Daily Mail go for Gately

Stark

Warfi wrote: »

It'd probably help also if you posted the tweet by Stephen Fry that you're referring to too.

This was the worst I could find: http://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/4913531605

Warfi

Stark wrote: »

This was the worst I could find: http://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/4913531605

Why do you think that's bad? I don't see anything wrong with what he's said there.

walshb

I must say, the church and surroundings in Sherrif St looked fab today, fair play to all who participated to do a great job.

I have read over a lot of the posts. Seriously, folks need to calm down a bit.
Just because some query the circumstances of the chaps death that gives nobody the right to make out anyone is homophobic or a gay basher or whatever else..

Lets be clear. Gately's death had ZERO to do with his sexual orientation, but it may have had something to do with his lifestyle, drink, binges or whatever.

Also, he may have had a bad heart and simply succumbed to heart failure.

Now, I was lambasted earlier for stating an opinion about gay men.

I couldn't give a toss what sexual orientation a person is, as long as the person is a respectable and pleasant and decent skin, he/she gets the thumbs up from me. Gately seemed all of the above.

But to say that there is NO difference between the world of a gay man and a straight man is wrong. We may not like it, but gay men still have not completely fitted into society. There are still those who will discrimnate against them because they are gay. This is wrong, but it is not wrong or homophobic to simply state that their lifestyle and place in society is different.

Take for example the pub scene. Why if all were "equal" do gay men have pubs were they frequent and are known as "gay pubs."

I have seen many straight men and women being openly affectionate amongst a crowd and nobody bats and eyelid. I don't think gay men have come to that yet, and this is nothing to do with being homophobic, it's a reality.

I think we need to chill and relax without becoming so sensitive just because someone malkes a comment on a gay person. The whole homophobic, gay basher and bigoted cards thrown around because someone simply questions.
the lifestyles of gay people

Do I think Stephen died a lonely death? Well, considering the fact he was alone when he died, and that his partner was not with him, but possibly with another man, then YES, he died a lonely death. And this is nothing to do with him being gay. I would say the exact same if he was straight and alone whilst his wife or partner was possibly with another man

Warfi

walshb wrote: »

I think we need to chill and relax without becoming so sensitive just because someone malkes a comment on a gay person. The whole homophobic, gay basher and bigoted cards thrown around because someone simply questions.
the lifestyles of gay people

I don't think people are being too sensitive. Jan Moir used Stephen Gately's death as an excuse to be homophobic. If she wants to be homophobic, that's her business. However using a young man's death to get her point across was crass and disgusting to say the least.

efb

She was manipulating the situation to pour scorn on Civil Partnerships, that's homophobic, She was making very leading statements about a young man's death before he was buried, that's disrespectful.

I think it's fear of violence that has Gay Couples not openly express affection in public, (the violence is homophobia) and it is unfortunite that it can only be expressed without fear in Gay Bars. And they play the best music!

drkpower

walshb wrote: »

but it may have had something to do with his lifestyle, drink, binges or whatever.

walshb wrote: »

I would say the exact same if he was straight and alone whilst his wife or partner was possibly with another man

Yo continue to make these suggestions/inferences that
1. drink played a part in his death
2. his partner was sleeping with the friend

while the evidence is to the contrary.

Do you think it is appropriate for me to imply/suggest that you are, lets say, a member of the BNP? I dont have any evidence for that suggestion, but I presume that doesnt matter to you, does it?

walshb

efb wrote: »

She was manipulating the situation to pour scorn on Civil Partnerships, that's homophobic, She was making very leading statements about a young man's death before he was buried, that's disrespectful.

I think it's fear of violence that has Gay Couples not openly express affection in public, (the violence is homophobia) and it is unfortunite that it can only be expressed without fear in Gay Bars. And they play the best music!

I agree, but why are some throwing around the gay basher jibes simply because someone makes the claim that gay men have not fitted in completely to society? Hey, attacking someone for being gay is despicable, but it happens. Nobody is attacked for being straight, because it is seen as normal and natural. Now, folks may not lke it, but people do have a view that men with men is not normal.

Nobody can honestly say that men lusting after men is no different than
men lusting after women. The animal kingdom, which we are part of is predominantly male lusting after female. This isn't made up, it's fact.

Would I discriminate against gay men, no way. I take everyone as I see them.

