Is it no really time to assess how much the irish language costs us all?

NewDubliner

Daithinski wrote: »

To be fair, its not a huge sum of money and I'm sure the Irish language gives a bit of interest to tourists, and it adds to the whole Celtic mystique that is part of the attraction of Ireland.

So foreign visitors come here to enjoy the delights of reading official documents in Irish and discussing Irish tax law 'as Geailge'?:rolleyes:

Daithinski wrote: »

Surely a couple of million invested in the Irish language could be seen as an investment.

A couple of million maybe, but we're spending much more than that in total on all the Irish-language vanity projects, make-work laws and 'we pay you to speak Irish' schemes. €355,000 a year on a newspaper with a readership of less than 4,500? c'mon.

Daithinski wrote: »

Its patently obvious this has just been an exercise in irish-bashing.

The reason is the deflective tactics of the Irish lobby as they continuously try to shift the argument to being pro Irish / anti-Irish.

Rebelheart

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think that post says a lot more about your own smug superiority complex than it does about any of the rest of us.

Alternatively, the truth hurts. As a rule, the average Irish speaker in Ireland is substantially more educated than the average English speaker in Ireland. Just glance back at the quality of English from so many of the anti-Irish brigade.

Monoglot anglophones who think the world revolves around Britain and British culture possess a myopia which makes them a uniquely intellectually repellant bunch indeed. Irish speakers, in sharp contrast, can move between both worlds (and in many cases, other languages) with a confidence and cultural appreciation unknown to the anti-Irish lobby whose singular achievement is in defining themselves by what they are against rather than what they are in favour of.

Irish is here to stay at the centre of Irish life. Get over this cultural fanaticism and bitterness which has marked the English tradition in Ireland for some centuries now.

Daithinski

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think that post says a lot more about your own smug superiority complex than it does about any of the rest of us.

I don't think I'm superior, I was merely pointing out that some people may feel inferior because they can't speak Irish.

Its non Irish speakers themselves who say things like "Irish is too hard, I did it for 14 years and only know how to ask to go to the toilet"

Yet they may be perfectly able to learn German, French Spanish etc.

Now that you mention it, maybe I should feel superior because I mastered a language that other people found extremely difficult. Hooray for me!

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

I don't speak Irish and my ancestors did not either

If that is indeed your situation, then it seems rather arrogant to consciously come to a country and expect it and its traditions to change because it doesn't suit you.

Aard

It's pointless debating with you, Rebelheart. You keep bringing up red-herrings, and not addressing the points I make. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, which comes through in your aggressive, assumptive posts.

NewDubliner

Rebelheart wrote: »

If that is indeed your situation, then it seems rather arrogant to consciously come to a country and expect it and its traditions to change because it doesn't suit you.

My ancestors came here 800 years ago....:rolleyes:

I assume you're talking about our tradition of not questioning money spent on Irish? Our tradition of accusing people of being unpatriotic for raising unpleasant and uncomfortable issues involving the Irish language industry?

You're the one trying to change the traditions of quite a few million English-speaking Irish people.

MysticalRain

Alternatively, the truth hurts. As a rule, the average Irish speaker in Ireland is substantially more educated than the average English speaker in Ireland. Just glance back at the quality of English from so many of the anti-Irish brigade.

What truth? I have a bachelor of science degree, so why on earth would I feel inferior to someone who can speak a language like Irish? That's just laughable. I wouldn't crow too much about the quality of people's language either. The Gaelic language in its current form is a bastard child of many different dialects with plenty of English words shoehorned into Gaelic. It bears little resemblance to its original pure form.

Monoglot anglophones who think the world revolves around Britain and British culture possess a myopia which makes them a uniquely intellectually repellant bunch indeed. Irish speakers, in sharp contrast, can move between both worlds (and in many cases, other languages) with a confidence and cultural appreciation unknown to the anti-Irish lobby whose singular achievement is in defining themselves by what they are against rather than what they are in favour of.

