Fingal County Council bins waiver scheme

Sizzler

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/waiver-scheme-binned-1912054.html

wrote:

FINGAL County Council has announced an end to free bin tags for those on social welfare and low incomes in a bid to claw back an overspend of more than € 3 million on providing its waste collection service.

The end of bin-tag waivers will apply across the board and without exception from January of next year but waivers for the fixed annual waste charge will remain in place.

While the council argued the waiver system was unsustainable, Cllr Clare Daly (SP), called the decision 'an absolute disgrace' and said it would hit the most vulnerable sections of society. Around 11,000 households claimed the waivers last year and depending on the size of the family, the council distributed between 15 and 39 free bin tags to each family.

Alan Farrell, just wondered what you thought of this? Was this voted on? Where does FG stand on the issue?

squonk

I found the waiver a great benefit at a time previously when I was unemployed and had enough on my plate paying all my bills as was. This really is a disgrace. So many people are unemployed now or facing it in the coming months, it's really an attack on those who are vulnerable. Ultimately there's something wrong with environmental policies if they are not financially sustainable. It's unfair to expect the unemployed to make up that loss.

Eoineo

Absolutely shocking imho.

SW recipients more than likely face a further cut in the next budget as well. Talk about reducing their net income.

What will Fingal CoCo do if they fail to pay their bin tags & leave the refuse on the streets? Prosecute them? For what money?

Sizzler

Totally agree folks.

It would seem that only one councillor kicked off about this. It reads as if this was slipped in through the backdoor in a hush hush manner so as not to cause any hassle for FCC.

Fingal area is going through enough hardship without the council getting the boot in :mad:

Moonbeam

I wonder will charities still get it?

The Hill Billy

This is an absolute bloody disgrace. FCC managers & the councillors who voted for this change of policy should be ashamed of themselves.

Has anyone been in touch with their ward county councillors about this? If so, I'd appreciate any feedback that you've received.

LeoB

Unfortunatley this is only the tip of the ice berg. Will it be followed by water charges.

Is there any way aroud this? I didnt get these tags. Thank god I have a job and hopefully will hang onto it.

S/W was a model to be cut when you look at the growth in THE s/w budgethas grown hughley since 2002 over 4 times, and from what I understand all parties are more or less in favour or understand the need for cuts. There is no fair way of doing any of this unless the means test it.

Alan Farrell

Sizzler wrote: »

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/waiver-scheme-binned-1912054.html

Alan Farrell, just wondered what you thought of this? Was this voted on? Where does FG stand on the issue?

All decisions relating to the waste service is a managerial function. There was no vote as this power was removed from us in 2002 by FF.

I think that the amount of free tags provided should have been addressed rather than abolishing the facility. I believe this will hit families who are on the breadline very hard which of course is completely unfair.

All that said, any household putting out their black bin between 15 & 39 times a year really needs to evaluate how they are managing their own waste. While I live in a two person household, I put my black bin out three (3) times in 2008 and just twice (2) so far this year.

Hill Billy wrote: »

This is an absolute bloody disgrace. FCC managers & the councillors who voted for this change of policy should be ashamed of themselves.

Has anyone been in touch with their ward county councillors about this? If so, I'd appreciate any feedback that you've received.

Please see above HB.

LeoB wrote: »

Unfortunatley this is only the tip of the ice berg. Will it be followed by water charges.

Is there any way aroud this? I didnt get these tags. Thank god I have a job and hopefully will hang onto it.

S/W was a model to be cut when you look at the growth in THE s/w budgethas grown hughley since 2002 over 4 times, and from what I understand all parties are more or less in favour or understand the need for cuts. There is no fair way of doing any of this unless the means test it.

Means testing would probably have been a good idea but I think if cuts in the provision of the service were inevitable, then an allowance scheme should have been introduced.

Its hard to see how Water Charges could be introduced given the estimated cost of installing meters. In saying that, Water Charges will also be a managerial function as no Councillor in their right might would vote to introduce it!

Could I point out that virtually every councillor contributed to the debate on this issue in the chamber. The matter can be viewed online at http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/site/ Go to "full council October 12th" then "index point" followed by item 27. (Windows Explorer only, doesn't seem to work in firefox)

LeoB

Good reply Alan.

There are a few issues which are going to raise their heads onthis issue and I would not expect you to get into it here.

I agree its disgraceful that these waiver is being done away with but I am not one bit suprised. Its hard to take when you look at what we nearly all enjoyed over the last few years.

