Another call for a "North Atlantic" league

mike65

Remember this notion from 10 years ago?

Well its back http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/14/north-atlantic-league-celtic-rangers

The possibility of the Old Firm being invited to join a North Atlantic League could be resurrected after the president of the Dutch Football Association revealed he plans to lobby Uefa on the issue.

The idea for Celtic and Rangers to compete against clubs from Holland, Belgium, Portugal and Scandinavia was first mooted at the end of the 1990s but never took off.

The Dutch FA head Michael van Praag – a leading member of Uefa's executive committee – believes that while the timing was flawed, the concept was not.

He said: "There was no way we could push that through because Uefa at that time were conservative and full of fear. Now I am part of Uefa myself and, for this course, I can begin the lobby. It makes sense to start the lobbying now."

Could/should Ireland try to get a team in this league should it ever actually happen?

_blank_

No.

stovelid

mike65 wrote: »

The idea for Celtic and Rangers to compete against clubs from Holland, Belgium, Portugal and Scandinavia

mike65 wrote: »

Could/should Ireland try to get a team in this league should it ever actually happen?

Irish team there already...

mike65

:pac:

Pisco Sour

stovelid wrote: »

Irish team there already...

Celtic are a club based in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

They are about as Irish as the Boston Celtics NBA Club.

Frisbee

To be honest I'd be against a North Atlantic League myself aswell. It doesn't make any sense to have one unless you have a South Atlantic, Eastern Mediterranean etc. also...

Pisco Sour

Frisbee wrote: »

To be honest I'd be against a North Atlantic League myself aswell. It doesn't make any sense to have one unless you have a South Atlantic, Eastern Mediterranean, Southern Atlantic League etc. also...

To be honest the idea is similar to the Magners League in rugby which is working out pretty well. The individual Irish, Welsh and Scottish leagues could never have competed with the Guinness Premiership and Top 14, but by having all the talent in the one cross border league it has done wonders for the 3 countries at regional and international level.

Bit harder to implement in football though i'll admit.

hblock21

Frisbee wrote: »

To be honest I'd be against a North Atlantic League myself aswell. It doesn't make any sense to have one unless you have a South Atlantic, Eastern Mediterranean etc. also...

And you'll never get a South Atlantic, Eastern Mediterranean league if you don't start somewhere.

I think it was a great idea, hope it gets approval sometime in the near future.

MementoMori

Is this not what the Lisbon treaty was really all about?

Seriously I really can't see there being enough of a demand for this and I could see the actual practicalities being massively awkward.

What would happen these teams regarding "traditional" European competitions like the Champions League and the Europa Cup?

Just too many problems.

Also if it did actually come into effect, I can't see there being much of a demand for it from LOI fans and could see it only damaging football in Ireland in the longer-term.

Neil3030

Hmmm.... I actually don't think it's that terrible an idea.

The trick would be to ensure teams can be relegated out of and promoted into the league annually, to ensure a all teams from the top domestic tiers of participating nations get a crack at the whip.

The way I see it, if you comprise a 20 team league initially, say made up something like:

Scotland (2)
Holland (4)
Belgium (3)
Portugal (4)
Scandinavia (5)
Ireland (2) (:pac:)

And each year the bottom 3 get relegated back to the top tier of their domestic league.

Teams could qualify through a playoff each year; i.e., top placed teams from each participating nation go into a hat for a round robin for the 3 spots in the North Atlantic league.

In the interest of fairness, they could also add a revenue sharing stipulation, somewhat like they have in the NFL - say all teams who take part in the North Atlantic League must distribute 30-40% of their revenues across the teams in their domestic league each year...

Just some ideas that spring to mind..

Zebra3

Only if the Faroes have a team in it..... :cool:

leninbenjamin

the league itself would be a great success no doubt for the participating clubs.

But there's far too many questions:

The issue is how to resolve it with the existing national leagues (which leagues do clubs get promoted from? is there a cap to ensure the nationalities in the league are equal? is their a series of playoffs?)

Also how to limit the damage to those left out (should the revenues be divided up among the member associations? should clubs not in the league get a slice to ensure they aren't left behind?)

among plenty others...

Neil3030

I agree, this could actually be very successful.

Obviously from Celtic and Rangers' perspective, there is no financial incentive to participate in terms of attendence - they already get full houses.

But the TV revenue could be astronomical. The direct market (i.e., portugal, belgium, netherlands, ireland, denmark, scotland, norway, finland, sweden) has a population of 75m or so, and there would definitely be appeal from the rest of Europe and worldwide in games like: Ajax V Porto; Celtic V Standard Liege; PSV V Sporting each week.

However, as leninbenjamin said there are a lot of logistical and structural issues to iron out, like promotional/relegation protocols, national caps/weighting and revenue reparation to the also-rans in the domestic leagues.