Over here we go again with your chip on your shoulder against Britain. It might make some of you Gaelic speakers, but all that xenophobia that the language is rooted in can be quite a turnoff. I cringe every time I hear people like Gerry Adams speaking a few words of Gaelic for fear he might be confused with a British person.

The fact is I certainly don't feel any less Irish just because I cannot speak some bastardized version of a dead language. Just the same way I don't feel any less Irish for being an atheist rather than a staunch Catholic. I have never danced at my local crossroads nor worn and Aran jumper for that matter.

Irish is here to stay at the centre of Irish life. Get over this cultural fanaticism and bitterness which has marked the English tradition in Ireland for some centuries now.

I think anyone with a sense of history knows that Irish has been on life support for the last 150 years, despite 120 years of attempting to revive it. For all the money that has been spent, there are now less Irish speakers than there were even 20 years ago.

And before you rant on any further, I have no problems with people wanting to speak Gaelic. Even though I can see no practical benefit in learning it, I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone the right to do so. In fact with a little prodding, I don't even mind funding things like Gaelic newspapers that nobody actually buys or TV stations that virtually no one watches. My only problem is people aren't allowed to have a *choice* in the matter. Irish should never have been made compulsory in schools. That policy has been entirely counterproductive and has obviously failed miserably. Perhaps if you stopped trying to shove the language down peoples throats, they might actually develop a better appreciation of it.

eddyc

Rebelheart wrote: »

Alternatively, the truth hurts. As a rule, the average Irish speaker in Ireland is substantially more educated than the average English speaker in Ireland. Just glance back at the quality of English from so many of the anti-Irish brigade.

Monoglot anglophones who think the world revolves around Britain and British culture possess a myopia which makes them a uniquely intellectually repellant bunch indeed. Irish speakers, in sharp contrast, can move between both worlds (and in many cases, other languages) with a confidence and cultural appreciation unknown to the anti-Irish lobby whose singular achievement is in defining themselves by what they are against rather than what they are in favour of.

Irish is here to stay at the centre of Irish life. Get over this cultural fanaticism and bitterness which has marked the English tradition in Ireland for some centuries now.

If Irish is at the centre of Irish life which you seem to believe why is it that most people still choose to use English everyday?
Even though there is a vast amount of support for those who want to learn it why don't most people speak it?
Why do we need state run institutions to promote what you say is at the centre of our culture?

Irish is not the centre of our culture now.
It was the language most people used to speak on the island of Ireland hundreds of years ago.

You seem be living in the past and you also seem to be a bit bigoted against british culture, people who don't support the language revival and people who only speak english.

Irish culture is not something that happened centuries ago that we have to revive, it's still going and in it's present form it's mostly done with English language books, music, plays etc.. still Irish just not with the Irish language.
What is wrong with that?

Rebelheart

Aard wrote: »

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, which comes through in your aggressive, assumptive posts.

Indeed. I must remember to just accept the double standards and cultural intolerance of the anti-Irish lobby and then I'll be a fine upstanding, well balanced (on the chip front) individual, it appears.

MysticalRain

Daithinski wrote: »

I don't think I'm superior, I was merely pointing out that some people may feel inferior because they can't speak Irish.

Its non Irish speakers themselves who say things like "Irish is too hard, I did it for 14 years and only know how to ask to go to the toilet"

Yet they may be perfectly able to learn German, French Spanish etc.

!

And that's great that you mastered a subject that was difficult to learn (although part of the difficulty is really screwed up way it is taught, but that's another story). But I have never in my life met someone who felt "inferior" just because they didn't learn Irish. For most people Irish is just an irrelevant subject that they never had any use for. If there is any envy, it is for people who learned skills like maths or science. The kind of skills that lead directly to a potentially high-paying job.

Now that you mention it, maybe I should feel superior because I mastered a language that other people found extremely difficult. Hooray for me!