But, if you want me to say that gay men are no different than straight men, then I don't thnk that is true. Doesn't mean at all that straight men are better people. It simply means that we are different.

walshb

drkpower wrote: »

Yo continue to make these suggestions/inferences that
1. drink played a part in his death
2. his partner was sleeping with the friend

while the evidence is to the contrary.

Do you think it is appropriate for me to imply/suggest that you are, lets say, a member of the BNP? I dont have any evidence for that suggestion, but I presume that doesnt matter to you, does it?

I don't believe Gately died whilst sober, NO. I do think that drink or whatever else played a part. Hey, it is possible that he just died with no alcohol realted, this can happen. But, I think that he was probably tanked with alcohol and simply his heart didn't deal with it and he died.

It can hapeen, and has happened to many folks. As for the partner and the Bulgarian, are you seriously telling me that folks aren't thinking about what was going on? I don't know and nobody knows but Cowles and the Bulgarian, and Stephen. Unfortunately, Stephen won't be telling anything and Cowles and the Bulgarian can say what they like. Dead men tell no tales.

BTW, wasn't Cowles a bully boy? Didn't he beat the crap out of Stephen before? Scumbag to do that.

Chinafoot

Stark wrote: »

Derren Brown said she was walking the tight rope between bitch and c*nt...

Justice Old Meal wrote: »

Yeah, I think it was the genius that is Charlie Brooker who said it first. I mean seriously, why would a magician make a circus-related joke? They're like mortal enemies.

Post #120 on this thread.

A man named Jon Blyth said it first. Charlie Brooker did a RT and Derren Brown did an RT from him.

efb

Would you think a similiar article re Gatti or Sutherland prior to their funerals be acceptable, given the 'unnatural' circumstances surrounding their deaths?

Also lots of animals have same-sex sex

dr.bollocko

walshb wrote: »

I don't believe Gately died whilst sober, NO. I do think that drink or whatever else played a part. Hey, it is possible that he just died with no alcohol realted, this can happen. But, I think that he was probably tanked with alcohol and simply his heart didn't deal with it and he died.

It can hapeen, and has happened to many folks. As for the partner and the Bulgarian, are you seriously telling me that folks aren't thinking about what was going on? I don't know and nobody knows but Cowles and the Bulgarian, and Stephen. Unfortunately, Stephen won't be telling anything and Cowles and the Bulgarian can say what they like. Dead men tell no tales.

BTW, wasn't Cowles a bully boy? Didn't he beat the crap out of Stephen before? Scumbag to do that.

Had it up to here with your generalisations and your subtle little digs about homosexuals. Had it up to here with your constant ignoring of the facts. I'm all for discussion about this but all you are doing is trolling. Don't post in this thread again.

Chinafoot

walshb wrote: »

I don't believe Gately died whilst sober, NO. I do think that drink or whatever else played a part. Hey, it is possible that he just died with no alcohol realted, this can happen. But, I think that he was probably tanked with alcohol and simply his heart didn't deal with it and he died.

And if alcohol did play a part it bears no relation to his sexuality. Plenty of straight people go out and get tanked up (and more) every weekend. She did not need to bring his sexuality into the equation at all. However, it fits her homophobic agenda.

walshb wrote: »

It can hapeen, and has happened to many folks. As for the partner and the Bulgarian, are you seriously telling me that folks aren't thinking about what was going on? I don't know and nobody knows but Cowles and the Bulgarian, and Stephen. Unfortunately, Stephen won't be telling anything and Cowles and the Bulgarian can say what they like. Dead men tell no tales.

Ah yes, only gay men have sex with people outside their marriage. Give me a fúcking break. What went on in their marriage is absolutely nobody's business. Maybe they had an open marriage, maybe they were swingers, maybe there was nothing sexual involved at all. It is completely irrelevant to his death and people desperately trying to link the two are doing nothing other than highlighting their own bigotry and homophobia.

drkpower

walshb wrote: »

I don't believe Gately died whilst sober, NO. I do think that drink or whatever else played a part. Hey, it is possible that he just died with no alcohol realted, this can happen. But, I think that he was probably tanked with alcohol and simply his heart didn't deal with it and he died..