Also, I really can't see UEFA sanctioning this, as it would no doubt lead to very hasty subsequent calls for a "Top Euro League", Man United, Barca, Juventus etc., which they appear to be very against.

Limerick Dude

mike65 wrote: »

Remember this notion from 10 years ago?

Well its back http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/14/north-atlantic-league-celtic-rangers



Could/should Ireland try to get a team in this league should it ever actually happen?

Not a bad idea in theory but its just not realistic, there is not enough time on the football calender for it, from domestic league games, cup games, and european commitments (CL and Europa). Unless this means the teams in question have to scrap their commitments to one of the above.

Neil3030

Limerick Dude wrote: »

Not a bad idea in theory but its just not realistic, there is not enough time on the football calender for it, from domestic league games, cup games, and european commitments (CL and Europa). Unless this means the teams in question have to scrap their commitments to one of the above.

Well yeah, I'd presume it'd replace domestic league participation.

Limerick Dude

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well yeah, I'd presume it'd replace domestic league participation.

Well i cant see that happening, considering there would be so much pride and history in the respective teams domestic competitions, well....maybe you could argue a case for the LOI...... sorry :pac:

_blank_

What isn't being spoken about in here is the inconvenience for the matchgoing fans, travel to away games would be an absolute nightmare and cost a fortune.

No.

Neil3030

Des wrote: »

What isn't being spoken about in here is the inconvenience for the matchgoing fans, travel to away games would be an absolute nightmare and cost a fortune.

No.

Very true.

chopperbyrne

The teams who compete in it would most likely lose their European spots, so Celtic and Rangers would never go for it as they're sitting pretty on European qualification ever year.

GLaDOS

No teams bread and butter league should be outside its native country

Pisco Sour

To be honest in some ways this idea would make sense. By having a league with the best teams from Scotland, Holland, Portugal, etc the overall standard of the league would be very high, which would only encourage more of the world's best players to join these teams, rather than always join english and spannish clubs. This would go some way to creating a balance in european football and stop english teams dominating.

Cant see it ever happen though and there are simply too many problems around an idea such as this.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

stovelid

The idea of a league where the lion's share of your away games are played in another country would only suit, er, people who are adjectively synonymous with publlic-house furnishing.

What would happen to the rest of the clubs in a national league when the top clubs leave?

I've not really thought this through logistically, but I wouldn't actually mind some kind of annual international club competition for smaller clubs, where the odds were less stacked toward the big boys, and that attracted wider interest, but I'm not sure filleting the national leagues is an answer.

GLaDOS

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It should

Korat

Seeing the latest update on the paltry state of finances at the FAI and wondering how it could ever tap into the huge amounts of money in the game generally reminded me of this.

I think a North Atlantic league could work and make a lot more money for countries which are currently just feeding the big leagues to little benefit for themselves.

My idea would be something similar to the Pro-12 in rugby where the top sides in each country would compete in this league and European places would be allocated on the basis of either where they finish in the league or how they performed in relation to other teams from that country.

The weakest team in the league from each country could have a play-off against the champion in their domestic league to keep their place for the next season.

Lovely Bloke

no comment on the match going fans?

eagle eye

We could have three, maybe four, Irish teams. Leinster, Munster, Connacht/Ulster and possibly a Dublin team?

I think it would change the game for the better in this country for sure.

SEANoftheDEAD

Nah,

I'm still dead set against this idea.

Football clubs should be about community and providing regular games with in it. Which is why countries like Holland and Portugal are happy enough to keep doing what they are doing.

At this point, no other leagues are gonna compete with the PL, Madrid, Barca and Bayern for TV money etc. These clubs have become "brands" and sponsors will want to continue to work with them.
Celtic winning the North Atlantic League three times in a row isn't gonna attract any bigger sponsor than they already have.

The transport costs each season alone would bankrupt a LOI club.

Football on TV is reaching a serious saturation point as it is, having another televised European league isn't gonna add anything to that, nor will it compete with what is already there.

For clubs who can't compete with the super clubs and are worried about being left behind... UEFA should revive the Cup Winners' Cup or something like it that allows these clubs a chance to compete for European honors. Allow the winners of that competition to compete in the Europa/Champions League the following season so they can cash in on the TV money.

Lovely Bloke

eagle eye wrote: »

We could have three, maybe four, Irish teams. Leinster, Munster, Connacht/Ulster and possibly a Dublin team?

I think it would change the game for the better in this country for sure.

Who would support those teams?

Not the current LoI fans, who are mostly against this kind of franchise football.

Not the current non-LoI fans, because they don't actually want to go to non-event football matches.

so...erm....

eagle eye

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Who would support those teams?

Not the current LoI fans, who are mostly against this kind of franchise football.