Great. Now does someone who studied computer science get to feel superior to you just because you never mastered the arcane aspects of some obscure computer language?

Aard

Why do you think I'm part of the "anti-Irish" lobby? I'm staunchly "pro-Irish", but I'm also pragmatic. To paraphrase what somebody said above, just because I don't share your views, does not mean that I'm "anti-Irish". This is a label frequently used in order to make out that I, and others like me, am demonising the Irish language and Irish speakers. We're not.

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

My ancestors came here 800 years ago....


You're the one trying to change the traditions of quite a few million English-speaking Irish people.

Indeed. Then, your claim that your ancestors did not speak Irish is unfounded and, by any objective standard, dishonest. Unless you are now going to produce an 800-year-old family tree?

NewDubliner wrote: »

You're the one trying to change the traditions of quite a few million English-speaking Irish people.

When you produce evidence for this amazing family which lived here for 800 years without speaking Irish (never mind intermarrying) as their native language then I will start to treat you seriously. In the meantime, your claims would be given no credence by any professional Irish historian and are the work of an overly imaginative mind bent upon replacing historical fact with some Spenserian fantasy (and that's being unkind to Spenser, who lamented that the Normans had abandoned French and English for Irish)

dlofnep

I suppose a bit of analysis is in order. In order to determine if the costs of the Irish language is worth it, we should explain why. I'll give an overview of why I feel the Irish language is of importance to Ireland, and why I feel that it should be taught. This is solely my opinion, and is purely subjective - I will try to remain as impartial as possible.

Why is Irish important to Ireland

The Irish Government states the following.

The Government believes that the Irish language is of particular importance for the people, society and culture of Ireland. As a spoken community language, Irish is unique to this country and is, therefore, of crucial importance to the identity of the Irish people and to world heritage.

Source: http://www.pobail.ie/en/IrishLanguage/StatementontheIrishLanguage2006/file,7802,en.pdf

I think we can all agree, that the Irish language is unique to Ireland and remains a fundamental aspect of traditional Irish culture. It is certainly a luring element in certain aspects of tourism. One could look at the drawing power Oideas Gael has to Gleann Cholm Cille and other various Gaeltachtaí across the country.

Why Irish should receive funding

If we are to remove the fact that it is legally our first language (along with English), or even the sentimental aspects that the language has on many people - I feel that the Irish language requires funding to ensure it's survival.

So this presses the question, do you want the Irish language to survive, or to die? Since this is purely subjective, I can only give my views on it.

I want the Irish language to survive, so I certainly feel that it warrants funding. The reason why it requires funding to survive is outlined in many texts, such as Joshua Fishman's writings on reversing language shift - where he explains the importance of compulsory education, the promotion of the language within communities, the use of the language within the media and state bodies and assisting in maintaining the strength of language communities in order to reverse language shift.

Since the Government has continously stated that they are firmly behind supporting the Irish language, the language is supported at the highest levels. Moreover, there has never really been an anti-Irish movement in the history of this state, but there have been numerous pro-Irish movements. That to me tells me that the will of those in support of the Irish language is stronger than the will of those who are against it.

I feel that most pay lip service to their views on message boards, or over a drunken conversation - but would never actually make a move on removal of the Irish language. The opposite is true for Irish language supporters, who routinely get together in support of the language through protests, marches, events, creation of conversational groups and classes. This is very easy to verify and is very visible across the state.

So at a community level, there is certainly support for the Irish language. Any polls I have seen over the years have always demonstrated support for the Irish language. Those who protest support of the language always appear to be in the minority.

Should there be accountability for funding?

Like any other state-funded aspect of Ireland, I agree with many people that there should be accountability for funding, and cost-benefit analysis should be taken. More efficient and cost-effective translation services should be put in place, however - the removal of these services would be in conflict with Irish as an official language.

