Anyone else think the WC qualifiers have been completely bizarre?

Daysha

Firstly, the only teams to finish unbeaten were Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain....and the Republic of Ireland. But despite that impressive record Ireland have the lowest points total of all the 2nd placed teams. We've reached the play-offs even though our only victories in the entire campaign came against Cyprus and Georgia. Our record against Italy, Bulgaria and Montenegro stands as P6, W0, D6, L0

The seeds were tossed completely upside down too. Poland came top of their table in the Euro 08 qualifiers and took part in the 06 World Cup too....and ended up 5th in their group. The team that topped said group were 4th seeds Slovakia, with 5th seeds Slovenia making the playoffs.

Only 4 of the top 9 seeds actually finished top of their group, Italy, Germany, Holland and Spain. France, Portugal and Greece made the playoffs while Croatia and Czech Rep were knocked out completely.

Of the 9 2nd seeds, only two teams finished in the top two of their group, England who qualified automatically and Russia who came 2nd. Turkey, Scotland, Romania, Sweden, Israel, Poland and Bulgaria are all gone.

Switzerland qualified for the WC top of their table even though they suffered an embarrasing defeat to Luxembourg.

It's a bit all over the place around the continents too. Argentina are 90 minutes away from suffering elimination before South Africa even begins, North Korea have qualified for the first time since 1966, Australia qualified via Asia while either New Zealand or Bahrain will also qualify, depending on who wins their playoff.

Seriously, it's all been a bit mad hasn't it?

GLaDOS

Daysha wrote: »

But despite that impressive record Ireland have the lowest points total of all the 2nd placed teams.

2nd lowest actually, we wouldn't be in the playoffs if we were lowest, that honour went to Norway

But I agree with you, plenty of odd results, all the better for the game in my opinion though

Daysha

ScienceNerd wrote: »

2nd lowest actually, we wouldn't be in the playoffs if we were lowest, that honour went to Norway

Sorry yeah, meant to say lowest of all the teams in groups of 6.

Rekop dog

Nice post mate and some really interesting findings!

I think it's just the sign of the times that a lot of the big players in the so called top teams simply put club interests before their international duties and don't exert themselves or risk injuries that could compromise their position at club level! Money is slowly ruining the game!!

BaZmO*

Daysha wrote: »

But despite that impressive record Ireland have the lowest points total of all the 2nd placed teams.

But what you seem to be forgetting is that we had already qualified with a game left to play so tonight was only an exercise in keeping an unbeaten record.

Tonight would've been a different match if we had of needed the win. Can't say for definite if we would've had gotten the 3 pts. but we certainly would've fielded a totally different team.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think it signifies that there aren't a lot of great quality teams around at the moment. Here is the current list of the top 10 teams in the world...

1. Brazil
2. Spain
3. Netherlands
4. Italy
= Germany
6. Russia
7. England
8. Argentina
9. Croatia
10. France

Italy aren't at the level they were three years ago, France's difficulties are well known, Argentina have been all over the shop and Croatia didn't qualify. There's a few teams on a different level to the rest but then there's a sharp drop-off.

Daysha

BaZmO* wrote: »

But what you seem to be forgetting is that we had already qualified with a game left to play so tonight was only an exercise in keeping an unbeaten record.

Tonight would've been a different match if we had of needed the win. Can't say for definite if we would've had gotten the 3 pts. but we certainly would've fielded a totally different team.

Oh I completely understand that, but I'm just taking the facts for what they are and what they'll show all those years down the line.

BaZmO*

Daysha wrote: »

Oh I completely understand that, but I'm just taking the facts for what they are and what they'll show all those years down the line.

Well I suppose it's just proof that facts always need to be taken in the right context.

Third_Echelon

International football is always goes in these cycles anyway...

You have the top teams in the world.. Brazils, Germanys, Hollands etc who have a wealth of talent all the time and rarely miss a tournament.

The rest of the countries only seem to get a good batch of players for a 4 to 8 year period, then they suddenly don't have the talent coming through to replace them and miss a few competitions...

Ireland have suffered from this post Italia '90 / USA '94 period. Czech Republic look like they are going through this at the moment as well.

I also think that the so-called smaller nations (a lot of them from the break-up of Russia, Czechslovkia, Yugoslavia etc in Europe) are becoming a lot stronger and will be forces to be reckoned with... Basically, the gap is getting smaller between the traditional top and lesser nations.

chopperbyrne

Third_Echelon wrote: »

International football is always goes in these cycles anyway...