Not the current non-LoI fans, because they don't actually want to go to non-event football matches.

so...erm....

I think you'd get a big following for all those teams. Connacht rugby has seen their crowds grow massively since the Pro12 league began.

Lovely Bloke

Rugby aside, what evidence have that there is an appetite for regular attendance at live football in any of the provinces?

People flock to the gah in the summer too, but they don't go to football.

Incidentally, where will these teams be playing? Current LoI grounds? Are they going to be done up?

Korat

eagle eye wrote: »

I think you'd get a big following for all those teams. Connacht rugby has seen their crowds grow massively since the Pro12 league began.

There's a lesson to be learned from the Pro-12 system too in that creating a franchise with pooled resources to become the elite team to represent an area can hurt clubs and that shouldn't be an after thought.

Overall though it has been phenomenally successful in providing a domestic rugby product for large numbers of fans to get behind and pump money into the IRFU.

I don't think a provincial system would work in soccer, hence only one or two teams going into the new league with a play-off carrot for the domestic champions.

Selling the idea to countries with box-office teams like Portugal, Netherland and Scotland is the hardest part because it's their domestic competitions which have most to lose.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

I think you'd get a big following for all those teams. Connacht rugby has seen their crowds grow massively since the Pro12 league began.

Yeah but this isn't rugby. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest the people of Ireland want to go to the hassle of going to matches every week. Sky Sports and the odd day trip will do just fine.

Richard Hillman

I dont fancy importing the social problems that Scottish football causes but I think it would generally be a beneficial idea. There needs to be something to reinvigourate the national games in Ireland, Scotland and the other willing participants.

I would prefer to use it as a Dublin team, Cork and a strictly non-political Belfast team.

The ROI, NI and Scottish leagues are going nowhere fast. The Portuguese and Belgians benefit from lax laws for South Americans and Africans using their leagues as a gateway to European football but overall the leagues are in real trouble.

People whinge about the Big Leagues hoovering supporters from the national leagues. One thing is for sure, doing absolutly nothing in regard to the leagues structures is making things worse. The current situation isnt going to get any better. Tradionalists may not like it but they are small and vocal minority.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

no comment on the match going fans?

They get to see better football every second week?

titan18

CSF wrote: »

Yeah but this isn't rugby. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest the people of Ireland want to go to the hassle of going to matches every week. Sky Sports and the odd day trip will do just fine.

If the teams were successful, they would.

Ulysses Gaze

There has been talk of a Balkans League for the last couple of years. Essentially Serb, Croat, Macedonian, Montengrin, Bosnian and Slovene teams in one league with the possibility of Hungarian and Bulgarian teams as well.

Platini was backing it at one point.

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2016/1/15/could-a-balkan-football-league-ever-work

That said, I can't see an Atlantic League working.

Who would give up their shot at the Champions League? I remember when it was first touted that UEFA were categorical that if it did go ahead, the teams that played in it would not be allowed into the Champions League.

That will kill it stone dead. Too much money at stake.

Richard Hillman

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

There has been talk of a Balkans League for the last couple of years. Essentially Serb, Croat, Macedonian, Montengrin, Bosnian and Slovene teams in one league with the possibility of Hungarian and Bulgarian teams as well.

Platini was backing it at one point.

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2016/1/15/could-a-balkan-football-league-ever-work

That said, I can't see an Atlantic League working.

Who would give up their shot at the Champions League? I remember when it was first touted that UEFA were categorical that if it did go ahead, the teams that played in it would not be allowed into the Champions League.

That will kill it stone dead. Too much money at stake.

That is the problem. Clubs are only thinking short-term in terms of cash. Celtic are a great example of thinking the annual Champions League windfall will be enough. If their league's are falling apart, all the big clubs in small leagues will end up down the Celtic route.

Soon we will have the likes of the cash rich Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Georgians coming strong to replace the Scots, Nordics and the Benelux clubs. The champions league will be harder to gain qualification.

CSF

titan18 wrote: »

If the teams were successful, they would.

It is possible but it all depends how we define successful. Chicken and the egg story unfortunately in any case.

Omackeral

We had Dublin City before. They even wore blue like the GAA team. They had about 60 fans. They died in 2006.

Captain Havoc

Omackeral wrote: »

We had Dublin City before. They even wore blue like the GAA team. They had about 60 fans. They died in 2006.

That was different as it was a league of Ireland club and I think LoI fans have already picked their teams or get ducked in by fans of existing clubs in the capital. Only new clubs down the country would have a chance really. Atlantic league could be an alternative but never a replacement. If UEFA approved it there would be a couple of CL spots and maybe four EL spots. At the moment between the four countries, there's 4 CL and 12 EL slots, I don't see associations being eager to give those up.