I don't think that language supporters and language antagonists could ever come together on the level of funding the Irish language should receive. If we were to break down the population into three categories - Those who firmly support the language, those who firmly oppose the language, and those who neither firmly support or oppose the language - I think we'd find the number of those who firmly oppose it were very minimal.

Education

If we are to suppose that the majority of the people support mandatory Irish education, then we have to ask the question - Why does the current curriculum not work?

In my opinion, I feel that the Irish language curriculum does not focus enough on the conversational aspect of the language and instead wastes too much time on grammatical aspects, and literature. I firmly believe that heavy focus on conversational Irish, including a subject taught through Irish for the duration of primary school would create a great base for students going into secondary. Following this protocol through secondary would leave with a very high level of proficient speakers, who is part in parcel of my next question.

Use of Irish in modern society

The lack of Irish speakers outside of the Gaeltachtaí is due to a number of reasons, from what I've seen. Firstly, there is the educational issue. Most people just don't have the ability to speak Irish proficiently. But that however, does not stop them from speaking it at a basic or intermediate level.

So you have to ask yourself - why is it so rare to see Irish spoken at basic or intermediate levels? In my opinion, I believe it is out of fear. I have noticed this over my last 3 years as an Irish conversational group organiser, and current learner myself. People are very afraid to speak the Irish language, out of fear of making a mistake. They doubt their ability, and feel that their level of Irish just isn't good enough to begin to use it. They feel that they would do it a dis-service, or might be chastised by trying to use it; But the opposite is true.

When I first started learning the language, I often found myself afraid of trying to say something, out of fear of making a mess of it and looking stupid. I quickly found that my initial fear was unfounded, and that Irish speakers were more than happy to help with a translation, and didn't actually care if you made a mistake.

The real issue is confidence. An example I often use is a Spanish speaker, coming to Ireland speaking English. They might often question you if their English is ok, but you continously re-assurre them that their English is perfect, and become quizzical as to why they might feel that their English isn't good enough. The spanish speaker might mix up a few words, or a few tenses - But you really don't care, and sometimes don't even notice it.

I would just like to say that Irish is a very relevant aspect of my daily life, and it is in most part because I have allowed it to. Many of my friends are Irish speakers, and I have the chance to attend a conversational group ever week to reinforce that relevance. For those who say that Irish is useless, is not being fair to the language. It is another medium of communication which both the Government, and the majority of the people of Ireland feel is a fundamental aspect of Irish culture, and is unique to us. It is becoming much more popular in the past decade, and continues to grow and will continue to do so. It's no suprise that this coincides with the likes of the birth of TG4, and more Irish language support from the Government.

Sin é.

bonkey

Its all getting a bit terse around here.

Lets lock the thread for 24 hours, and see if calmer heads can prevail afterwards.

Please don't start another thread in the meantime to try and get around this.

bonkey

So...lets see if things have calmed down a bit...

NewDubliner

bonkey wrote: »

So...lets see if things have calmed down a bit...

OK, a story today in the Irish Independent states that 'Foinse' will actuially be given away free with the Indo every week.

Does anyone know if how much government money is being paid to the Sir Anthony O'Reilly's newspaper and if the job of printing and giving away 'Foinse', a newspaper that less then 4,500 people want to buy, was put out to tender?

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

OK, a story today in the Irish Independent states that 'Foinse' will actuially be given away free with the Indo every week.

Does anyone know if how much government money is being paid to the Sir Anthony O'Reilly's newspaper and if the job of printing and giving away 'Foinse', a newspaper that less then 4,500 people want to buy, was put out to tender?

Are you aware that Foras na Gaeilge does not fund Foinse? Why don't you contact the people there and ask them how the paper is being supported instead of hypothesizing?

NewDubliner

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you aware that Foras na Gaeilge does not fund Foinse?

From RTE:

....Ferdie Mac An Fháiligh, CEO of Foras na Gaeilge, said he very much regretted Mr Ó Céidigh's decision.

