Harney warns of IMF intervention within 2yrs?

gurramok

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1016/breaking45.htm

IT wrote:

Later, Minister for Health Mary Harney warned that if the Government doesn’t take tough decisions now, the International Monetary Fund would make them for the country.

“We are currently spending €500 million a week more than we are raising that’s not a sustainable situation," she said. “I believe if we make very tough decisions this year and next year we will see light at the end of the tunnel.

“It’s not going to be easy, it’s going to be incredibly difficult but we’re going to have to do it otherwise if others come in like the IMF because we haven’t the capacity to make these decisions then they will immediately start cutting expenditure by 30-40 per cent”.

This must be the first time a govt minister(like or loathe her) has stated the obvious to the public sector.(and welfare recipients of course )

Interesting that RTE never published the same comments http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1016/economy.html

Do nothing for 2 years and there will be 'no light'. Does she mean bankruptcy?

RTE wrote:

Speaking at the Dublin Chamber of Commerce annual dinner, the Minister Lenihan said that if borrowing continued unchecked, two out of every three euro of income tax would go to service a national debt of €160 billion by 2013.

Do nothing and the country will go broke in 4 years.

So if they do nothing or little to nothing to tackle public spending, is it a 2yr or a 4yr timeline to bankruptcy?

AARRRGH

gurramok wrote: »

Interesting that RTE never published the same comments http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1016/economy.html

Yep, RTE are really pissing me off. Total selective journalism, e.g. they're ok with their own shockingly high salaries, but not with the politicians, etc.

gerry28

Later, Minister for Health Mary Harney warned that if the Government doesn’t take tough decisions now, the International Monetary Fund would make them for the country.

Yeah it looks like they are getting the country prewarned about the butchery that lies ahead. Cowan and Lenihan are at the same.

I'm not sure what they hope to achieve by taking more money out of the economy and frightening the people into hoarding what little they have left.

AARRRGH

gerry28 wrote: »

I'm not sure what they hope to achieve by taking more money out of the economy and frightening the people into hoarding what little they have left.

They have no choice.

Rented Mule

Denial is a river that runs down Kildare Street.

The past two emergency budgets were shortsighted without any true vision or action that would lead this country through the darkness of this recession. Now, the only light is an oncoming train ?

I wish this government's foresight was a good as it's hindsight.

Diarmuid

I think this is part of the softening up for the upcoming cuts. They really have no choice. Bertie painted the country into this corner, no choice but to undo the damage he did.

eoinbn

gurramok wrote: »

So if they do nothing or little to nothing to tackle public spending, is it a 2yr or a 4yr timeline to bankruptcy?

We are already bankrupt. The cuts that are required are impossible to implement. The country is up in arms over small cuts of 5% in welfare and public sector pay when what we require is cuts much close to 50% than 5%.

peasant

As someone on the last word called it today, it's the "post Lisbon-vote deluge"

It's plain to see that we simply cannot afford to spend 400 million more every week than we're taking in. Those figures have been out there for months ...just that before the Lisbon vote was passed nobody from the governement wanted to mention them too loudly or too often.

They're simply catching up now, softening us all up for the really painful budget that HAS to come in December.

Even FF couldn't be so reckless as to continue as usual.

who_ru

look everyone in this country was in denial for the last 10 years, 2nd richest country in the world and all that ffs.

well now it's time to pay the piper, i don't care, the most of the electorate have only themselves to blame, elect FF time and time again, glorified county councillors the most of them.

the f**king unions are as bad, defending public sector pay rates that are way beyond what we can afford. it's typical of the irish at a time like this, divide in splinter groups, point at and blame everyone else, but never come together, realise we have a huge problem and need to work together to get it right. our politicians are a disgrace in this regard, constantly trying to score political points and further dividing opinion and society. school children would do better for god sake.

dodgyme

who_ru wrote: »

look everyone in this country was in denial for the last 10 years, 2nd richest country in the world and all that ffs..

I never could understand how we could be the 2nd richest nation on earth which queuing and having to pay a toll for the luxury of a 2 lane bridge over the liffey.

who_ru wrote: »

, the most of the electorate have only themselves to blame, elect FF time and time again, glorified county councillors the most of them...

I dont blame the sheep electorate although I could never understand who was voting them in. The opposition are sh*t also so I didnt completly tear my hair out. What I couldnt understand was the small mindedness of the electorate. The attitude taht I have got a tenner extra since the budget so I am happy type attitude. I rather have a tenner less and an exellect public transport?

who_ru wrote: »

the f**king unions are as bad, defending public sector pay rates that are way beyond what we can afford. it's typical of the irish at a time like this, divide in splinter groups, point at and blame everyone else, but never come together, realise we have a huge problem and need to work together to get it right. our politicians are a disgrace in this regard, constantly trying to score political points and further dividing opinion and society. school children would do better for god sake.

nice summary. I thought I had something to add, I dont so I will shut it!

