Anybody else sick of the trade unions?

MG

Viscosity wrote: »

Jack's main qualification appears to be his unparallelled ability to say worker with a stammer and a number of U's instead of an O.....w-w-w-w-w-wuuuuuurrrkers!

Workers? Ah so that's the word he keeps saying:D

gdael

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah but then again will you get a defined benefit pension plus unataxable lump sum when you retire ?
Maybe if I wasn't sitting on a decreasing pension fund, because the ar** fell out of the markets, and was going to get nice tax free lump sum on retirement then I mightn't feel bad taking a 7.5% levy.

Oh wait my wages haven't gone up in three years unlike the ones that were hit with the 7.5% levy.

I took an active role in where my pension was invested. Because of this it is not down at all. And i am very happy with my pension as it is. I would prefer it to a public sector pension any day.

Anyway the public sector pension should be abolished altogether.
Allow them to opt out of the public pension and to get the state pension instead.
Let them look after their own pensions like everyone else. Give them back the 15% or whatever they pay for their pension every month and let them put it in a private pension scheme, or even keep it if they dont want a pension.

People cant pay enough attention to their pension schemes. Most of the money gone on your pension will be fees that the managers get whether they make or lose money on it.
You cant just give your pension to some idiot whose money it isnt and expect them to take care of it for you. People who dont keep an eye on their own pensions are headed for trouble. Watch your pensions in future people. Lesson learned.

When have you asked for a raise last? If you are worth the money and have put yourself in a position where you have options then you have no need to be on a wage freeze for 3 years.

Joey the lips

No i love trade unions personally. But i think it disgraceful that a portion of my trade union subs goes to the labour party.

Dotsie~tmp

Theyre almost a private sector workers worst enemy if represented by them. More likely to negotiate you onto the dole queue with some redundency money instead of keeping a man in a job and a business open.

Taxipete29

Joey the lips wrote: »

No i love trade unions personally. But i think it disgraceful that a portion of my trade union subs goes to the labour party.

Why?

Pride Fighter

Joey the lips wrote: »

No i love trade unions personally. But i think it disgraceful that a portion of my trade union subs goes to the labour party.

I believe the figure is 60k. I also heard that this year is the last year ever it will be paid, Labour dont really need it, they can represent the interests of all workers without it.

brianthebard

Justind wrote: »

They're also putting plans through for a multi-million revamp of Liberty Hall. Perfect timing, eh?

As I said in one of the other many Union bashing threads, this should be seen as vital economic stimulus, providing business for builders, industries involved in the trade and tourism possibilities. Instead cause its the Unions it gets crapped on.

Anybody else sick of the Union bashers?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

brianthebard

The historic centre of Irish Trade Unionism and home of the ITGWU, forerunner of SIPTU? What's ironic about that?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

brianthebard

Nope still not seeing the irony. But thanks for the heads up about the italics, that totally slipped by me! Man are you subtle.

Pride Fighter

brianthebard wrote: »

The historic centre of Irish Trade Unionism and home of the ITGWU, forerunner of SIPTU? What's ironic about that?

Donegalfella is a far right winger. He thinks that a group that protects the lower paid workers and advocates capping of the pay of those who are paid too high is against liberty. I think the opposite. Donegalfella thinks there should be a 0% tax rate and that everything should be privatised. I'd disagree but respect his beliefs, and if I misrepresented Donegalfella in anyway I apologise.

Joey the lips

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Why?

you first

Taxipete. I take it your a taxi driver. I love unions for the reasons taxi driver unions have not managed to achieve yet.... Why? Becuase when taxi drvers go on strike it generally only makes people have to spend longer getting to work etc.

But if the ESB goes on strike, No power. The waste collectors, no bin collections.

aoboa

thebman wrote: »

Unions are obsolete, we have good labor laws.

I can see the case for limited unions but as they stand negotiating talks with the government about workers pay they do not represent all the people they claim they as many have turned their back on unions because of their illogical attitudes in time of crisis.

We have good labour laws because of unions.
Your working hours, health and safety, in fact any protection you have in the workplace was brought to you by union action here and all over Europe.