He said Foinse had €618,000 in reserves, and that the Foras offer of a €1.4m contract, €355,000 a year, amounted to a significant increase.

So does this mean that the taxpayers have just saved 1.4m and that 'Foinse' is now privately funded? If it's true, that's great news.

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

So does this mean that the taxpayers have just saved 1.4m and that 'Foinse' is now privately funded? If it's true, that's great news.

I'm more interested in your historical support for your (patently absurd) claim that your "ancestors" never spoke Irish as their native language despite having lived here, according to you, for 800 years.

As for funding languages in this state, there are more than enough taxpayers in this state who are willing to fund the Irish language. You evidently do not like that reality, a point which testifies to the ethical soundness and open-mindedness of these Irish taxpayers.

I am more concerned with this state paying hundreds of millions of euro to supply English language classes to immigrants who, should they fail to attend these classes, are liable to be refused their work permits. Nine out of ten of the people in those classes do not want to be there; they attend because they have to sign in for work permit reasons and the English language schools are making a fortune out of this massive subsidy from the Irish taxpayer. Now, that's what I call forcing a language, your beloved English language, down somebody's throat at the expense of the taxpayer. That money could be spent on more noble things like our health system.

How do you defend this waste of taxpayers' money, NewDubliner?

NewDubliner

Rebelheart wrote: »

I'm more interested in your historical support for your (patently absurd) claim that your "ancestors" never spoke Irish as their native language despite having lived here, according to you, for 800 years.

What does it matter if some of my ancestors did speak Irish? They're dead. Are you telling me that becuse of a possibility that some of my ancestors, 400 years ago, might have spoken Irish (or maybe not...)... I am obliged to speak Irish?

Rebelheart wrote: »

As for funding languages in this state, there are more than enough taxpayers in this state who are willing to fund the Irish language.

That's questionable in terms of the amount of money they'll tolerate being spent on Irish, how the spending is being hidden in government accounts and and the true number of people who support the spending. The only 'evidence' on the latter has been some very dodgy 'surveys', commissioned and paid for by the Irish language industry.

Rebelheart wrote: »

How do you defend this waste of taxpayers' money, NewDubliner?

Tell me, how is 'Foinse' funded?

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

What does it matter if some of my ancestors did speak Irish? They're dead. Are you telling me that becuse of a possibility that some of my ancestors, 400 years ago, might have spoken Irish (or maybe not...)... I am obliged to speak Irish?

No, he is refuting a claim of your ancestor's not speaking Irish.

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's questionable in terms of the amount of money they'll tolerate being spent on Irish, how the spending is being hidden in government accounts and and the true number of people who support the spending. The only 'evidence' on the latter has been some very dodgy 'surveys', commissioned and paid for by the Irish language industry.

So, where is your evidence to suggest that the Irish public is growing intolerant to Irish language funding? I'd love to see it.

NewDubliner wrote: »

Tell me, how is 'Foinse' funded?

Why don't you tell us? You're the one who brought the topic up.

NewDubliner

dlofnep wrote: »

No, he is refuting a claim of your ancestor's not speaking Irish.

He was originally calling my right to question public spending.

dlofnep wrote: »

So, where is your evidence to suggest that the Irish public is growing intolerant to Irish language funding? I'd love to see it.

That's not how it works. Spending has to be justified. Produce credible facts. Let's start with how much in total Irish is costing and how much it will cost following full implementation of the OLA. Then, lets look at how the taxpayer has been informed of this. The Irish taxpayer is growing intolerant to wasteful, unproductive expenditure.

dlofnep wrote: »

Why don't you tell us? You're the one who brought the topic up.

I was hoping that the Irish language supporters would show some accountability for all the money given to them. At least, acknowledging when it comes from the hard-pressed taxpayer. Instead, you flatly denied that 'Foinse' is funded by Foras na Gaeilge, despite there being overwhelming evidence that this is most certainly the case.

