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If we had German levels of state efficiency...
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15-10-2009 5:23pm#1Look at the statistics :
4.2 million Irish, 330k public sector works; 7.9% of the population.
82million Germans, 4.5 million PS workers (according to their own statistics office), 5.5% of the population.
If we had the same efficiency / ratio as the germans we would have / be paying only 231,000 public servants, a saving of 99,000 public servants, @ the c.s.o. average of 50k a year each , total saving € 4,950,000,000 ( obviously gross pay , not net pay ).
If those 99,000 unproductive public servants were productively employed ( for example, making cars for export , or entertaining tourists, or making leprecauns for sale , or whatever gathers revenue ) think of the revenue that could be gathered for the government. Givers to the govt coffers instead of takers.
Bear in mind the Germans have larger armed forces than we do per head, so we could save the expenditure on a few thousand people there too.
Thats how we could save 5 billion a year, and still pay our government employees as much as we do, ....of course our govt would still have to borrow something like 20 billion this year just to keep going...so if we cut the pay of the remaining 231,000 public servants then we may achieve savings of 7 or 8 billion.
Of course critics will argue that owing to the small size of the country / lack of economy of scale we will need slightly more than the 231,000 public servants.
If / when public sector numbers are reduced, obviously other things will have to be looked at...eg German teachers get only 6 weeks summer holidays,...our hse staff take 19 sickies a year etc. Its time our taxpayers got efficiency + value for money.0
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Look at the statistics :
Bear in mind the Germans have larger armed forces than we do per head, so we could save the expenditure on a few thousand people there too.
Bear in mind they also have conscription too, I would nearly rejoin just to have a day of induction for the new intake People like... I don't know... I suppose people who have nothing to do except spend their days/hours contributing to threads/forums that constantly verbally attack the average PS worker!!:D 0 -
NewDubliner wrote: »Can you give a breakdown of the German PS workers, by organisation and a link to your source?
I'd like to know if you're comparing like with like.
Just on that note:
That's not readily available. Due to the federal nature of Germany, public sector workers either work for the state directly (eg. soldiers), for the Bundesland (eg. teachers) or even the county or town council (eg. town clerks).
A lot of organisations transcendent that structure. In the police for example there is state police and Bundesland police, the same goes for customs and revenue. Depending which Bundesland is the employer, payment terms and other conditions may even differ for the same job even though there is a pay scale that is supposed to be universal.
Also there is the differentiation between civil servants and public sector workers which makes the collation of data even more difficult.
In short ...I couldn't find anything on who works where
http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/EN/Content/Statistics/FinanzenSteuern/PublicService/PublicServicePersonnel/Aktuell,templateId=renderPrint.psml
but here's a little picture to add some colour to this post
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Just on that note:
That's not readily available. Due to the federal nature of Germany, public sector workers either work for the state directly (eg. soldiers), for the Bundesland (eg. teachers) or even the county or town council (eg. town clerks).
A lot of organisations transcendent that structure. In the police for example there is state police and Bundesland police, the same goes for customs and revenue. Depending which Bundesland is the employer, payment terms and other conditions may even differ for the same job even though there is a pay scale that is supposed to be universal.
Also there is the differentiation between civil servants and public sector workers which makes the collation of data even more difficult.
In short ...I couldn't find anything on who works where
http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/EN/Content/Statistics/FinanzenSteuern/PublicService/PublicServicePersonnel/Aktuell,templateId=renderPrint.psml
but here's a little picture to add some colour to this post
Well 1 thing that is blindingly obvious from the above graph is that in the 10 years to 07 they have cut public servants by what 650k or 12.5%. And it would appear that they stratigically decided to lower the number of full time positions as it is a nice steady decline. What way has the graph gone for Ireland in those 10 years? I think that highlights why Germany will pull out of recesion about 3 years before we will
I can't see why we can't strive to have a similar ratio of PS to Population as Germany, They provide the same (better?) services that our guys provide and yes while there may be some economies of scale under absolutely no circumstances can that explain the huge difference. How can this be justified??
We need a dramatic cut in public sector number, get it down to 300k asap and then have a 5 year plan to get it to 250-260k. Its pure madness to have so many PS in this country0 -
Shorter holidays actually save lots of money on a household level, I guess I don't need to explain.
Actually, you do. The thread is about cutting costs in the public sector, how is keeping schools open longer going to cut costs?Not to mention that the children learn more. Irish holidays/days off are among the longest in Europe, arent' t they?
Instruction time is what matters. We are actually better than the Germans in that respect.
It's a siginificant step back knowledge wise for a kid to have such a long break. They actually know much less than they knew at the end of previous year when they come back.
Yes, and German children also suffer from a 6 week break.
They 'actually know much less than they knew at the end of previous year when they come back''. They would be better off having a one week break.
You are just making a general argument to shorten holidays without any real thought.
I would be in favour of a different holiday structure myself, based on educational grounds. But that is nothing to do with cutting costs in the public sector.0 -
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Actually, you do. The thread is about cutting costs in the public sector, how is keeping schools open longer going to cut costs?
Instruction time is what matters. We are actually better than the Germans in that respect.
Yes, and German children also suffer from a 6 week break.
They 'actually know much less than they knew at the end of previous year when they come back''. They would be better off having a one week break.
You are just making a general argument to shorten holidays without any real thought.
I would be in favour of a different holiday structure myself, based on educational grounds. But that is nothing to do with cutting costs in the public sector.
How about ye keep yer 3 months summer holiday but don't CHARGE to supervise exams, CHARGE to correct exams, CHARGE to walk around a yard for half an hour, have mandatory seminars, conferences etc during the summer to improve education, teaching methods, the curriculum etc. They could do all of this and still have 6 weeks off in the summer
God know teachers are getting paid enough to have all this covered in their salary0 -
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