I dont think the cost of water meters will be excessive. I thought a lot of new homes had them? However, we cant just sit and blame any 1 party for this Alan and I know you didnt really point the finger;). But some politican is going to have break ranks and say what people are REALLY saying and what IS happening all over North Dublin and further afield I believe. Have a look at DCN off topic thread.

We were always laughed at by some people who always screwed the system but now I feel we are being flogged, screwed and laughed at. The only reason this waiver is going and cuts in S/W are planned is we are throwing money at some sections of the populas, who never have and never will contribute anything to our society with very little questions being asked. Why has the S/W bill got so big in 5 years.

I am saying no more its late I will be banned

Absurdum

LeoB wrote: »

Why has the S/W bill got so big in 5 years.

no doubt cases like this are a big part of the problem

The Hill Billy

Let's keep this on-topic, ie, Fingal Bin Waiver Scheme. If you want to discuss Social Welfare fraud - take it to the appropriate forum (not DCN).

Thanks,

HB

Absurdum

It's part of the overall scheme of things though, as Alan has pointed out:

Alan Farrell wrote: »

All that said, any household putting out their black bin between 15 & 39 times a year really needs to evaluate how they are managing their own waste. While I live in a two person household, I put my black bin out three (3) times in 2008 and just twice (2) so far this year.

Maybe it's just the case that some people who are handed something for nothing could not be bothered to spend two minutes per day segregating the waste that they produce, or cutting down on waste in the first place.

Unfortunately I fear that the net result of this will be more household waste dumped in ditches, etc.

dubmick

Absurdum wrote: »

Unfortunately I fear that the net result of this will be more household waste dumped in ditches, etc.

I think this might already be happening. I've seen illegal dumping of rubbish bags on a few occasions near exit 5 on the M1. I also seen it recently in Balrothery.

This sort of behaviour disgusts me.

Alan Farrell

dubmick wrote: »

I think this might already be happening. I've seen illegal dumping of rubbish bags on a few occasions near exit 5 on the M1. I also seen it recently in Balrothery.

This sort of behaviour disgusts me.

Disgusts us all I would think.

LeoB

Hill Billy wrote: »

Let's keep this on-topic, ie, Fingal Bin Waiver Scheme. If you want to discuss Social Welfare fraud - take it to the appropriate forum (not DCN).

Thanks,

HB

OK. Me lordship.;)

The dumping is going on all the time. Ditchs along Palmer Rd in Rush, stuff thrown over the cliffs. I walked along the cliffs aboout 2 years ago and thought I was in a scrapyard in Detroit. cars, fridges, washing machines you name.....

I think the only way to do this any way fairly is to means test it. There are people geting everything going and they have a far better lifestyle than I do. I can afford it mainly because I was lucky not to be caught up with a huge mortage. My view is not popular with some people I work with who want everything for nothing but we have to get real. There are people in our communities who simply cant pay and we need to look after them. And only the ones who have contributed to our state over the years.

Eoineo

Actually it was in a way means tested and for those on a low income it will still be means tested. Technically the waiver scheme is still in place for the annual charge it's just that those eligible won't get free bin tags which were allocated according to the size of the family and the time of the year that it was applied for. In order to qualify for the waiver you need to be exempt from income tax (i.e. receiving benefits only) or qualifying for Family Income Supplement.

Removal of the system wasn't down to recipients abusing the free bin tags though - according to the report above it was down to the council having an overspend of over €3 million in their waste collection service. I was under the impression that the new Greyhound contract represented a significant saving for the council.

Sizzler

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/cllrs-had-no-say-on-plan-1918853.html

wrote:

THE plan to abandon the free bin tag scheme for those living on social welfare faced a lot of opposition in the council chamber but ultimately the elected councillors had no control over the decision.

The decision was 'a reserved function' for council management meaning that the county management team only had an obligation to inform councillors of its plans which were not subject to a vote.

Cllr Clare Daly (SP) said it was a 'terrible decision' and would be 'met with dismay' by old-age pensioners and social welfare recipients.

The Socialist Party councillor said: 'The most vulnerable people are paying the price for the fact that the council is not being properly funded by the Government.'