We're still left with the astonishing fact that the taxpayer is paying €366,000 funding a newspaper that only 4,000 people were committed enough to pay for. That's €91.50 per reader!:eek: Now, it's being given away with a right-wing newspaper.

Here's an interesting statistic from the Tribune

The average wage at Foras na Gaeilge, an Irish-language body, came in at €68,976 across the 42 people who were employed at the agency. The total wage bill there was €2.897m.

Where does 'Foras na Gaeilge' get its funding?

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

He was originally calling my right to question public spending into question.

Wrong, he was responding to a claim of your ancestors not speaking Irish.

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's not how it works. Spending has to be justified. Produce credible facts. Let's start with how much in total Irish is costing and how much it will cost following full implementation of the OLA. Then, lets look at how the taxpayer has been informed of this. The Irish taxpayer is growing intolerant to wasteful, unproductive expenditure.

Actually it is how it works. The Irish public aren't stupid. It just doesn't suit your argument that the majority of the people in Ireland don't actually share the same negative overtones towards Irish views as you. If they really had an issue with the Irish language being supported at state level, then there would be a number of movements to bring it to attention. But there is not, but there are 1000's of Irish language activists on the beat every month promoting the language. That says it all.

NewDubliner wrote: »

I was hoping that the Irish language supporters would show some accountability for all the money given to them. At least, acknowledging when it comes from the hard-pressed taxpayer.

You're the one who posed the question - you should at least have an answer. What you have cunningly tried to do is make an accusation, without actually knowing the answer, and the tried to divert the attention by asking us to answer you as to how Foinse is funded.

NewDubliner wrote: »

Instead, you flatly denied that 'Foinse' is funded by Foras na Gaeilge, despite there being overwhelming evidence that this is most certainly the case.

No, it is not the case. Foinse was funded by Foras na Gaeilge, but is currently not as far as I understand. How exactly have I denied that it is funded by Foras na Gaeilge? That would imply that it is currently funded by the organisation, but unbeknownst to you; they did not come to terms with a contractual agreement, and thus lost funding. If I'm wrong, then please correct me.

Not that there is actually anything wrong with state support for an Irish language newspaper, as part of their efforts to promote the language and create an environment that spurs on language revival.

NewDubliner wrote: »

We're still left with the astonishing fact that the taxpayer is paying €366,000 funding a newspaper that only 4,000 people were committed enough to pay for. That's €91.50 per reader!:eek: Now, it's being given away with a right-wing newspaper.

Foinse is not currently supported by Foras na Gaeilge. Foinse was operating at a profit for years by the way, and only operated at a loss for a single year during economic hardship.

NewDubliner wrote: »

Where does 'Foras na Gaeilge' get its funding?

It is a government supported organization. Once again, it is funded as part of the official languages act, with intent to promote the Irish language and revive it's use. This is perfectly clear. What exactly is it you don't understand?

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

What does it matter if some of my ancestors did speak Irish?

It matters everything precisely because you claimed yesterday, and I quote:
'I don't speak Irish and my ancestors did not either' (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63020306&postcount=625, in response to another poster)

It was you, and you alone, who brought up ancestral language.

NewDubliner wrote: »

He was originally calling my right to question public spending.

Please desist from lying. Your above claim that your ancestors did not speak Irish was in response to another poster. Everybody here can see that by following the above link to your post.

In response to that historically illiteracy, my sole concern was to challenge your claim that your ancestors, who according to you have lived in Ireland for 800 years, did not speak Irish. That was a lie, something which you, when challenged, have finally conceded with the words: 'What does it matter if some of my ancestors did speak Irish?'

Next time, only make claims you can stand over. Trying to package/distort the past to fit your prejudices in 2009 is quite pathetic. Thank you.

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

Where does 'Foras na Gaeilge' get its funding?