brianthebard

Harney is marking the way for the next budget in similar language to NAMA, ie that this is the 'only show in town' and there's no other way to do things. Say it often enough until people are scared to think rationally about the options. Then do whatever they think is best, even if its not.

who_ru wrote: »

the f**king unions are as bad, defending public sector pay rates that are way beyond what we can afford. it's typical of the irish at a time like this, divide in splinter groups, point at and blame everyone else, but never come together, realise we have a huge problem and need to work together to get it right. our politicians are a disgrace in this regard, constantly trying to score political points and further dividing opinion and society. school children would do better for god sake.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing with your ****ing Unions comment?

eoinbn

brianthebard wrote: »

Harney is marking the way for the next budget in similar language to NAMA, ie that this is the 'only show in town' and there's no other way to do things. Say it often enough until people are scared to think rationally about the options. Then do whatever they think is best, even if its not.

Please enlighten us. Can you give us another way out of this?

brianthebard

eoinbn wrote: »

Please enlighten us. Can you give us another way out of this?

That wasn't the point I wsa making, the point was she's trying to frighten people into believing the government's policy is the only way to do things. I'm sure if you look at the other parties websites, or other countries policies, you'll see plenty of different ways to deal with the current situation.

peasant

brianthebard wrote: »

That wasn't the point I wsa making, the point was she's trying to frighten people into believing the government's policy is the only way to do things. I'm sure if you look at the other parties websites, or other countries policies, you'll see plenty of different ways to deal with the current situation.

So far no-one is dealing with anything much as far as our deficit is concerned, neither governement nor opposition ...they are just busy scoring points off each other.

dodgyme

brianthebard wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what you're doing with your ****ing Unions comment?

ya but who_ru doesnt represent a sizeable Public sector and I am not talking about mary harney.

dresden8

Harney's biggest worry is that the IMF will make her pay for her own hair-dos.

This slug has syphoned money from the public purse for years, especially after her husband opened the taps on FAS expenditure, and now tells us we have to tighten our belts.

I have no words for the depth of contempt I hold that woman in.

Takeshi_Kovacs

Well at least she and her fine colleagues in the dail will still have their generous salary, and if worst comes to the worst, and somehow the sheep vote them out of government, there's a nice little pension to keep them going through the hard times ahead.

I just hope people have the sense to never vote these abominations into office again (but they will unfortunately)

thebman

dresden8 wrote: »

Harney's biggest worry is that the IMF will make her pay for her own hair-dos.

This slug has syphoned money from the public purse for years, especially after her husband opened the taps on FAS expenditure, and now tells us we have to tighten our belts.

I have no words for the depth of contempt I hold that woman in.

Don't be mistaken man, she didn't want to have to come out and say this.

She is being made do it as FF don't want anyone in the party to come out and say it so end out the independent/PD to say the bad news and sacrifice her in the election next time out as it wasn't FF that wanted to make the cuts!

Its all FF PR and damned their coalition partners yet everyone is still blind to this illogical situation. They let it happen to get something they said they would do for their constituency hoping that will get them re-elected but this is all she will be remembered for if she becomes the face of cuts.

She has not business being the spokesperson for the cuts as its not like she is the Minister for Finance.

dresden8

thebman wrote: »

Don't be mistaken man, she didn't want to have to come out and say this.

She is being made do it as FF don't want anyone in the party to come out and say it so end out the independent/PD to say the bad news and sacrifice her in the election next time out as it wasn't FF that wanted to make the cuts!

Its all FF PR and damned their coalition partners yet everyone is still blind to this illogical situation. They let it happen to get something they said they would do for their constituency hoping that will get them re-elected but this is all she will be remembered for if she becomes the face of cuts.

She has not business being the spokesperson for the cuts as its not like she is the Minister for Finance.

Don't worry, my hatred of Harney does not absolve FF. Nor the Greens.

I can't wait until trev knocks on my door and I get to tell him what a cnut he is.

That also goes for Darragh O'Brien and Michael Kennedy.

All have a place on the list.

ghost_ie

FF would love it if the IMF did come in. Come the next election they could say "it wasn't us who cut all your wages and public services, it was the IMF. None of it was our fault". And we'd vote FF back into power again, just like we always do

Arnold Layne

ghost_ie wrote: »

FF would love it if the IMF did come in. Come the next election they could say "it wasn't us who cut all your wages and public services, it was the IMF. None of it was our fault". And we'd vote FF back into power again, just like we always do

Very true, the Irish Electorate have very short memories, look at the queues for the amnesiac's autobiography. We're a sad state.

thebman

not really though, the IMF would tell them to stop taking the piss with their avouched expenses and massive, unjustified salaries.

irish_bob

ghost_ie wrote: »

FF would love it if the IMF did come in. Come the next election they could say "it wasn't us who cut all your wages and public services, it was the IMF. None of it was our fault". And we'd vote FF back into power again, just like we always do

+1

reminds me of an interview with john o donoghues cousin after the cean comhlare had to step down , his cousin blamed the foreign media , so it goes with the IMF , twas them out foreign who took the medical card off me aunty betty and reduced the dole to 100 euro per week

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

Harney is marking the way for the next budget in similar language to NAMA, ie that this is the 'only show in town' and there's no other way to do things. Say it often enough until people are scared to think rationally about the options. Then do whatever they think is best, even if its not.