For an example of what happens when people have no representation just think of the amount of people you know who are contracted to work a 39 hour week who regularly and voluntarily do way more hours for no more money because 'it's expected' of them. The laws you talk about do nothing to protect this person because they chose to do it. It's a simple example but a powerful one. I know people working 50 hour weeks, getting paid for 39 and thinking it's a great idea. These days it might be a good idea but this was over the last 10 years. And the majority of these peope hate unions. How insane is that?

If unions were to dissappear tomorrow everyone here who hates them would be begging for them back because their rights would be eroded overnight. What they have won for their members eventually become the norm for most people.

People need to stop getting annoyed about the brinkmanship and headline grabbing quotes in the Indo. They know the reality and understand that there are gonna be cuts. They're just trying to minimise the pain for their members.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

meglome

aoboa wrote: »

We have good labour laws because of unions.
Your working hours, health and safety, in fact any protection you have in the workplace was brought to you by union action here and all over Europe.

Well I'm no expert in the area but my understanding of this was the EU gave us most of these laws. So why do we need the unions now?

aoboa

meglome wrote: »

Well I'm no expert in the area but my understanding of this was the EU gave us most of these laws. So why do we need the unions now?

The EU recommendations came from decades of union actions all over Europe to reduce the working week and keep the workplace safe and fair for workers.
Don't forget that the big EU countries which drove all the EU laws are still the most unionised and still the ones which have the most respect for unions.

33% God

meglome wrote: »

Well I'm no expert in the area but my understanding of this was the EU gave us most of these laws. So why do we need the unions now?

The EU simply moved the pen on paper, and only after it was made impossible for them to ignore by the trade union movement. The Trade union movement is also the main thing maintaining those laws.

aoboa

meglome wrote: »

Well I'm no expert in the area but my understanding of this was the EU gave us most of these laws. So why do we need the unions now?

Also the law isn't really a protection for a lone worker.
If you work for a multinational and get sacked for something that wasn't your fault it's David Vs Goliath. In these cases most people chose to go quietly.
Don't forget a company can manage you out 'legally' too and avoid the whole law thing

Taxipete29

Joey the lips wrote: »

you first

Taxipete. I take it your a taxi driver. I love unions for the reasons taxi driver unions have not managed to achieve yet.... Why? Becuase when taxi drvers go on strike it generally only makes people have to spend longer getting to work etc.

But if the ESB goes on strike, No power. The waste collectors, no bin collections.

Thats not what I asked.Why is it disgraceful that a portion of your subs are funded to Labour.

Just to clarify, I have been a member of several unions over the years but I have never been or never will be a member of a Taxi union. These guys give unions a bad name. Self-employed people cant be in a union

Arnold Layne

aoboa wrote: »

Also the law isn't really a protection for a lone worker.
If you work for a multinational and get sacked for something that wasn't your fault it's David Vs Goliath. In these cases most people chose to go quietly.
Don't forget a company can manage you out 'legally' too and avoid the whole law thing

From my experience from working in non-union multinationals and small to medium Irish firms, it is the SMEs that will try to shaft you in relation to Employee Rights. I have never worked in a unionised company but we have the Employment Legislation because of our membership of the EU.

What have the Irish Unions achieved that is not covered by EU Legislation/Directives, apart from their leaders sitting on the boards of the Central Bank, Aer Lingus, Fas, etc?

aoboa

Arnold Layne wrote: »

From my experience from working in non-union multinationals and small to medium Irish firms, it is the SMEs that will try to shaft you in relation to Employee Rights. I have never worked in a unionised company but we have the Employment Legislation because of our membership of the EU.

What have the Irish Unions achieved that is not covered by EU Legislation/Directives, apart from their leaders sitting on the boards of the Central Bank, Aer Lingus, Fas, etc?

Once again, the EU directives were forced by EU unions.

Forcing the 39 hour week to be implimented for a start. It was an EU law but not an irish law and afaik it's still not Irish law. I think the Irish law is 48 hours. Unions police these things and they become common practice.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

We follow a lot of EU employment directives/laws and again, afaik, most are not in Irish law.

Arnold Layne

aoboa wrote: »

Once again, the EU directives were forced by EU unions.

Forcing the 39 hour week to be implimented for a start. It was an EU law but not an irish law and afaik it's still not Irish law. I think the Irish law is 48 hours. Unions police these things and they become common practice.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

We follow a lot of EU employment directives/laws and again, afaik, most are not in Irish law.