Where do English language schools in this state get their funding? How much money does this state subsidise them by?

You'd think that with all your concern (mar dhea) about Foras na Gaeilge you would at least engage in a bit of learner autonomy and do your own research to support your prejudice.

NewDubliner

Rebelheart wrote: »

It matters everything precisely because you claimed yesterday, and I quote:

In response to:

rebelheart wrote:

If that is indeed your situation, then it seems rather arrogant to consciously come to a country and expect it and its traditions to change because it doesn't suit you

It was you who brought up the matter of ethnic background. The implication of your original challenge and your obsession with whether or not any of my Irish ancestors (among them a number of knights of the realm, sheriffs, RIC and army officers, honest workmen and a Lord Mayor) might at some time in history spoken a few words of Irish, is that in your view, to challenge Irish-language spending, one must have an ethnic background that you approve of.

Rebelheart wrote: »

my sole concern was to challenge your claim that your ancestors...

Your sole concern is to avoid awkward questions about the funding of Irish language activities.

How much is spent on 'Foinse'? Where does the money come from?

Who funds 'Foras na Gaeilge'?

Grudaire

NewDubliner wrote: »

How much is spent on 'Foinse'? Where does the money come from?

Who funds 'Foras na Gaeilge'?

Tbf you're the one who made an assertation about it, and rather then back it up when questioned you immediatly attacked me, saying that:

NewDubliner wrote: »

Is it your position that the new Foinse is being produced without the €355,000 mentioned above? If so, it's great news for the independence of the Irish language movement.

("While I believe that they prob are getting money can you back it up please (Especially the amount)?" - what I had said)

Can YOU back up what YOU said?

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

How much is spent on 'Foinse'? Where does the money come from?

nuacht@foinse.ie - E-mail them and ask them if you're that concerned. Then we can move on with the discussion. Nobody here is entirely sure of their funding arrangements. My understanding as I have previously explaiend is that they were funded by Foras na Gaeilge, but have since lost a contract due to inability to come to terms with the said contract.

Let us know what they say in the e-mail.

NewDubliner

Cliste wrote: »

Can YOU back up what YOU said?

Yes, & already done in a reply to dlofnep.

From RTE

...Ferdie Mac An Fháiligh, CEO of Foras na Gaeilge, said he very much regretted Mr Ó Céidigh's decision.

He said Foinse had €618,000 in reserves, and that the Foras offer of a €1.4m contract, €355,000 a year, amounted to a significant increase.

So, the company that published and sold 'Foinse' was offered €355,000 by Foras na Gaeilge and turn it down saying it was not enough. That same company only managed to sell 4,000 copies at a cost to the taxpayer of over €90 euro per reader.

Now, we learn that a right-wing newspaper will be distributing 'Foinse' free--of-charge every Wednesday. So, it begs the question that newspaper in question is being paid to give 'Foinse' away, probably for €355,000, while the editors of 'Foinse' claim it is privately funded.

'Foras' appears be a government funded quango. Although I found it quite difficult to learn this from its website.

Strangely, the Irish-language supporters, despite their deeply claimed knowledge things Irish, have no idea about how government money is spent on Irish or how much, but, perversely, consider that this somehow qualifies them to defend spending on Irish.

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

In response to:
It was you who brought up the matter of ethnic background.

Stop lying: just stop lying. You, and you alone, brought up ancestral/ethnic background in this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63020306&postcount=625

That was post number 625. In that post you claimed, of your own volition, that none of your ancestors spoke Irish or verbatim: 'I don't speak Irish and my ancestors did not either.' That post had nothing to do with anything I posted. It was as a result of that post that I responded. Stating that your post 625 was in response to my post number 635 (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63021424&postcount=635) as you just stated in post 657 (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63045807&postcount=657) is patently idiotic and, at best, plainly dishonest.

If you are struggling with honesty, at least try and display some measure of intellectual coherency here. Thank you.