Cllr Peter Coyle (Lab) said the decision was 'a huge penalty on the most vulnerable in our society'. Cllr May McKeon (NP), reminded her colleagues that the waiver scheme for the annual waste charge was remaining in place. She said the decision would not be a popular one but that councillors had 'no hand, act or part in it'. Cllr Tom Kelleher (Lab), laid the blame for the decision at the feet of Government and the Minister for the Environment, John Gormley TD who he said had an 'attitude bordering on the despicable towards local government' and had 'done nothing to fund local government'.

Cllr Eoghan O'Brien (FF) asked how much would be saved by the measure and was told it would be about € 3 million while Cllr Tom O'Leary (FG) said the decision was an 'unacceptable way' of dealing with the council's budgetary problems.

Cllr Anne Devitt (FG), said she believed that waiver schemes should be the responsibility of the Department of Social and Family Affairs and not local authorities.

Cllr Gerry McGuire (Lab), called for a reversal of the decision while his Labour Party colleague and Mayor of Fingal, Cllr Ciaran Byrne (Lab), said that the underfunding of local authorities was dividing elected members and county management teams. The comments were made as county manager, David O'Connor, announced the end of the bin-tag waiver scheme at a full meeting of the council.

billyhead

Folks,

Whats the income threshold for the waiver of €110

Eoineo

Eoineo wrote: »

In order to qualify for the waiver you need to be exempt from income tax (i.e. receiving benefits only) or qualifying for Family Income Supplement.

I already answered this above?

Cllr Tom Kelleher (Lab), laid the blame for the decision at the feet of Government and the Minister for the Environment, John Gormley TD who he said had an 'attitude bordering on the despicable towards local government' and had 'done nothing to fund local government'.

It's a poor comment from Mr Kelleher to blame the removal of the bin waiver on the Dept of Environment & Local Government's funding. I got the impression that the overspend was this year which is more due to bad budgeting by FCC imho.

Absurdum

sounds like a frantic round of passing the buck

Alan Farrell

Absurdum wrote: »

sounds like a frantic round of passing the buck

Far from me to defend any other councillor, but are you reading the same thread?

Its a managerial function which was presented for information purposes only.

LeoB

The Cllrs in general have said what we all think and know, it disgraceful and it will hurt the people who need them most. No matter who is power we are facing into a really tough budget and it is going to get worse.

Some politican is really going to have to go out on a limb and come up with a real proposal to make savings or row back to our S/W budget of around 2004 which would be approx €2 Billion less than it currently is. On figures I have read the savings required would more than make up for the proposed cuts in S/W and this money could be used as Alan Farrell says to have some sort of allowance for the families who need it.

With the curent state of things its time for some sort of all party agreement. If Brian Lenihan can say on national Radio he will sit down with Richard Bruton and take into account his proposals I dont see why 3 or 4 Cllrs cant do the same. Its not playing to the populas it make sense

Absurdum

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Far from me to defend any other councillor, but are you reading the same thread?

Its a managerial function which was presented for information purposes only.

Noted, but as already stated above, cutbacks are necessary because of bad budgeting, which is the responsibility of the councillors.

Bluetonic

LeoB wrote: »

I think the only way to do this any way fairly is to means test it.

Fair enough.

LeoB wrote: »

There are people geting everything going and they have a far better lifestyle than I do.

Who?

LeoB wrote: »

I can afford it mainly because I was lucky not to be caught up with a huge mortage.

Not sure what luck has to do with it, it was economics that ensured your salary rose whilst your mortgage remained the same.

LeoB wrote: »

My view is not popular with some people I work with who want everything for nothing but we have to get real.

Again who are you talking about?

LeoB wrote: »

There are people in our communities who simply cant pay and we need to look after them. And only the ones who have contributed to our state over the years.

Can I ask why you are of that narrow minded opinion? Why only those who contributed to 'our state'?

Back to your original statement

LeoB wrote: »

I think the only way to do this any way fairly is to means test it.

Would you be happy to pay tax based on your means? (means would included property at MV)

LeoB

Bluetonic wrote: »

Fair enough.


Who?


Not sure what luck has to do with it, it was economics that ensured your salary rose whilst your mortgage remained the same.


Again who are you talking about?


Can I ask why you are of that narrow minded opinion? Why only those who contributed to 'our state'?

Back to your original statement



Would you be happy to pay tax based on your means? (means would included property at MV)

I need to be careful here, dont want to get banned.
If you read between my lines I am pointing the fingure at certain non-nationals who are getting so many benefits its sickening. Benefits that should be available to our own people first. And yes we have our own people who also screw the system. That will be viewed as racist. Let me be clear I am not racist. I deal with non nationals every day at work and at coaching a few times a week.

