Finland leading the way with broadband

nohopengn

Finland may no have the best broadband infrastructure - that prize would have to go to South Korea - however, hats off to them, they have introduced legislation ensuring that broadband is a legal right. I wish we could do something similar here

Come July 2010, every Fin will have access to a 1 Megabit-per-second broadband connection. Finland just became the first country in the world to sign a law that provides every citizen of the country with a legal right to a broadband connection.
The Finnish government had already announced that every citizen should have access to a 100 Megabit-per-second broadband connection by the end of 2015. Now, it took an intermediary step toward that goal. On Oct. 14, the Ministry of Transport and Communications announced that every Fin should have a legal right to a 1 Megabit-per-second connection by next summer.


More details here:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/10/finland_broadba.html

mehmeh12

nohopengn wrote: »

Finland may no have the best broadband infrastructure - that prize would have to go to South Korea - however, hats off to them, they have introduced legislation ensuring that broadband is a legal right. I wish we could do something similar here

Come July 2010, every Fin will have access to a 1 Megabit-per-second broadband connection. Finland just became the first country in the world to sign a law that provides every citizen of the country with a legal right to a broadband connection.
The Finnish government had already announced that every citizen should have access to a 100 Megabit-per-second broadband connection by the end of 2015. Now, it took an intermediary step toward that goal. On Oct. 14, the Ministry of Transport and Communications announced that every Fin should have a legal right to a 1 Megabit-per-second connection by next summer.


More details here:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/10/finland_broadba.html

But how is the Finnish situation relevant to Ireland?

nohopengn

What has happened in Finland is relevant to every country that has aspirations about a 'knowledge-based economy'.

Take some time, read the full article, then read it again, have a break and let the implications sink in..... I'm sure the penny will eventually drop

Sponge Bob

mehmeh12 wrote: »

But how is the Finnish situation relevant to Ireland?

A country 5 times bigger than Ireland , parts of it north of the Artic Circle , and with a similar population will guarantee 1mbit to all ( save 2000 households in remote areas) by 2010 .

Remote in Finland means 20 miles from the nearest neighbour kind of remote, or on one of their 100s of inhabited islands off the coast .

We do not have that large scale remoteness here, in fact everybody within the Irish definition of remote ...and living in Finland, would be guaranteed their 1mbit service .

mehmeh12

nohopengn wrote: »

What has happened in Finland is relevant to every country that has aspirations about a 'knowledge-based economy'.

Take some time, read the full article, then read it again, have a break and let the implications sink in..... I'm sure the penny will eventually drop

Ok Whatever I can read you know.

You honestly think that Ireland will have a free universal broadband service for all citizens? Please this country is in a right state-I imagine the cutbacks in the December budget wont really factor the need for improved services, free broadband or even payed broadband.

Sponge Bob

mehmeh12 wrote: »

You honestly think that Ireland will have a free universal broadband service for all citizens

Who mentioned "FREE" apart from you , have you even started to read the article ??

kippy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Remote in Finland means 20 miles from the nearest neighbour kind of remote, or on one of their 100s of inhabited islands off the coast .

Why would an uninhabited Island need broadband? (Sorry just nitpicking)
The thing is Every single Irish household CAN get some form of high speed connection via satellite, hell you could even say they can get 1Mbit and call it broadband, its the cost that the issue is with and I am sure the same issue will be apparent for those in Finland - cost to consumer.

Ireland needs a deced BB infrastructure, no doubt, however we signed that away when we didnt split up Eircom before the state sold them.
People in this country at times expect TOO much, BB is available to all, but not all need it or want to pay for it. Thats fair enough in my opinion. So long as businesses have what they need to operate, then I dont care too much about some guy who doesnt want to pay for his remoteness.

Xennon

The thing is Every single Irish household CAN get some form of high speed connection via satellite

Ammmmmm have you actually used Sat based BB??...if not....please....please go and find some poor misfortune who has paid for his years contract and use it

BB is available to all

Define Broadband??? An over contended 3Mb connection is NOT broadband. Take a 3Mb package offered by most of the ISPs, the 'stated' contention ratio is 48:1, this means ALL YOU ARE ENTITLED TO IS 62.5Kb......remember the wonderful days of dial-up?...I used to get 54Kb 20 years ago.....now thats what I call progress. :rolleyes:

but not all need it or want to pay for it. Thats fair enough in my opinion. So long as businesses have what they need to operate, then I dont care too much about some guy who doesnt want to pay for his remoteness.

How the hell can you be remote in a country this size???... Go see the Ozzy outback or the salt lakes in US...thats remote....

So the guy who runs his hosting company from west clare... or the lad who edits video on a semi professional basis ...or the lad who runs the IT department for a nationwide company...all should just move to the city?????....

fer chrissakes you can go from one end of this country to the other in less than 6hrs....

