Sunderland V Liverpool 17/10/09 Match Thread

Diabhal Beag

I cried with laughter at the balloon. How unlucky can you get Reds?

SlickRic

LZ5by5 wrote: »

To be fair, on paper this sounds pretty sweet;

---

Reina

---

---

Agger---Carra---Skrtel----
-Aurelio

---

Johnson-

Up to there, I had no problem with the formation, and had Gerrard and Torres been fit I'm sure it would have worked.

we never play it though, ever.

why change a system that has been so successful for us, just to play all of our top class defenders?

it is very simplistic to say it would've worked with Stevie and Nando.

last year away to Portsmouth it did not work for 75 mins. we won, but it was very poor.

mayordenis

SlickRic wrote: »

he tried to do too much on his own, absolutely, and i'm not defending his performance as much as it may seem. apologies.

he maybe got the ball more than i made out, but like i said during the game, he and kuyt had zero support. all our players - dirk, yossi, even johnson trying to run through players because of a lack of other options, as well as his own poor play.

our midfield, for whatever reason, was as stagnant as muck.

again, the tactics and formation were the main culprits today for me; and i'm never quick to blame rafa.

there were also too many poor performances. but it honestly looked like the players had no idea what to do in that f***ing system.

Sorry yep - your bang on, pretty perfect summation.

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

why does it matter? I'm a football fan. LOI, premiership, La Liga, my back garden, FIFA 10, subbuteo and Football Manager.

Kuyt and Beny are not the type of players you should be relying on to get results away from home against in form on the up teams...average, squad players and massively inconsistent. Especially Yossi

in fairness Trilla, i think you're a sound fella, but i actually thought you were messing when you said they werent good enough.

Kuyt is one of the best players in the league, and Yossi has been excellent so far for us this season as well as the last 6 months of last season.

both are superb players. if you wanted to pick holes in our team, they are not the lads to go for!

Handsome Bob

Trilla wrote: »

why does it matter? I'm a football fan. LOI, premiership, La Liga, my back garden, FIFA 10, subbuteo and Football Manager.

Kuyt and Beny are not the type of players you should be relying on to get results away from home against in form on the up teams...average, squad players and massively inconsistent. Especially Yossi

I ask because if you were you a Liverpool fan who watched the team every week you would respect the fact that Kuyt and Benayoun have been important players in our team. To say they are average is just wrong, even a basic system such as the fantasy league points allocation would show you how wrong you are.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

both are superb players. if you wanted to pick holes in our team, they are not the lads to go for!

I love Kuyt, hats off to effort and awareness. But to looking to those two players as your match winers for games like this...is miles off! I know, Pool don't have much else when Gerrard, Torres and the likes are absent. But thats my point...It would be like United looking towards Carrick and Nani (as apposed to a Giggs, Rooney, even a Michael Owen) to change a game or take it by the bullhorns

Not good enough was harsh and out of context I retract that....it might stand for Nani though!

LuckyLloyd

Missed the match, just saw the goal there. LOL!! What can you say to that sort of thing?

postalservice

only1stevo wrote: »

So apt

Feck wont work, someone get 99 red balloons up lads

post # 286 :cool:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62579105&postcount=286

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

But thats my point...It would be like United looking towards Carrick and Nani (as apposed to a Giggs, Rooney, even a Michael Owen) to change a game or take it by the bullhorns

Not good enough was harsh and out of context I retract that....it might stand for Nani though!

Kuyt got like 15 goals last season & the same amount of assists, Yossi was near enough the same despite less playing time......????!

Nalz

...and honestly, I could pick 30 or 40 players better than Kuyt in the Premiership...that doesnt make him one of the best players in the league for me. Just my opinion, I'm not here to slate Liverpool at all. It will be tough for United next week believe you me, wounded animal with the two world class players back.

SlickRic

Trilla wrote: »

I love Kuyt, hats off to effort and awareness. But to looking to those two players as your match winers for games like this...is miles off! I know, Pool don't have much else when Gerrard, Torres and the likes are absent. But thats my point...It would be like United looking towards Carrick and Nani (as apposed to a Giggs, Rooney, even a Michael Owen) to change a game or take it my the bullhorns

Not good enough was harsh and out of context I retract that....it might stand for Nani though!

benny and kuyt have turned plenty of games our way. i, for one, am normally fine with resting on them to pull us out of a mess, as much as a Giggs for Utd, especially Yossi. he's grabbed plenty of games by the cajones.

be careful not to fall into the stereotypes that kuyt is simply just an 'effort' footballer, and Yossi is a squad player. they are not true of either.

