On college fees...

invincibleirish

irish_bob wrote: »

cliched baseless nonsense

No it isn't.

invincibleirish

Diarmuid wrote: »

My point is that your statement is wrong. And please don't twist it into something else. You made a very simple statement, just admit it is wrong.

Whats wrong with your critical faculties? can you not realise that the Irish taxpayer subsidising fee paying schools is inherently unfair?

amacachi

Amhran Nua wrote: »

We might wait until they have their own system sorted out before we try copying them.

Or even better, lets not copy them at all.

Did you notice the word "similar" in my post?

And that link could be used to criticise our own system in the same way. When I started college I had to pay the Registration fee upfront (which meant getting a lend from my 80 year old grandmother) and it was January before it was finally refunded. I didn't get my first grant payment til well into November.

jimmycrackcorm

I believe the loan system should be introduced but with a paye tax credit rebate over time after graduation. We subsidized education that benefited other countries for too long.

Amhran Nua

amacachi wrote: »

And that link could be used to criticise our own system in the same way. When I started college I had to pay the Registration fee upfront (which meant getting a lend from my 80 year old grandmother) and it was January before it was finally refunded. I didn't get my first grant payment til well into November.

But that link isn't being used to criticise our system, its being used to criticise the system you said we should emulate. Any and all obstacles to universally available (not so much liberal arts degrees mind you) third level education must be removed, and that includes crazy registration fees and private loan companies. The reasons for this have already been outlined in an earlier post.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I believe the loan system should be introduced but with a paye tax credit rebate over time after graduation. We subsidized education that benefited other countries for too long.

One of the most repeated points about the student loan system is that its easily manageable over time, would that provide enough of an incentive for students to stay here when there are no jobs? If the jobs were here in anything other than building houses, we wouldn't be paying for our young people to emigrate.

amacachi

Amhran Nua wrote: »

But that link isn't being used to criticise our system, its being used to criticise the system you said we should emulate. Any and all obstacles to universally available (not so much liberal arts degrees mind you) third level education must be removed, and that includes crazy registration fees and private loan companies. The reasons for this have already been outlined in an earlier post.

The link is about delays in payments, which already occur here.
I don't see how delayed-payment loans are a barrier to entry to college to be perfectly honest. I know way too many people who went on to "college" or PLCs or similar for no reason other than to get cash in their pockets while there and had no interest in the course. Unless of course you think we should have an arbitrary set of rules on which courses should and shouldn't be eligible.

I'm in a position where I have to pay fees for this year and I'm fine with it. I want to better myself and am willing to pay for it. People who aren't, tough.

irish_bob

amacachi wrote: »

The link is about delays in payments, which already occur here.
I don't see how delayed-payment loans are a barrier to entry to college to be perfectly honest. I know way too many people who went on to "college" or PLCs or similar for no reason other than to get cash in their pockets while there and had no interest in the course. Unless of course you think we should have an arbitrary set of rules on which courses should and shouldn't be eligible.

I'm in a position where I have to pay fees for this year and I'm fine with it. I want to better myself and am willing to pay for it. People who aren't, tough.

a culture of mediocrity in our 3rd level system has developed since the removal of fees

Diarmuid

invincibleirish wrote: »

Whats wrong with your critical faculties? can you not realise that the Irish taxpayer subsidising fee paying schools is inherently unfair?

Grow up.

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

a culture of mediocrity in our 3rd level system has developed since the removal of fees

You are basing this on what exactly?? Wheres the evidence??

invincibleirish

Diarmuid wrote: »

Grow up.

Best you can do? yawn.

Amhran Nua

amacachi wrote: »

The link is about delays in payments, which already occur here.

Okay, can you show me the link to the delays in payments in Ireland article. And thats only the first and most immediate problem I found with their system.

amacachi wrote: »

I know way too many people who went on to "college" or PLCs or similar for no reason other than to get cash in their pockets while there and had no interest in the course.

Have you ever tried to survive on a student grant? Apparently you have according to your posts, so you should know that almost anything is a better way to make money than that.

amacachi wrote: »

Unless of course you think we should have an arbitrary set of rules on which courses should and shouldn't be eligible.

Eligible for what?

amacachi wrote: »

I'm in a position where I have to pay fees for this year and I'm fine with it. I want to better myself and am willing to pay for it. People who aren't, tough.

So, clearly not doing basic economics then.

sceptre

invincibleirish wrote: »

Whats wrong with your critical faculties?

Diarmuid wrote: »

Grow up.

Kindly have your handbag fight somewhere else. Obviously that applies to everyone else as well.

Daithinski

realcam wrote: »

Ok,

The point I was raising was merely about people with 3rd level degrees who can't get a job in Ireland and are leaving the country. Is this a failure of the education system, is it that we provide 'too much' education? And should we recover some of the money from people who leave the country after obtaining their degree?

Its probably cheaper to pay for someones education and for them to emigrate, rather than pay their social welfare for "x" amount of years.

Instead of "recovering" money from emigrants, maybe they should be given an emigration "grant".


As Lenihan (senior) said "sure we can't all live on this little island" (or words to that effect)

Amhran Nua

Daithinski wrote: »

As Lenihan (senior) said "sure we can't all live on this little island" (or words to that effect)

A comment for which he should have been run out of politics on a rail. Besides, the country managed to support twice the current population halfway through the 19th century, we can do a little better today.

dearg lady

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The wealthy already pay 80% of the taxes in the country.

Amhran Nua, just wondering where you get this figure from, have you a link, and what's the income threshold for 'wealthy' in this case? It's just peoples perceptions could be very different.

Amhran Nua

dearg lady wrote: »

Amhran Nua, just wondering where you get this figure from, have you a link, and what's the income threshold for 'wealthy' in this case? It's just peoples perceptions could be very different.

Here you go...

Recent estimates supplied by the Revenue to Labour Party finance spokeswoman Joan Burton showed that half of all income tax was paid by those earning more than €100,000 a year.

As about 150,000 taxpayers fall into this group (taxpayers are defined as individuals or couples who are jointly assessed), a significant part of the income tax burden is paid by a relatively small group of higher earners. In fact, a quarter of all income tax is paid by around 30,000 taxpayers who earn more than €200,000. At the far end of the spectrum, more than 750,00 of the lowest earners pay no tax at all.

Thats above €100k. As you drop it down to €80k, which I would still define as wealthy, the percentage becomes commensurately higher, although I don't have those exact figures handy.