Im thinking T-shirt logos: Fibre....just do it!

Dr Kamikazi

6 hours, but only because the roads are mostly what other countries would describe as dirt tracks.
On a decent motorway from one end to the other more like 4...
But there's always the "Yes, but Ireland is different" argument.
Yes it is different, it is run by greedy corrupt b*stards. That in itself is nothing unusal, just look at Italy, it is run by greedy, corrupt, sleazy b*stards with ties to the Mafia.
But for some reason they built a country that worked (better than here anyway).
Maybe the problem here was the brain drain in the 80's.
Anyone with half a brain got out, while the thick, ignorant f*ckers who where in with the FF crowd through daddy got pulled aboard.
Hence the country is still run by thick f*cks who couldn't find their ar*e with both hands and the aid of Sat Nav if it was on fire.
So they need to hire "consultants" (mates whose way they send big, juicy jobs every now and then) to sit on their holes and compile "reports", i.e doodle something on a napkin in a pub at lunchtime after the 3rd pint, I mean exhaustive studies that take months to compile and cost thousands.
That then get chucked in the bin, because the fat, stupid cnut who asked for them in the first place doesn't understand a word that's in them.
What to do? Giive the job to a mate.
The result? Ireland.

Sponge Bob

Actually that describes the Greens perfectly since they got their faces into the trough , FF are even worse

kippy

Xennon wrote: »

Ammmmmm have you actually used Sat based BB??...if not....please....please go and find some poor misfortune who has paid for his years contract and use it




Define Broadband??? An over contended 3Mb connection is NOT broadband. Take a 3Mb package offered by most of the ISPs, the 'stated' contention ratio is 48:1, this means ALL YOU ARE ENTITLED TO IS 62.5Kb......remember the wonderful days of dial-up?...I used to get 54Kb 20 years ago.....now thats what I call progress. :rolleyes:



How the hell can you be remote in a country this size???... Go see the Ozzy outback or the salt lakes in US...thats remote....

So the guy who runs his hosting company from west clare... or the lad who edits video on a semi professional basis ...or the lad who runs the IT department for a nationwide company...all should just move to the city?????....

fer chrissakes you can go from one end of this country to the other in less than 6hrs....

Im thinking T-shirt logos: Fibre....just do it!

Just pointing out what the article about finland did or did not say in relation to this "constitutional right". You automaticilly assume it means the best type of broadband available to all. I dont.
I wasnt telling anyone to move to the city, just to be prepared to pay to receive a service.

Its very easy to be remote in a country like this. What type of broadband do they have in the outback? Fibre to everyones homes?

As I said, when the government made the decision to sell Eircom, they screwed up, they didnt make the same mistake with the ESB.

Xennon

Just pointing out what the article about finland did or did not say in relation to this "constitutional right". You automaticilly assume it means the best type of broadband available to all. I dont.

And my point is that whats on sale here ,even in built up areas, as broadband isnt really broadband, as Im sure many will attest to.

I wasnt telling anyone to move to the city, just to be prepared to pay to receive a service.

Thats the problem, many ARE willing to pay, but theres nothing there for them to pay for!

Its very easy to be remote in a country like this. What type of broadband do they have in the outback? Fibre to everyones homes?

My point is that there is no excuse for there not to be an infrastructure in this country, even in the remote areas, how many places are without electricity??..Did we not manage to cable that up?...So I dissagree, its not easy to be remote in this country. You stated that BB was available to all.... its not.

As I said, when the government made the decision to sell Eircom

Agreed, monumental cockup, especially when you consider Denmark were trying to recover from the very same cock up at the time. Aside: Why do we continuously have to repeat other countries mistakes???...

Oh if anyones bored, do a bit of research into the company that now owns Eircom, see where your moneys going.

Fibre is the only future proof infrastructure available. Run it to the homes and be done. At least lets just make a start???..

Anyway...enough of my ranting...someone else take over

Steffano2002

maybe we should outsource our government duties to Finland? Perhaps within a couple of years we'd have 100 Meg broadband everywhere, but also proper roads, proper hospitals, proper public transportation, economic stability... :rolleyes:

bk

Steffano2002 wrote: »

maybe we should outsource our government duties to Finland? Perhaps within a couple of years we'd have 100 Meg broadband everywhere, but also proper roads, proper hospitals, proper public transportation, economic stability... :rolleyes:

During the Lisbon treaty, no supporters where saying that we would end up giving control of our government over to the Germans. I knew it wasn't true, but secretly I was hoping it would do.

They certainly couldn't do anything worse then our shower.

Dr Kamikazi

Steffano2002 wrote: »

maybe we should outsource our government duties to Finland? Perhaps within a couple of years we'd have 100 Meg broadband everywhere, but also proper roads, proper hospitals, proper public transportation, economic stability... :rolleyes:

And we'll outsource our lot to Nigeria. At least there they'll have a slim chance of outperforming the local government.

kippy

Theres a lot of people getting their collective knickers in a twist about a very vague report in Finland.

