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Harney warns of IMF intervention within 2yrs?

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    #92
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Whatever about the present attitude of unions, what was stupid about the money they demanded? The country was booming, the government went out of its way to state that the boom was going to continue. The unions said in this booming economy, please give us an increase.

    Even though the country "was booming", the country still had a huge debt. The govt owed billions, and our banks were borrowing tens of billions also. The unions said in this "booming" economy, please give us an increase....or we will have more " blue flue", more strikes. The govt gave in to them far too much, as we all know. Part of the reason was the govt + politicians worked with them + employed them, and it made their own high pay increases + perks seem justifiable too
    Now the unions will not even acknowledge the high level off public sector pay + pensions compared with all other countries, never mind the lesser paid private sector.


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    #93
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Even though the country "was booming", the country still had a huge debt.

    The national debt was at the lower end of EU States and nobody was much concerned with reducing it.
    and our banks were borrowing tens of billions also.

    As I said were the unions expected to conduct an alternative economic analysis? The back executives aid a million Euro thought it wise to borrow this money, the Central Bank and Regulator didn't seem too worried about banks borrowing. Are you saying that the unions should have said that these were wrong?


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    #94
    eoinbn
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    ardmacha wrote: »
    As I said were the unions expected to conduct an alternative economic analysis? The back executives aid a million Euro thought it wise to borrow this money, the Central Bank and Regulator didn't seem too worried about banks borrowing. Are you saying that the unions should have said that these were wrong?

    This is somewhat OT but there can be no denying that the unions have played a big part in backrupting the country. They have had a very big input into government policy over the last 20 years due to social partnership. They pushed for higher wages/shorter hours instead of cost control and better services. Of course the buck stops with government and as we voted them in we all have to shoulder some of the blame.


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    #95
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Whatever about the present attitude of unions, what was stupid about the money they demanded? The country was booming, the government went out of its way to state that the boom was going to continue. The unions said in this booming economy, please give us an increase. What do you expect them to do, produce an economic analysis and try and refute the government, the banks etc?

    Well there is the fact that it was completely unsustainable.

    And the fact that we have gone from a developing economy to a developed economy but still have third world infrastructure because all the money went on wages and buying votes.


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    #96
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    as much as the unions are being cricised for bankrupting the country, through social partnership, how much have the employers body IBEC failed to halt this?


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    #97
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    as much as the unions are being cricised for bankrupting the country, through social partnership, how much have the employers body IBEC failed to halt this?
    Most employers think their main job is to stay in business, and provide value and service to their customers, and a fair deal for their employees.
    Most employers in the country ( the average shop, business etc ) are not in IBEC. Most of the 1,800,000 private workers in the country have no sway with IBEC. They are represented by the government. By refusing to stand up for their rights, the govt has let them, and their dependents, down.


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    #98
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    as much as the unions are being cricised for bankrupting the country, through social partnership, how much have the employers body IBEC failed to halt this?
    I hold them in the same contempt as the unions and government who all went into the secret social partnership meetings and decided how my tax money would be spent.

    Most employees in Ireland were never and are still not represented at the 'partnership' table, despite footing the bill for it. It's a sick joke and should never have been started. The fact it is ongoing as the economy free-falls is a national disgrace.

    The vast vast bulk of those represented at the 'partnership' table are public and civil servants.


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    #99
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    as much as the unions are being cricised for bankrupting the country, through social partnership, how much have the employers body IBEC failed to halt this?

    Private sector pays what private sector can afford. Its no bother for the private sector to reduce wages in most industries. It involves one meeting.

    The private sector is flexible and adaptable to new situations when it has to be.


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    #100
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    murphaph wrote: »
    The vast vast bulk of those represented at the 'partnership' table are public and civil servants.

    No surprise they ended up with the best pay, pensions, hours worked etc. Shame on everyone involved. No wonder the country is the way it is. The average person deserves better.


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    #101
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Most employers think their main job is to stay in business, and provide value and service to their customers, and a fair deal for their employees.
    Most employers in the country ( the average shop, business etc ) are not in IBEC. Most of the 1,800,000 private workers in the country have no sway with IBEC. They are represented by the government. By refusing to stand up for their rights, the govt has let them, and their dependents, down.

    would you have any figures here to back up your assertions?

    from a cursory viewing of the IBC website, they claim to have over 7500 member organisations. Some of their members have very large workforces some have smaller. I would suggest, (though I can't find stats) that they represent companies employing a significant proportion of the workforce.
    At a nuts and bolts level, IBEC provides its membership base of over 7500 organisations with knowledge, influence and connections. IBEC staff offer practical employer services as well as the opportunity to network and lobby at an industry level through a web of over 60 business sector associations.


    From www.ibec.ie

    tbh this reads very similarly to the mission statement of a trade union. Again I would suggest that they are as much a vested interest as the trade unions you so despise. Don't forget they were at the Social Partners bargaining table along with many other groups. So if the social partner agreements bankrupted the country, as has been asserted by yourself and others, then they are just as culpable.

    Would you agree with this?


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