Handsome Bob

SlickRic wrote: »

we never play it though, ever.

why change a system that has been so successful for us, just to play all of our top class defenders?

it is very simplistic to say it would've worked with Stevie and Nando.

Aye but I guess it was worth a punt since our best system was missing two of its' most important players. They are three quality defenders right there, and they got schooled by Kenwye Jones today. There's no excuse for that, not even a change of formation.

Trilla

From

Trilla wrote: »

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

and

Trilla wrote: »

Kuyt and Beny are not the type of players you should be relying on to get results away from home against in form on the up teams...average, squad players and massively inconsistent.

to

Trilla wrote: »

I love Kuyt

in ths space of 5 minutes :eek:

Fickle??

Spiritoftheseventies

rarnes1 wrote: »

From



and



to



in ths space of 5 minutes :eek:

Fickle??

Andy Reid mentioned 24 times on BBC websites blow by blow account of game. Does that tell us anything I wonder?

Nalz

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fickle??

Cant love average players now? Heck I love Kilbane and he's terrible ! I love Fletcher too....some people consider him average. I don't however.

And I retracted that not good enough statement, stated it as over the top and harsh.

Is that clear enough for you?

I hate it when people pull bits out of posts like that not showing the complete picture

SlickRic

to be fair to Trilla, he's one of the fairer non-liverpool posters to come in here. he genuinely looks for discussion rather than to bait.

Trilla

Trilla wrote: »

Cant love average players now? Heck I love Kilbane and he's terrible ! I love Fletcher too....some people consider him average as hell

And I retracted that not good enough statement, stated it as over the top and harsh.

Is that clear enough for you?

Fair enough. Emotions run high for a few hours after a match !!

NaiveMelodies

postalservice wrote: »

post # 286 :cool:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62579105&postcount=286

Sorry just got in and hadnt looked through thread

Nalz

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fair enough. Emotions run high for a few hours after a match !!

I know man. I was in Old trafford last year a few times...unfortunately the Liverpool game was one of them. Best of luck next week!

mayordenis

Trilla wrote: »

I know man. I was in Old trafford last year a few times...unfortunately the Liverpool game was one of them. Best of luck next week!

FU!!! LOLOL!AAG

nah you're poster of the day Trilla, cherish this moment.

SlickRic

Trilla wrote: »

I know man. I was in Old trafford last year a few times...unfortunately the Liverpool game was one of them. Best of luck next week!

going a bit far man.

we know you're sound and all, but we're not stupid

flahavaj

Mark this one down as Rafa's fault. Was a difficult away game against the most improved team in the league, with your two star players out injured and 5 other squad members just back in the country from S. America and Oz really the right time to debut a formation that they'd never really played at all before? Furthermore, has ANY team ever really used the three at the back formation to any great success in the premier league?:eek:

Also his decision to splash out on a player who was injured for the first 2 months of the season has backfired totally. And this in a season when Liverpool genuinely had their best chance at the title given their form at the end of the season and with pretty much all their title rivals either weakened or under new management. Hitting the ground running should have been the absolute priority.

Paul Tergat

flahavaj wrote: »

Mark this one down as Rafa's fault. Was a difficult away game against the most improved team in the league, with your two star players out injured and 5 other squad members just back in the country from S. America and Oz really the right time to debut a formation that they'd never really played at all before? Furthermore, has ANY team ever really used the three at the back formation to any great success in the premier league?:eek:

Also his decision to splash out on a player who was injured for the first 2 months of the season has backfired totally. And this in a season when Liverpool genuinely had their best chance at the title given their form at the end of the season and with pretty much all their title rivals either weakened or under new management. Hitting the ground running should have been the absolute priority.

Seems like a decent assessment to me. wp.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Mark this one down as Rafa's fault. Was a difficult away game against the most improved team in the league, with your two star players out injured and 5 other squad members just back in the country from S. America and Oz really the right time to debut a formation that they'd never really played at all before? Furthermore, has ANY team ever really used the three at the back formation to any great success in the premier league?:eek:

Also his decision to splash out on a player who was injured for the first 2 months of the season has backfired totally. And this in a season when Liverpool genuinely had their best chance at the title given their form at the end of the season and with pretty much all their title rivals either weakened or under new management. Hitting the ground running should have been the absolute priority.

It was the players AND Rafa's fault.