You have the top teams in the world.. Brazils, Germanys, Hollands etc who have a wealth of talent all the time and rarely miss a tournament.

The rest of the countries only seem to get a good batch of players for a 4 to 8 year period, then they suddenly don't have the talent coming through to replace them and miss a few competitions...

Ireland have suffered from this post Italia '90 / USA '94 period. Czech Republic look like they are going through this at the moment as well.

I also think that the so-called smaller nations (a lot of them from the break-up of Russia, Czechslovkia, Yugoslavia etc in Europe) are becoming a lot stronger and will be forces to be reckoned with... Basically, the gap is getting smaller between the traditional top and lesser nations.

I agree with this completely, especially on the Yugoslavia front.



Yugoslavia used to be a good side who could take the best talent from throughout the country and field their team. Break that country up into seven or eight countries and now each one might only have one top player, two if they're lucky.

noodler

Daysha wrote: »

Firstly, the only teams to finish unbeaten were Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain....and the Republic of Ireland. But despite that impressive record Ireland have the lowest points total of all the 2nd placed teams. We've reached the play-offs even though our only victories in the entire campaign came against Cyprus and Georgia. Our record against Italy, Bulgaria and Montenegro stands as P6, W0, D6, L0

The seeds were tossed completely upside down too. Poland came top of their table in the Euro 08 qualifiers and took part in the 06 World Cup too....and ended up 5th in their group. The team that topped said group were 4th seeds Slovakia, with 5th seeds Slovenia making the playoffs.

Only 4 of the top 9 seeds actually finished top of their group, Italy, Germany, Holland and Spain. France, Portugal and Greece made the playoffs while Croatia and Czech Rep were knocked out completely.

Of the 9 2nd seeds, only two teams finished in the top two of their group, England who qualified automatically and Russia who came 2nd. Turkey, Scotland, Romania, Sweden, Israel, Poland and Bulgaria are all gone.

Switzerland qualified for the WC top of their table even though they suffered an embarrasing defeat to Luxembourg.

It's a bit all over the place around the continents too. Argentina are 90 minutes away from suffering elimination before South Africa even begins, North Korea have qualified for the first time since 1966, Australia qualified via Asia while either New Zealand or Bahrain will also qualify, depending on who wins their playoff.

Seriously, it's all been a bit mad hasn't it?

You posted this exact same topic on Gamefaqs' football board.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=584743&topic=51782148

Daysha

noodler wrote: »

You posted this exact same topic on Gamefaqs' football board.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=584743&topic=51782148

And? I cross-post all the time, it's always good to get different opinions and all that.

Next years World Cup is between Spain and Brazil imo, with England, Germany and Holland just behind them. The qualifiers so far show they've been the strongest.

noodler

Daysha wrote: »

And? I cross-post all the time, it's always good to get different opinions and all that.

Next years World Cup is between Spain and Brazil imo, with England, Germany and Holland just behind them. The qualifiers so far show they've been the strongest.

And? And you're a lazy fecker thats what.

parker kent

Daysha wrote: »

And? I cross-post all the time, it's always good to get different opinions and all that.

Next years World Cup is between Spain and Brazil imo, with England, Germany and Holland just behind them. The qualifiers so far show they've been the strongest.

Sometimes being brilliant in qualifying means little in relation to the tournament. Plenty of times in history a team has flown through qualifying only to flop in the world cup/euros. Plus Brazil, Germany and Italy are examples of teams who have crept through qualifying only to go on and win or make the final. Things could be very different next June

briany

I haven't been following the other groups that closely but I thought the last round of games threw up some surprises. I guess it's just that most of the teams didn't really care as much since most of the standings were really set in stone by that stage.

JerryHandbag

...and so I dream of the following group at next summers world cup...

Slovakia
Ireland
Bahrain
Honduras

...after beating Greece on penos in the play-off of course

GLaDOS

JerryHandbag wrote: »

...and so I dream of the following group at next summers world cup...

