

The drink culture is fairly obviously a symptom of insecurity, Irish people don't feel comfortable in their own skin on average compared to other nations.

The general way Irish people complain pointlessly is a symptom of insecurity. Confident happy people just tend not to complain very much.

The most blatently obvious sign of insecurity in Irish people to me is the general over politeness of people when sober in contrast the high levels of violence and hostility when drunk. Confident secure people generally don't change a lot in contrast when drunk.

philologos

scanlas wrote: »

The drink culture is fairly obviously a symptom of insecurity, Irish people don't feel comfortable in their own skin on average compared to other nations.

What scale are you using? I mean claiming something is one thing, but sometimes sources are required.

scanlas wrote: »

The general way Irish people complain pointlessly is a symptom of insecurity. Confident happy people just tend not to complain very much.

One is left to wonder where your generalities are coming from.

scanlas wrote: »

The most blatently obvious sign of insecurity in Irish people to me is the general over politeness of people when sober in contrast the high levels of violence and hostility when drunk. Confident secure people generally don't change a lot in contrast when drunk.

In most experiences I haven't seen people get violent when drunk. It's a possibility always in every society, but I don't see why you think it is more a problem in Ireland than in other places.

However, behaviour eventually changes dependant on drunkenness, I would have thought that was relatively observable.

nyarlothothep

A lot of what she's saying is true but it doesn't apply to all Irish people. It describes the people who buy into the stereotypical culture of Irishness.

It would akin to all american people, USA! type people or whatever stereotype cultures exist in other countries.

Diveonthe12th

scanlas wrote: »

I'm convinced this is another symptom of the general insecurity and lack of confidence of Irish people.

It's like the insecure guy who is overly nice and polite to attractive women. It's not coming from a place of authenticity but approval seeking because there is a void of self worth.

You also notice Irish people rarely tell the waiter that they didn't like the food when asked, but they'll complain about it to their friends, another symptom of insecurity.

The drink culture is fairly obviously a symptom of insecurity, Irish people don't feel comfortable in their own skin on average compared to other nations.

The general way Irish people complain pointlessly is a symptom of insecurity. Confident happy people just tend not to complain very much.

The most blatently obvious sign of insecurity in Irish people to me is the general over politeness of people when sober in contrast the high levels of violence and hostility when drunk. Confident secure people generally don't change a lot in contrast when drunk.

Amen to everything you wrote.

I will add that to me, most irish folks are no more than risibly superstitious pig farmers disguised in Louis Vuitton.

Xluna

scanlas wrote: »

I'm convinced this is another symptom of the general insecurity and lack of confidence of Irish people.

It's like the insecure guy who is overly nice and polite to attractive women. It's not coming from a place of authenticity but approval seeking because there is a void of self worth.

You also notice Irish people rarely tell the waiter that they didn't like the food when asked, but they'll complain about it to their friends, another symptom of insecurity.

The drink culture is fairly obviously a symptom of insecurity, Irish people don't feel comfortable in their own skin on average compared to other nations.

The general way Irish people complain pointlessly is a symptom of insecurity. Confident happy people just tend not to complain very much.

The most blatently obvious sign of insecurity in Irish people to me is the general over politeness of people when sober in contrast the high levels of violence and hostility when drunk. Confident secure people generally don't change a lot in contrast when drunk.

Interesting post,especially how you compare the national conscious to the so called nice guy. "Nice guys" blame the jocks for being losers,the Irish blame da Britz when things go wrong. Do you think this is due to a post colonial mentality?

scanlas

To those who are asking where are my sources etc....

I don't have any, what I wrote was based on experience and what I've seen. Of course I could be wrong, however I feel confident in what I wrote.

scanlas

Xluna wrote: »

Interesting post,especially how you compare the national conscious to the so called nice guy. "Nice guys" blame the jocks for being losers,the Irish blame da Britz when things go wrong. Do you think this is due to a post colonial mentality?