1. The report does nothing to suggest that the 1MB broadband legal right is a) actually broadband in the strictest sense of the word.
2. The report does not suggest that the BB is Affordable.

Putting fibre to everyones homes in this country is NOT viable and I would suggest that there isnt a market for it.
Granted our infrastructure isnt up to scratch, but lets have some realistic ways of improving it.

Dr Kamikazi

The problem is that it would indeed be viable to provide BB to an awful lot more people.
The fact of the matter is that most ISP's have their little market and getting their returns.
They simply have no interest in investing anything as long as they get their money.
If the ESB had been privatised in the beginning, we would have a similar situation.
20% of houses would have electricity and the rest can take a running jump, because private companies aren't interested in advancing technology or the infrastructure of a country.
They're interested in making money. They'll exploit their little market for everything it's worth and try to stop anyone p*ssing in their soup.
That's why Ireland will ALWAYS have 3rd world broadband.
The only way is to build community driven networks, get a handful of connections and share them over wide area wireless networks. the kick out Eircom and all the other useless, gouging b*stards.
So, a handful of centralised connections, community built networks, starve the market for the profiteers, maybe once the existing IPS's and Eircom notice they're loosing customers by the boatload, will they do something.
And sadly, a lot of the times, companies will go bust before they realise they're losing the market. Good.

Sponge Bob

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

The only way is to build community driven networks, get a handful of connections and share them over wide area wireless networks. the kick out Eircom and all the other useless, gouging b*stards.

We can do better, we are as well off to install community fibre if possible.

An outline discussion on the general practicalities is taking place on that subject in this thread below... if anybody is interested.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055707790

Unlike Finland we cannot rely on our government to deliver anything and must try to work out a framework to do it ourselves . URGENTLY .

Xennon

Putting fibre to everyones homes in this country is NOT viable and I would suggest that there isnt a market for it.

And you base this conclusion on what?

Theres no market for RELIABLE multichannel digital HD TV, video phone communications,real broadband, movies on demand, etc etc no??...

ok...if we dont make a start on fibre to the home then lets at least make a start on fibre to the last node, ie upgrade the inter exchange connections.

I still say we should make a start on fibre to the home... would have been soooo easy if a few years ago part of the planning granted to all these wonderful housing estates included a stipulation that each house had to be fed with a fibre connection to a box at the entrance of the estate......

But that would require foresight...

As SpongeBob said .... we need a plan....

Creating a fibre network would put us many steps ahead for the future. The technology is there and is affordable. Many said running electricity to every home wouldnt be viable.... but it was done....

At least the ESB realize that this is the future...

citizen_p

damm.... in japan is there not free 20 mg broadband in cities???/

Sponge Bob

Japan is a whole generation ahead of us , think 20 years worth of catchup to do .

While a quality government 'plan' could possibly serve the c.40% of the population who live in cities or very large towns the rest of us have to get real about doing the business ourselves . Otherwise small town and rural Ireland will be toast , and I mean very very soon . eircom will collapse under the weight of its unfinanceable debts circa 2014 .

But it is easier to do that one would think and some of the issues/conceptual models are being teased out in this thread should anybody have something insightful to contribute or should anyone want to do their own communities and just suck it in .

The government cannot afford to install universal FTTH in Ireland .

It may eventually be persuaded to do this for the 40% of the population where this is most economically feasible or may it may look at FTTN ( the N=Node being within 1KM of everybody in the area where that 40% lives and maybe a tad more into the exurbs That itself is rather fraught may I add and FTTN is rather pointless in rural areas .

Sadly our minister for communications is an arrogant babbling moron .

None of that means we cannot work on getting the fibre in ourselves though and most of us will have to do it ourselves although we can share experiences and bulk purchasing and lobbying duties .

The future starts now but only if you own a spade

Marlow

The issues aren't quite simple.

Fibre to every exchange is not easy, because eircom isn't a government owned company (why would we spend money on a company owned by somebody not in Ireland ?). Also a lot of exchanges are still on microwave backhaul.

Matter of fact, Eircom has so small circuits to some exchanges, that broadband in the area virtually becomes unusable after 5pm (examples: Oughterard and Cornamona, Co. Galway).

If there was an intend, to do something about FTTH, this could be done along the ESB lines. The problem here is, that ESB Telecoms thinking is way more monopoly than eircom. They have a bunch of internal politics for interconnecting with other ISPs or letting other ISPs interconnect within their facility, that will you make scream and run away.

Essentially, before there even will be a start on getting fiber out to every exchange or home, the politicians need to force their own companies to open a lot more up. Otherwise, we'll just end up with just another government monopoly, that probably isn't worth paying for.

/M