Slovakia
Ireland
Bahrain
Honduras

...after beating Greece on penos in the play-off of course

We'd nick second after 2 draws and a dodgy 1-0 win over Bahrain

briany

A dream group but wouldn't seeding prevent such a draw?

dannydiamond

Daysha wrote: »

Firstly, the only teams to finish unbeaten were Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain....and the Republic of Ireland. But despite that impressive record Ireland have the lowest points total of all the 2nd placed teams. We've reached the play-offs even though our only victories in the entire campaign came against Cyprus and Georgia. Our record against Italy, Bulgaria and Montenegro stands as P6, W0, D6, L0

The seeds were tossed completely upside down too. Poland came top of their table in the Euro 08 qualifiers and took part in the 06 World Cup too....and ended up 5th in their group. The team that topped said group were 4th seeds Slovakia, with 5th seeds Slovenia making the playoffs.

Only 4 of the top 9 seeds actually finished top of their group, Italy, Germany, Holland and Spain. France, Portugal and Greece made the playoffs while Croatia and Czech Rep were knocked out completely.

Of the 9 2nd seeds, only two teams finished in the top two of their group, England who qualified automatically and Russia who came 2nd. Turkey, Scotland, Romania, Sweden, Israel, Poland and Bulgaria are all gone.

Switzerland qualified for the WC top of their table even though they suffered an embarrasing defeat to Luxembourg.

It's a bit all over the place around the continents too. Argentina are 90 minutes away from suffering elimination before South Africa even begins, North Korea have qualified for the first time since 1966, Australia qualified via Asia while either New Zealand or Bahrain will also qualify, depending on who wins their playoff.

Seriously, it's all been a bit mad hasn't it?

It's been said many times in different contexts but




THIS IS FOOTBALL

Daysha

briany wrote: »

A dream group but wouldn't seeding prevent such a draw?

It would yeah, but South Africa will be first seeds as hosts so they'd be a handy one to get for any team (remember when S.Korea and Japan were 1st seeds in 02?). Assuming it'll be based on world rankings and the draw were to take place tomorrow the top seeds would be...

Brazil
Spain
Holland
Germany
Italy
Russia
England
South Africa

The second seeds would automatically be every other European team in the draw, since they can't have more than 2 European teams in a single group. That would be...

Switzerland
Slovakia
Denmark
Serbia
The 4 play off winners

In 06 they just split the other 2 groups based on their continent (N.America and Asia in one pot, S.America and Africa in the other) so they could do something similar there.

In a dreamworld any of the 2nd seeds and not just ourselves if we make it could technically be looking at a group including S.Africa, Honduras and Chile.

Edit: aaand I've just realised that if Russia qualify there'd only be 3 playoffs winners in the 2nd pot, ah well, you get the drift!

JPA

Daysha wrote: »

The second seeds would automatically be every other European team in the draw, since they can't have more than 2 European teams in a single group. That would be...

Um, what do you mean? It's frequently 2 European team in WC groups, unless I've taken you up wrong.

noodler

JPA wrote: »

Um, what do you mean? It's frequently 2 European team in WC groups, unless I've taken you up wrong.

Exactly, so as he said, 'not more than two'.

JPA

noodler wrote: »

Exactly, so as he said, 'not more than two'.

Yep, I did indeed misinterpret what he said.

5starpool

I don't think they would automatically be second seeds though, it would just restrict what group they could be drawn in, the same way that 2 teams from the same country can't be in the same group in the champs league, and there would be a group redraw if 3 were drawn in the same group.

Edit: Have the rules on this changed? In 1994 and 1990 we were in a group with 3 European teams in it in the WC.

Xavi6

I loved James Richardson's description of the final round of qualifiers. He said that it was "littered with dead rubbers like Dwight Yorke's bedroom on a Sunday morning"

AARRRGH

parker kent wrote: »

Sometimes being brilliant in qualifying means little in relation to the tournament. Plenty of times in history a team has flown through qualifying only to flop in the world cup/euros. Plus Brazil, Germany and Italy are examples of teams who have crept through qualifying only to go on and win or make the final. Things could be very different next June

Gotta agree with this.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Italy went on to win it.

Daysha

5starpool wrote: »

Edit: Have the rules on this changed? In 1994 and 1990 we were in a group with 3 European teams in it in the WC.

Well back then there were only 24 teams in the competition, yet there were still 13 European teams, so they had no choice but to put 3 European teams in one group. But since it's expanded to 32 it's always been the case that no more than 2 European countries can share the same group.

everdead.ie

Do you not think tho if we needed to win against montenegro we would of put out a full strength team and won that would have us mid table of the 9 2nd placed teams and only two points off russia on top!