I doubt very much it has anything to do with post colonial mentality. It's a hard one to figure out. It might have something to do with the way Irish people tend to get "nannied" from a young age through adolesence.

rinty

This has been said to me by so many people in the last 5 years that i have come to accept it.Their is something about us Irish and this social shell we put around ourselves..For years i said it was not true but then it was brought up again and again by poles czechs american new zelander. I hear the irish in San Fran even live in the foggy part of the city,,a woman told me this was metaphorical to how the Irish like to distance themselves from close relation with outsiders. I agree that it only relates to the irish who follow the safe stage Irish mantality,the cut hoare mentality.. the gombeen man..say nothin till yea here more.

rinty

This has been said to me by so many people in the last 5 years that i have come to accept it.There is something about us Irish and this social shell we put around ourselves..For years i said it was not true but then it was brought up again and again and again by poles czechs american new zelander.Finally i stopped reacting negatively and listened.I hear the irish in San Fran even live in the foggy part of the city,,a woman told me this was metaphorical for how the Irish like to distance themselves from close relation with outsiders. I agree that it only relates to the irish who follow the safe stage Irish mantality,the cut hoare mentality.. the gombeen man..say nothin till yea here more.
But why...... we do this has been puzzling me for some time, and im glad it is on discussion.

rinty

Sometimes i think its about people weighing up each other and a deep level paranoia. In the past the priest was a cop,read liam o Flaherty,Kavanagh etc the people were under a sort of theological orwellian social controll mechanism.an old irish saying states that we should be aware of the wife who talks over the hedge (gossip) gossips was a form of snitching,gathering info for the parasire priest,all this saved face. People would pretend to be friendly but in fact were agents for father O mafia.Eventually the game became normality.
The Irish are also a Tribal (celtic)people for much longer thAN most of europe,
also the weather is **** and Penal times etc may have been a cataylist,,Stories about the famine show that irish for reasons of survival acted like chameleons.

rinty

rinty wrote: »

Sometimes i think its about people weighing up each other and a deep level paranoia. In the past the priest was a cop,read liam o Flaherty,Kavanagh etc the people were under a sort of theological orwellian social controll mechanism.an old irish saying states that we should be aware of the wife who talks over the hedge (gossip) gossips was a form of snitching,gathering info for the parasire priest,all this saved face. People would pretend to be friendly but in fact were agents for father O mafia.Eventually the game became normality.
The Irish are also a Tribal (celtic)people for much longer thAN most of europe,
also the weather is **** and Penal times etc may have been a cataylist,,Stories about the famine show that irish for reasons of survival acted like chameleons.

just guessing though

Dr_Phil

That article seems to be a lot of bolix to me.

First of all - the author does something I don't really like: Makes "Them". Irish are unfriendly. Black guys are lazy. Poles are hard workers. Germans are nazis. Russians are communists. It's all crap.

As a foreigner I can say I have at least 2 real Irish friends I can talk with about everything. We are honest, we talk about nice things as well as about problems and issues we can't deal with on our own. We trust each other, we respect each other.

In this light my opinion is that judging the entire society/nation simply does not work.

"YOU ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!!!" - Life of Brian

5 and 7

scanlas wrote: »

I'm convinced this is another symptom of the general insecurity and lack of confidence of Irish people.

It's like the insecure guy who is overly nice and polite to attractive women. It's not coming from a place of authenticity but approval seeking because there is a void of self worth.

You also notice Irish people rarely tell the waiter that they didn't like the food when asked, but they'll complain about it to their friends, another symptom of insecurity.

The drink culture is fairly obviously a symptom of insecurity, Irish people don't feel comfortable in their own skin on average compared to other nations.

The general way Irish people complain pointlessly is a symptom of insecurity. Confident happy people just tend not to complain very much.

The most blatently obvious sign of insecurity in Irish people to me is the general over politeness of people when sober in contrast the high levels of violence and hostility when drunk. Confident secure people generally don't change a lot in contrast when drunk.

Interesting post.

That article does make me think. The British and the Irish are noted for being more rowdy when drunk, and I think that we're generally not as personally open. In many parts of Europe (and probably other parts of the world) it's commonplace for friends to kiss each other on the cheek when they meet; if you tried that on an Irish or British street you'd be stared at.

Gary L

Jakkass wrote: »

What scale are you using?

I mean claiming something is one thing, but sometimes sources are required.

One is left to wonder where your generalities are coming from.
.

Why are you talking like that? Using eloquence to communicate better is fine, but your talking like an idiot. Everything he talked about is clearly something that you can decide on just by applying it to the people in your life and seeing if it fits.

For me it does. That really puts Irish culture in perspective. Great read.