Ok film heads - little help with selection?

sineadw

I'm shooting a noir, 40's style session in the studio on Tuesday. I'll be using the digital hassie, but I'm also going to shoot in film (hassie too) as I'm hoping this will give me a better representation of the feel of it, if you know what I mean. This is the style I'm going for:







So high contrast, low grain stuff. 120mm. I'm thinking Ilford panF 50, overexposed slightly in shooting and underexposed slightly in dev. Anyone got any other suggestions though? Or anything else to add?

DaireQuinlan

I was going to suggest panf aswell. In all honesty though I think a lot of that look is down to the lighting and the setting as much as it is the film. Also, did they actually have panchromatic film by then ? Or were they all still shooting ortho film ? If so then you might want to stick a blue filter over the lens for the authentic look*


*not recommended !

Anouilh

If you do searches with

noir lighting

there is plenty of advice on the net.

I think that the photos could do with just a bit more shadow, though that is a personal reaction.

http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/cteq/06/38/third_man.html

Also, grain can be distracting if overdone.

Your style is very chic.

kumate_champ07

soft focus filter(glass not photoshop)

Anouilh

Photo bloggers have plenty of good tips:

http://darkmattr.blogspot.com/2007/07/lightmatters-or-hobo-in-studio.html#links

Smoke is also so totally noir:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/filmnoir/discuss/72157605990903424/

It's also well worth looking at fabrics to be worn by models.
There is a sort of iconography of texture in traditional noir...
the women are represented in psychological terms in relation to the clothes they wear and how they reflect light.
The femme fatale always seems to shimmer, while the second fiddle is always in tweeds, or so it seems to me.

sineadw

Anouiilh - they're not mine! That's veronica Lake and Barbara Stanwyck - I'll be blooody well pleased if I can get anything close And yep - been studying and reading up on chiaroscuro lighting for the last month and a half in prep. Got a spotlight and a gobo holder, so no need to resort to the homemade - but thanks!

Daire and Kumate - I'm looking into filters .. Anything worth getting my hands on? Soft focus - softar? They expensive do you know? anad available in Gunns/equivalent?

kumate_champ07

sineadw wrote: »

Anouiilh - they're not mine! That's veronica Lake and Barbara Stanwyck - I'll be blooody well pleased if I can get anything close And yep - been studying and reading up on chiaroscuro lighting for the last month and a half in prep. Got a spotlight and a gobo holder, so no need to resort to the homemade - but thanks!

Daire and Kumate - I'm looking into filters .. Anything worth getting my hands on? Soft focus - softar? They expensive do you know? anad available in Gunns/equivalent?

something like this maybe
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-cokin-p850-diffuser-3-filter/p1000760

Gunns might have them, Im sure they could order them and get them quick enough

kumate_champ07

just had an idea, why not have a cigarette with one of those long filters like back in the golden hollywood era?
Maybe you could borrow some antiques, like a makeup holder, have the lady applying it in front of an oval antique mirror(or 1 of those mirrors with bulbs all around it, might be hard to get) with cigarette smoke rising from an ashtray at the side

stcstc

i belive beauty dish type lighting was used quite a lot for that kinda stuff

DaireQuinlan

I buckled under and actually ordered some of that efke aura the other day. One of the things I want to try is shooting it at as a normal portrait film, unfiltered (or at least only lightly filtered, yellow or a red 25a). Hopefully the lack of any anti-halation layer ought to give a hazy soft focus look to the highlights. I'm interested in how it'll turn out, I can't seem to find any examples of people using it as anything other than an IR film.

On a related note actually, you might try giving some film a good wash and then reeling it back onto the roll. That ought to get rid of the anti-halation layer, for much the same effect as above. Or at least -might- do, it could probably do with a wee experiment some other time before doing it on a shoot :-)

Uhhh, actually, does anyone know if 120 even has an anti-halation backing ? Or is it just 35mm ?

ThOnda

Well, you can always use cheapo UV filter with some greasy fingerprints. But don't forget that photographers that time used professional retouchers who worked with single hair brushes to alter the negatives. IMHO, you would get the closest to the required pictures using digital processing.

sineadw

No idea Daire. I'm willing to experiment in the future, but I need to get this one under my belt properly, and then I can feel a bit better about playing

Thanks all for the advice. Steve, the studio has a beauty dish so I'll ask the lecturer to go over that with me beforehand. Cheers - had forgotten about that And was thinking about cigarettes, but it'd set the alarms off in college I think you can get fake stuff though? That'll have to wait for the next one...

The more I look at the second shot, the more I think there's some selective skin softening done in post-production? Her eyes and hair look equally sharp, but her nose and cheekbones are beautifully soft. Hard to tell in such a small size, but does anyone else see that?

sineadw

ThOnda wrote: »

Well, you can always use cheapo UV filter with some greasy fingerprints. But don't forget that photographers that time used professional retouchers who worked with single hair brushes to alter the negatives. IMHO, you would get the closest to the required pictures using digital processing.

Cross posting - see above I think you're right!

And I always work with greasy, fingerprinted filters. I thought you knew that ;)

melekalikimaka

ilford sfx could be similar... or am i talking out my ass?

sineadw

melekalikimaka wrote: »

am i talking out my ass?

Probably

I've seen true IR film used for portraiture (with very mixed results) but not sfx afair. Not sure it'd be very flattering?

melekalikimaka

that first image is a ir film effect plug in, so shooting ir should get that effect... i thinks its pretty similar...

melekalikimaka

i actually have 2 photoshoots with ilford 50... will root them out... it was for a uber high key project... will try root them out

DaireQuinlan

melekalikimaka wrote: »

ilford sfx could be similar... or am i talking out my ass?

SFX might be similar in terms of how it renders flesh tones, ie I guess there ought to be a touch of IR added to skintones, making them slightly lighter. It's certainly apparent if you use SFX even with just a light red filter. The specific thing I was thinking of is that bloom that happens around highlights on classic IR films, like Kodak HIE. This is because they didn't have an anti-halation layer. SFX has one, efke aura is identical to another efke IR film (820 iirc ?) but without this backing, so you get that bloom. Hence the name.