I was lucky enough to enter the property market before the celtic tiger was born. I see the huge pressure people generally younger couples are under and I feel lucky that I am not in their position. My salary definatley rose but nowhere the way others did. Again I dont throw money around the way some people did during the celtic tiger.

Some people have the attidtude get what you can,fcuk them.
This is appalling. Basically I am all right so fck you.

I am basically saying look after Irish people first. People who have worked and payed into our system over the years via PAYE & V.A.T &P.R.S.I. A lot of people dont like that but as I have stated that is a growing feeling I see every day. Some say we are a welfare state other say we are a welfare tourist state and I now tend to agree with the latter.

I am not fully sure about your last point. I have already paid V.A.T and other fees when I built my house, my wife would flip at that prospect.
However I recognise we are up s**t creek at the moment and if it means getting the country back on track I will gladly contribute, well not gladly but you know what I mean. There is no equation between what I built my house for and what someone would pay for it now. I would not pay the money for some developers got for dog boxs but there is always someone who will.

A suggested way of saving the waiver.
I have suggested means testing as way to give people a helping hand through the recession something along these lines.
If you are in full time employment and If you earn less than €15,000 a year you get a full benefit on bin waiver
If you earn between €15 and €25 you get 70% waiver If you earn less than €30,000 you get 40%.

Some people would lose some of their tags and someone who need them will keep them. We just cant keep shelling out freebies.

ThinkI need to pm the mods for guidance before I say anymore

Alan Farrell

Absurdum wrote: »

Noted, but as already stated above, cutbacks are necessary because of bad budgeting, which is the responsibility of the councillors.

No, actually you are wrong.

The day to day management of the environment departments budget is a managerial function. The reason that this budget has been curtained is because central government has reduced the local government fund across the board.

Councillors are advocates, not managers.

LeoB

O.K To put it straight.

Quite a few non-nationals are here for nothing else but the Social welfare money and what goes with it., IE bin waiver. Quite a few just dump in the ditchs or put their rubbish into public bin on the street which I believe is illegal. They also use neighbours bins
Most contirbute nothing to our communities,
Most dont go into our shops they stick with their own food shops which is taking money out of the country.
If they have a penny left over its not saved, it a western union money transfer back home. They dont need to save we will give them more.
A lot get their clothes sent from home.
They get food sent from home.
They get cigs sent from home.
Quite a few have no Tax or Insurace on their cars and when they run into the back of your car or mine while sober or drunk they just move address. You and Me will pick up the tab. They are now into cloning cars, Taxi's, same number plate and taxi plate. I often wonder who pays for 2 cars in a drive and yet the occupants are on social welfare.

This IS what is happening EVERY day in this great little nation and what has been done about it? Nothing. No we will have a witch hunt against a politican who over spends on hotels!

How many of the poor devils here are seeking political asylum and then manage to go home for 6 weeks during the summer to make sure their families are ok?

This is only the tip of the iceberg. They have all sorts of scams going.
Probably quite a few people here will think I am racist. Im not and would say I am quite respectful of other people. I think its ok to expect the same in return but when you open your mouth you get either the racist line from them, its because "Im black" or "Coloured" or some other person playing god and saying "ah the poor devils".

My children mix well with non-national at school and we would regard one child as a friend. I coach 1 non-national child and that child is quite good kid. There were more of them but when membership came up they lost interest. Last year after my mother died one coloured man who lives close by called to my door to offer the condolences from his family to mine, he was'nt sure of the traditions to call during the wake. He brought me down to his house where a few of his friends and I had quite an enjoyable time. What did strike me was they emphasised they did not want to classed as a certain North African country and were all quite proud of the fact they work and pay Tax. Unlike their fellow Africans who scam all the time, their words not mine. So please dont come back with the racist line.

Now if we sorted this mess out and sent people home we cant cater for, this alone could solve the Bin waiver issue. Build a few much needed class rooms, pay towards Breast check, Cervical screening fund much needed child welfare and early intervention teams which are badly needed. This is how I see it anyway.
Charity begins at home. Sorry for the rant.

Nodster

Have to agree with what Leo said - many a fair point posted

blahblah06

one thing to say. if these people can afford the food to fill up to 39 bins a year then they can afford to buy a bloody bin tag.

My god

The Hill Billy

Bluetonic banned for a week for being naughty.
This is getting too messy - Thread closed.

HB