So, Irish Unions aren't doing their job if workers in the EU work 39 hours maximum, whereas Irish Workers can work up to 48 hours.

O'Connor, Begg & McLoone shouldn't earn the big salaries if they couldn't negotiate the 39 hour week during the decade of the "boom". That should have been their benchmark for their salaries and directorships on boards!

aoboa

Arnold Layne wrote: »

So, Irish Unions aren't doing their job if workers in the EU work 39 hours maximum, whereas Irish Workers can work up to 48 hours.

O'Connor, Begg & McLoone shouldn't earn the big salaries if they couldn't negotiate the 39 hour week during the decade of the "boom". That should have been their benchmark for their salaries and directorships on boards!

Jesus, the Irish unions forced it to be implimented here - in 1991/2. Ireland is a menber of the EU as are our unions.
They are necessary - you enjoy working conditions here that are not in Irish law because of Irish unions.

thebman

aoboa wrote: »

We have good labour laws because of unions.
Your working hours, health and safety, in fact any protection you have in the workplace was brought to you by union action here and all over Europe.

For an example of what happens when people have no representation just think of the amount of people you know who are contracted to work a 39 hour week who regularly and voluntarily do way more hours for no more money because 'it's expected' of them. The laws you talk about do nothing to protect this person because they chose to do it. It's a simple example but a powerful one. I know people working 50 hour weeks, getting paid for 39 and thinking it's a great idea. These days it might be a good idea but this was over the last 10 years. And the majority of these peope hate unions. How insane is that?

If unions were to dissappear tomorrow everyone here who hates them would be begging for them back because their rights would be eroded overnight. What they have won for their members eventually become the norm for most people.

People need to stop getting annoyed about the brinkmanship and headline grabbing quotes in the Indo. They know the reality and understand that there are gonna be cuts. They're just trying to minimise the pain for their members.

Yes that is great but the simple fact seems to be that they aren't required at the moment.

Unions are mostly just the people in companies contributing so a union can be formed at any time if employee's start taking the piss again.

Why do we constantly need unions? What exactly are they trying to achieve? I don't see much left to achieve.

The thing is with companies that ask you to work overtime for free is that when you need an hour off early one day, the manager will usually oblige without any questions. Its only when free overtime becomes a daily occurrence and they are reluctant to give you time off that you have a problem.

These companies usually have high staff turn over anyway because they treat people badly and they also won't get the best staff but people willing to put up with this attitude.

gurramok

brianthebard wrote: »

The historic centre of Irish Trade Unionism and home of the ITGWU, forerunner of SIPTU? What's ironic about that?

Where are they getting the millions to demolish and rebuild it?

Couldn't that slush fund be better used to support the 160,000 workers who have lost their jobs in the private sector?

Pride Fighter

gurramok wrote: »

Where are they getting the millions to demolish and rebuild it?

Couldn't that slush fund be better used to support the 160,000 workers who have lost their jobs in the private sector?

The main Unions have a huge war chest that the saved during the boom years. I have heard they have enough to build a 20 storey tower on liberty hall as well as having 50 million euro in additional reserves for strike pay. Unlike Fianna Fail, they did not squander their money when there was a boom. And with the reserve of strike pay the Unions could cripple this country if they so wished.

gurramok

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The main Unions have a huge war chest that the saved during the boom years. I have heard they have enough to build a 20 storey tower on liberty hall as well as having 50 million euro in additional reserves for strike pay. Unlike Fianna Fail, they did not squander their money when there was a boom. And with the reserve of strike pay the Unions could cripple this country if they so wished.

Wonder did they keep that money in Irish banks

So, we are hostages to a mafia then.:mad:

Pride Fighter

gurramok wrote: »

Wonder did they keep that money in Irish banks

So, we are hostages to a mafia then.:mad:

If the government try to cut pay and numbers in the public sector expect the country to be crippled for weeks if not months. The Unions will have to be engaged on cutbacks.

thebman

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If the government try to cut pay and numbers in the public sector expect the country to be crippled for weeks if not months. The Unions will have to be engaged on cutbacks.

So a mafia, yeah we get it. Fooking talk to us or we'll bankrupt the country. Charming!