But there is no evidence to support that analysis. Many milllions of people die while having alcohol in their systems. In the vast vast majority of cases, alcohol is not contributory to their death. So you can "believe" it all you want but there is no reason to believe it - that is the difference.

walshb wrote: »

As for the partner and the Bulgarian, are you seriously telling me that folks aren't thinking about what was going on? I don't know and nobody knows but Cowles and the Bulgarian, and Stephen. Unfortunately, Stephen won't be telling anything and Cowles and the Bulgarian can say what they like. Dead men tell no tales.
.

Of course some people "believe" it, some people believe all sorts of things. But the mere fact that two partners are in the same apartment as their good friend does not mean that there is infidelity afoot. I have been in the same house as my wife and a friend of mine or hers hundreds of times but noone has ever suggested I or my wife was playing around. Why do you suggest it in this case? There is no evidence to support your suggestion.

So I ask again, is it appropriate for me to use the "evidence" of your recent posts to "believe" that you are a member of the BNP or that you go out at night beating up homosexuals? Or would you be right to tell me that I am way off the mark to make such a suggestion?

Pepe LeFrits

Daily Hate fascist in homophobia shocker!

nlgbbbblth

ejmaztec wrote: »

I hope that there's an orchestrated campaign to reduce the rag's circulation, in the same way that Liverpudlians boycott The Sun..

TheZohan wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The Sun newspaper are still suffering from the fallout of the Hillsborough article that they ran after the disaster. People in Liverpool still boycott the paper to this day.

Plenty Irish Liverpool fans still buy The Sun. Many of them old enough to remember Hillsborough. Why?

fryup

isn't barry egan of the indo, doing a similar article tommorow, just heard an ad on the radio

asdasd

bwalsh can't reply anymore but let me point this out from the autopsy report, in reply to his argument that drink might have been involved.

"He died a natural death of acute pulmonary oedema" which had nothing to do with any consumption of alcohol or drugs, said the spokeswoman in the Majorcan capital of Palma.

So what do people want exactly? Are they accusing the autopsy office of a coverup?

In Moir's column she said the "truth" would come out? A less rigid mind might accept that the Majorcan autopsy office, which is hardly in cahoots with anyone, has already produced the truth. The truth is already out there.

i dont even understand how a discussion can continue on this.

asdasd

isn't barry egan of the indo, doing a similar article tommorow, just heard an ad on the radio

Of course he is. Cnut.

Mike 1972

I dont know why anyone is surprised by this bile TBH

Outraged certainly but surprised?

Its hardly a million years ago since this same Forgers Gazette ran the headline "Abortion hope at genes findings" (The genes in question being the ones which supposedly made people gay)

While a lot of people (with considerable justification it much be said) give out on a regular basis about the Sun at least most sun readers know deep down that what they are reading should be taken with a pinch of salt. The Mail is far more insidious because most of its readers believe every word of it. By the appallingly low standards of British tabloid journalism it is definitely the worst (albeit up against fierce competition from the Daily Express in the race to the bottom as well).

ejmaztec

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Plenty Irish Liverpool fans still buy The Sun. Many of them old enough to remember Hillsborough. Why?

There's still bad feeling in Liverpool over that rag, and the Liverpudlians have got long memories. How do you know how many Irish Liverpool fans buy it?

asdasd

Its hardly a million years ago since this same Forgers Gazette ran the headline "Abortion hope at genes findings" (The genes in question being the ones which supposedly made people gay)

Bit of a liberal quandry there though, what with a woman's right to chose and all.

john-joe

I wouldn't but the SUN because it's **** paper nothing to do with coverage of hillsborough in the 80's

I think they have paid for their mistake by now

Sorry if I went off topic there....

TheZohanS

john-joe wrote: »

I wouldn't but the SUN because it's **** paper nothing to do with coverage of hillsborough in the 80's

I think they have paid for their mistake by now

Sorry if I went off topic there....

You're right but imagine growing up in Liverpool and being a Liverpool supporter and then having a newspaper coming out with the sort of crap they did, chances are you had a relative or friend die in the disaster.

The Liverpudlian supporters are a close knit community, they won't forget. Just like the Boyzone fans and neighbours, friends and relatives of Stephen Gately won't forget what was written about him.

Bandit12

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Plenty Irish Liverpool fans still buy The Sun. Many of them old enough to remember Hillsborough. Why?