Not to mention a fantastic display from Sunderland

Spiritoftheseventies

They say the balloon belonged to pool fan. Can see the headlines tomorrow
"Balloon deflates pools title hopes"!

Nalz

SlickRic wrote: »

we know you're sound and all

Will this change things?

My beautiful lucky charm
with the crest of my loving club
with me as always, on the train up
on the bus and in the pub

Its sparkling colours
for the team that I do adore
We're gonna have a great day
Should win by three or four

I know we're gona do it
Even without Torres and Stevie G
With my lucky baloon we're gonna win
Everyone will see


Me, and my pool baloon
its been to old trafford, London and the toon
but at sunderland i let it go
my love for the pool to finally show
but then
a moment
oh here comes bent
and off by baloon
f'uck in it went
i sat and cried
my face went red
and now come Monday
in school i'm dead

Sully

Liverpool Rafa Benitez refused to blame the fluke goal which gave Sunderland their 1-0 victory.

The only goal at the Stadium of Light arrived after five minutes when Darren Bent's shot deflected off a beach ball and past the helpless Jose Reina.

But Benitez admits the goal should have stood and he could have no complaints about the result after a poor performance.

"It was a special situation, but we didn't play well and so I don't want to talk about that - we didn't play well and we made some mistakes, we gave the ball away and we couldn't take our chances," said Benitez.

"These things happen, it is a bad situation for us as it was in the middle and very influential but we didn't play well and that is the main thing for me."

When asked if he thought the goal should have been disallowed, he replied: "It is a technical question, but if you look at the opposite and the ball went wide, then a goal would not have been given so on this occasion it has to be a goal and that is it.

"We have to do better if we want to win these sort of games."
Title dreams

Benitez also insisted that their fourth defeat in nine league games does not mean their title hopes have gone.

"In a normal season if the teams at the top of the table win every single game then it would be different," he said.

"Look at this year Chelsea have already lost two games and I think this year will see teams at the top losing a lot of games.

"This is bad, but whether it is crucial depends on the next few games, you have to keep your confidence and keep working hard.

"We are not going to talk about the title as we have an important game in midweek and then another game on Sunday. Our priority is to take as many points as we can from every single game.

"We are making some mistakes and we have to try and find the solutions and in these difficult games we have to improve."

He also played down his touchline spat with Steve Bruce.

"There was no argument, I was just asking about the time. I was talking with the fourth official and he wanted to argue with me," he said.

Benitez also said he was hopeful that Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres would be fit to face Lyon in midweek.

"Both are improving but it is too soon to say, we will see how they progress. As a team we have to keep working hard," he concluded.

Source: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5634204,00.html

Holsten

bayviewclose wrote: »

They say the balloon belonged to pool fan. Can see the headlines tomorrow
"Balloon deflates pools title hopes"!

It did, Liverpool crest on it and all!

flahavaj

On another note, that Cana fella for Sunderland looks a bloody brilliant player. Whether he was in centrefield of centre half today he was exceptional, an absolute monster. Yet another rabbit out of the hat from Brucie, hes some man to find these unheard of gems.

SlickRic

fair assessment from Rafa it seems.

refusing to blame the balloon is refreshing.

probably because he knows HE got it wrong

i look forward to seeing the reaction next week; and there had better be one.

SlickRic

flahavaj wrote: »

On another note, that Cana fella for Sunderland looks a bloody brilliant player. Whether he was in centrefield of centre half today he was exceptional, an absolute monster. Yet another rabbit out of the hat from Brucie, hes some man to find these unheard of gems.

agreed.

he looks absolute top quality. and he's captain.

him and cattermole will stifle and outplay a lot of teams this season.

Spiritoftheseventies

When was last time we lost four matches so early on in season. WTF is going on. I really thought we had turned the corner after last season but seemingly not.

elshambo

flahavaj wrote: »

On another note, that Cana fella for Sunderland looks a bloody brilliant player. Whether he was in centrefield of centre half today he was exceptional, an absolute monster. Yet another rabbit out of the hat from Brucie, hes some man to find these unheard of gems.

And when Liverpool looked at him for 2 seasons every opinion was he was not a big enough name for liverpool

Pure Cork

flahavaj wrote: »

On another note, that Cana fella for Sunderland looks a bloody brilliant player. Whether he was in centrefield of centre half today he was exceptional, an absolute monster. Yet another rabbit out of the hat from Brucie, hes some man to find these unheard of gems.