Isn't that exactly what you're doing with your ****ing Unions comment?

While I am 100% against NAMA, I have to say that these cuts actually are the only worthwhile show in town. When the other show in town is the union leaders who have come out and said that we should just KEEP BORROWING for a few more years and everything will be grand.

I don't want to be paying 50% tax with 35-40% of it going to bloody interest payments for the foreseeable future.

We need to get competitive and now is the time to do it. If we don't, this country will be a write-off for my generation at least.

murphaph

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

While I am 100% against NAMA, I have to say that these cuts actually are the only worthwhile show in town. When the other show in town is the union leaders who have come out and said that we should just KEEP BORROWING for a few more years and everything will be grand.

I don't want to be paying 50% tax with 35-40% of it going to bloody interest payments for the foreseeable future.

We need to get competitive and now is the time to do it. If we don't, this country will be a write-off for my generation at least.

Exactly, the bearded twats representing the public sector will happily write off our children to preserve their current pay scales.

Across the board cuts have to come now, to all Public Sector grades and positions and to social welfare recipients. The public sector defined benefit scheme needs to be binned post haste and replaced with a defined contribution one. Public servants should pay class A PRSI and avail of the normal state pension like everyone else.

Then we can focus on eliminating the wasters from the public sector and rewarding the genuinely hard working. Weeding out social welfare and tax cheats should be high on the agenda.

But BEFORE any of this can be imposed with any degree of moral authority, the Dail needs urgent reform-pay cuts, expense caps and/or vouched expenses only, minimum time required in the Dail etc.

cyclopath2001

murphaph wrote: »

The public sector defined benefit scheme needs to be binned post haste and replaced with a defined contribution one. Public servants should pay class A PRSI and avail of the normal state pension like everyone else. .

How many Public Servants don't pay class 'A'?

ardmacha

The public sector defined benefit scheme needs to be binned post haste and replaced with a defined contribution one.

This defined contribution idea is a private sector pension fund model, all the better to siphon off commission to the pension fund managers. Public service pensions do not need to be funded in this way as the government is a continuing entity. If pay rates are appropriate then there is nothing wrong with the basic concept of the PS pension arrangements which simply maintains a constant relationship between pay and pensions. The only problem arises if people live longer, the cure is that the retirement age should be increased for all pension schemes.

Public servants should pay class A PRSI and avail of the normal state pension like everyone else.

This is pointless suggestion. Most public servants already do pay class A PRSI. Those who do not have lower pay scales, putting them on the scales of those who do pay the contribution and making them pay it is simply a bookkeeping exercise irrelevant to the current problems.

jimd2

I hear very little talk about the "non resident" millionaires who avoid paying tax just because of all of the loop holes presided over by Bertie & co. Bertie actually canvassed Lenihan after the last budget to keep these guys out of the tax loop.

What also about the consultants & the judges? Surely if the higher paid civil servants have to take a cut then these guys should be included.

I would suggest the following cuts to public sector pay. To include pensions.

Salaries up to €40K - reduce by 5%
€40-€80K - reduce by 10% all earnings above €40k - rest by 5%
€80-120k - reduce the portion above 80k by 10%
€120-160k reduce the portion above €120k by 20%
Earnings above €160 to be reduced by 25%

Also take a serious knife to the quangos such as those identified on Prime Time a few months ago. Knife through expenses for politicians, county councillors. Implement all McCarthy recommendations except education ones.

Reduce pension and social welfare payments by 5%.

Scrap the Senate.

Introduce a new tax rate for earnings above €80.

thebman

There aren't that many non-resident millionaires and many of these peoples supposed wealth was debt anyway and they are now fooked.

So we can close it down but I'm not sure what the consequences for their businesses here will be given they can do something like outsource a lot of work that is done in Ireland at present if they want to in order to reduce costs and increase profits to make the money lost through tax back.

graduate

What also about the consultants & the judges? Surely if the higher paid civil servants have to take a cut then these guys should be included.

Judges absolutely have to be included in this. Pass the law and let it go to the Supreme Court, who will most likely uphold it as there is no intention to target judges any more than anyone else.

Salaries up to €40K - reduce by 5%
€40-€80K - reduce by 10% all earnings above €40k - rest by 5%
€80-120k - reduce the portion above 80k by 10%
€120-160k reduce the portion above €120k by 20%
Earnings above €160 to be reduced by 25%

Do you mean reduce the portion above 80k by 15%?

Implement all McCarthy recommendations except education ones.

Some of these should be looked at too e.g. coordinating the ITs in the Dublin area and looking at the mission of the Tipp Institute.

_Kooli_

Pity the IMF wouldnt just take over the health service.