This is true. There is many an idiot Liverpool fan that buy's the rag to this very day but there is also no doubt the s*n newspaper will never be bought in the city of liverpool to the same extent it is in other cities around the UK hence showing the fantastic response to the boycott.

nlgbbbblth

ejmaztec wrote: »

There's still bad feeling in Liverpool over that rag, and the Liverpudlians have got long memories. How do you know how many Irish Liverpool fans buy it?

I've encountered work colleagues, people on the bus, guys in pubs etc - all Liverpool fans carrying / reading The Sun newspaper.

My cousin who goes to a lot of Liverpool games (living there since late 70s) says he sees quite a few clueless Irish fans with it when they fly over. He always tells them to throw it in the bin and frequently gets blank looks.

KetchupKid

drkpower wrote: »

First, how do you know he had a "partying and binge drinking lifestyle", or at least any more than the average Irish 20 or 30-something?

Second, can you tell us how that 'lifestyle', if it did exist, caused his death? And try and be specific about how you have come to this medical conclusion?

I am doubtful you will be able to answer any of these questions. Because you, no different to Jan Moir, arre merely using your own prejudices, rather than any actual evidence, to come to you errant conclusions. And that is pretty shameful.

Certainly his partying and binge drinking lifestyle was probably no different than the average Irish 20-something lifestyle, including myself, although myself and many others outgrow it before 30-something. I'm not even saying Gately had this lifestyle, maybe only unfortunately he had it for just one night, but that is all it takes.

If you look at the facts, and my previous post, it is a pretty easy conclusion that binge drinking probably caused him to aspirate vomit causing fluid on the lungs, this has now been also echoed on several radio stations today.

I'm not condoning Jan Moir's homophobic article, just stating that the fast lane partying lifestyle probably did play a factor, and I admit it could have easily been me, but fortunately I eventually outgrew this behaviour before I hit 30. People keep saying young healthy people can die like this, but it is rare and 99% of the time there is an underlying problem. Considering all of the information and the fact that they did have a heavy night of drinking, the fluid on the lungs was probably aspirated vomit.

asdasd

If you look at the facts, and my previous post, it is a pretty easy conclusion that binge drinking probably caused him to aspirate vomit causing fluid on the lungs, this has now been also echoed on several radio stations today.

What did the coroner say?

Kirnsy

walshb wrote: »

But, I think that he was probably tanked with alcohol and simply his heart didn't deal with it and he died.

It can hapeen, and has happened to many folks. As for the partner and the Bulgarian, are you seriously telling me that folks aren't thinking about what was going on? .

thats quite a conclusion you've leapt to there...... twice.

drkpower

KetchupKid wrote: »

Certainly his partying and binge drinking lifestyle was probably no different than the average Irish 20-something lifestyle, including myself, although myself and many others outgrow it before 30-something. I'm not even saying Gately had this lifestyle, maybe only unfortunately he had it for just one night, but that is all it takes.

If you look at the facts, and my previous post, it is a pretty easy conclusion that binge drinking probably caused him to aspirate vomit causing fluid on the lungs, this has now been also echoed on several radio stations today.

Dis you miss the post from asdasd above? Looks like you did; your "conclusion" is a conclusion based on nothing but your own prejudices, certainly not on the facts.


Quote:
"He died a natural death of acute pulmonary oedema" which had nothing to do with any consumption of alcohol or drugs, said the spokeswoman in the Majorcan capital of Palma.

KetchupKid

drkpower wrote: »

Dis you miss the post from asdasd above? Looks like you did; your "conclusion" is a conclusion based on nothing but your own prejudices, certainly not on the facts.

Quote:
"He died a natural death of acute pulmonary oedema" which had nothing to do with any consumption of alcohol or drugs, said the spokeswoman in the Majorcan capital of Palma.

They certainly aren't prejudices, just logic and common sense!!

Did you miss my original post above, or have your prejudices and love for Boyzone and Gatley blinded you? Acute pulmonary oedema is the reason for Gately's death, but this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something. There are several things that could cause it, but most would have presented symptoms prior to death. Just because the press release says it wasn't caused by alcohol, doesn't mean it is necessarily true! If it wasn't from aspirating vomit, then how did the fluid get on his lungs? I don't reallycare how he died, the poor lad is dead and I appreaciate that, but don't lie, they should have just kept all details private as opposed to say it was "natural".