The captain of Olympique de Marseille was an unheard-of gem? :rolleyes:

flahavaj

elshambo wrote: »

And when Liverpool looked at him for 2 seasons every opinion was he was not a big enough name for liverpool

Didn't know that tbh. On today's evidence he'd walk onto the team.:eek:

flahavaj

Pure Cork wrote: »

The captain of Olympique de Marseille was an unheard-of gem? :rolleyes:

Hes a name I wasn't really familiar with mate, I'm sorry my knowledge of French football isn't quite up there with yours.:pac:

daveyboy_1ie

bayviewclose wrote: »

When was last time we lost four matches so early on in season. WTF is going on. I really thought we had turned the corner after last season but seemingly not.

In fairness, and its not like I listen to the waffle that usually comes out of Benitez, but he is right this season. ALL of the top teams are going to lose more goals than they expect and its not just gonna be a top four league with the rest lagging miles behind. Its going to be much tighter than usual league. It makes it more exciting but of course when its your team losing it ain't pretty. United should have been out of sight by the tenth minute today, they didn't put the goals away and had to settle for a Valencia goal on top of a flukey own goal. After that it seemed like cruise control and suddenly Bolton get one back and before you know it its alll hands to the pump and running balls into corner flag situations at 86 minutes in OLD TRAFFORD. United were running scared today for the last quarter and although would not have deserved a draw, it could very easily have happened.

You can never say never with this league and Sunderland are far stronger than they were last season, so don't be so surprised. It nearly happened to United two weeks ago and should have been a warning.

raido9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km7JK6zMyh4

elshambo

Trilla wrote: »

why does it matter? I'm a football fan. LOI, premiership, La Liga, my back garden, FIFA 10, subbuteo and Football Manager.

computer games are not football; they are computer games

Trilla wrote: »

Kuyt and Beny are not the type of players you should be relying on to get results away from home against in form on the up teams...average, squad players and massively inconsistent. Especially Yossi

Fair point!

flahavaj

That poor youngfellas gonna get the bayting of his life in the schoolyard on Monday.:pac:

Nalz

elshambo wrote: »

computer games are not football; they are computer games

I know I was kidding, tryna add lib somewhat! Subbuteo isn't a computer game by the way

flahavaj wrote: »

That poor youngfellas gonna get the bayting of his life in the schoolyard on Monday.:pac:

in the last line of the poem, kid has to leave the country!

kippy

flahavaj wrote: »

Hes a name I wasn't really familiar with mate, I'm sorry my knowledge of French football isn't quite up there with yours.:pac:

He was a bit of a legend in Football Manager also if I remember correctly.
Bruce is as avid fan.
Maybe Trilla has the right idea.

flahavaj

elshambo wrote: »

computer games are not football; they are computer games

If you REALLy want to be a pedant, Subutteo is a board game.;)

elshambo

flahavaj wrote: »

If you REALLy want to be a pedant, Subutteo is a board game.;)

If you REALLY want to be a pedant, Subutteo is rubbish:eek::)

Pure Cork

flahavaj wrote: »

Hes a name I wasn't really familiar with mate, I'm sorry my knowledge of French football isn't quite up there with yours.:pac:

I thought Liverpool fans would remember him; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNRtN_G7BNw&feature=related


To cheer ye up, here he is making s*** of Ronaldo; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-44cVQPNy0&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0S6rm-_07I&feature=related

flahavaj

elshambo wrote: »

If you REALLY want to be a pedant, Subutteo is rubbish:eek::)

It really was, wasn't it?

elshambo

kippy wrote: »

He was a bit of a legend in Football Manager also if I remember correctly.
Bruce is as avid fan.
Maybe Trilla has the right idea.

Judging by the way RAFA picked the team today he is a bit of a football Manager player himself
as in:
picked a new formation
a new formation that none of the lads are used to in any way
a new formation for a game during an international week SO
he had no time to work on it during the week
a new formation for an away game against an inform settled team

It probably worked on his laptop last night:mad:

The fact he changed the formation SO much because 2 players were missing show NO faith in the other players
His players!!!!!:mad:

I dont get it!

Dave!

Dunno if these have been posted here already, but it has to be done

Handsome Bob

raido9 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km7JK6zMyh4

That little bastard, banned for life!

Spiritoftheseventies

speaking of Subbuteo (which was a great game) anyone remember this famous singles cover. very appropriate I think!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Oth6bm5E9Fc/SltiuvPA2vI/AAAAAAAAAcI/UF8CGmMbrfs/s320/the+undertones+-+my+perfect+cousin+[7'']+(1980)+front.jpeg