How do I lower my cholesterol?

El_Dangeroso

Diarmuid wrote: »

Red meat has lots of saturated fat.
As for low-fat, well I guess if it's low in fat then the implication is that it's low in saturated fat too.

You'd be surprised, saturated fat does a lot of good things to your cholesterol profile. Raising HDL and increasing big fluffy protective LDL while reducing oxidised and small dense LDL, which are highly associated with having a cardiac event as well as overall mortality. This is without changing any other factor in the diet.

Diarmuid

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

You'd be surprised, saturated fat does a lot of good things to your cholesterol profile. .

Ok. I don't profess to be an expert. Far from it. I just understood that conventional wisdom was that saturated fats were bad for cholesterol

Khannie

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Why?

I thought people who ate lots of red meat tended to have a higher incidence of bowel cancer (for one).

El_Dangeroso

Diarmuid wrote: »

Ok. I don't profess to be an expert. Far from it. I just understood that conventional wisdom was that saturated fats were bad for cholesterol

It is conventional wisdom unfortunately, but it's based on really shoddy science from around 50 years ago. Ever since then there have been a load of studies showing the exact opposite, but the dogma persists.

There have been 12 major intervention trials on saturated fat and heart disease.

• Two trials found that replacing saturated animal fat with polyunsaturated vegetable fat decreased total mortality.
• Two trials found that replacing saturated animal fat with polyunsaturated vegetable fat increased total mortality.
• Eight trials found that reducing saturated fat had no effect on total mortality.

Of the two trials that found a benefit of saturated fat reduction, neither was properly controlled

corkcomp

Diarmuid wrote: »

Jut got the results of my first blood test (apart from from when I was young and in hospital). I'm 33, 64kgs , 170cm. Do quite a bit of exercise and I eat relatively well(IMHO). However my cholesterol is outside the recommended range.

Type|g/l|mmol/l
total|2.19|5.65
HDL|0.59|1.52
LDL|1.48|3.83
triclycerides|0.76|0.86

I take it that these are not crazy but actionable? A lot of what I eat is cooked in a pan with olive oil, chicken curry, some fishes, any steaks etc. I guess this is out from now on?

those stats are not too bad, but HDL could do with being higher - lots of exercise and good fats will help ... keep cheese and red meat in moderation and same with other saturated fats, that should bring LDL down, ldl should be under three ideally ... trigliceride levels are ok ... you will need to do some research and form your own conclusion on saturated fat intake, but in my experience I significantly altered cholesterol (increased hdl and lowered ldl) but doing plenty exercise, eating porridge and lots of fruit and vegetables, and keeping saturated fat intake to a minimum

El_Dangeroso

Khannie wrote: »

I thought people who ate lots of red meat tended to have a higher incidence of bowel cancer (for one).

I presume you mean this study. That study used self-reporting questionnaires, which you can imagine are notoriously inaccurate. Also the group that ate the most red meat ate the most refined carbs in the form of snack food and sweets and the most alcohol. They just reported the red meat aspect for some reason. Also cohort studies like this can suggest links between A and B but by definition cannot prove causality.

We've been eating red meat for over two million years now. I doubt we would have evolved to eat something that is harmful to our bodies. Natural selection would have taken care of that long ago. I'd be more inclined to blame more recent introductions into our food chain.

corkcomp

I though this thread was to help OP lower cholesterol? Maybe a master thread should be started where people could debate all day on saturated fat, red meat and some other topics that seem to get dragged into EVERY thread lol

El_Dangeroso

corkcomp wrote: »

I though this thread was to help OP lower cholesterol? Maybe a master thread should be started where people could debate all day on saturated fat, red meat and some other topics that seem to get dragged into EVERY thread lol

It is. I posted some excellent scientifically proven strategies a few posts ago.

Telling the OP to reduce sat fat isn't going to do diddly for avoiding the risk of a heart attack, despite what anecdotes people may have.

Khannie

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Natural selection would have taken care of that long ago. I'd be more inclined to blame more recent introductions into our food chain.

Natural selection is only relevant during your child bearing years and cancer usually happens after them. People generally didn't live far beyond them in the olden days too.

I wasn't sure which study it was, I had just heard that. I'm sure I read it in holfords book which I was reading recently too.

But yeah, I take your point on recent additions to the food chain. Things higher up tend to have accumulated more crap though too (heavy metals etc.).

For what it's worth, I eat a lot of red meat myself. I mean a *lot* and I'm not terribly worried about bowel cancer right now. I might move more towards getting protein from non-red-meat sources as I get older though.

El_Dangeroso

Khannie wrote: »

For what it's worth, I eat a lot of red meat myself. I mean a *lot* and I'm not terribly worried about bowel cancer right now. I might move more towards getting protein from non-red-meat sources as I get older though.

Just look at any non-western population that eats a lot of red meat, their bowel cancer levels are non existant, even into old age.

When I see a good intervention trial that takes two groups of people and advises one to eat no red meat and the other to eat red meat and the red meat group gets statistically more cancer, I'll take the theory seriously.

In the meantime, I'm avoiding too much omega 6 and sugar, which are far more implicated in a variety of cancers than red meat.

Diarmuid

corkcomp wrote: »

those stats are not too bad, but HDL could do with being higher - lots of exercise and good fats will help ... keep cheese and red meat in moderation and same with other saturated fats, that should bring LDL down, ldl should be under three ideally ... trigliceride levels are ok ...

I had a quick look on Wikipedia and this in particular interested me

Most testing methods for LDL do not actually measure LDL in their blood, much less particle size. For cost reasons, LDL values have long been estimated using the Friedewald formula (or a variant): [total cholesterol] − [total HDL] − 20% of the triglyceride value = estimated LDL. The basis of this is that Total cholesterol is defined as the sum of HDL, LDL, and VLDL. Usually, just the total, HDL, and triglycerides are actually measured.

when I apply that formula to my figures the LDL figure matches, which leads me to believe that the LDL were not measured. Does this make sense?

I guess either way I have to reduce the LDL figure and increase the HDL (less so) to get to where I need to be

dearg lady

Hi, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it seemed pointless starting another??
I'm trying to understand this and get some general advice, but I really don't have a clue!
Am I right in saying the total cholesterol level is made up of the two parts, HDL and LDL, but just one is bad? or what way does it work? And triclycerides, are they a type of cholesterol or totally separate?
Sorry for probably stupid questions, my mams on tablets for this and it worries me she's taking tablets long term, if there was a way to just adjust diet I'd feel better, as would she! thanks

corkcomp

dearg lady wrote: »

Hi, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it seemed pointless starting another??
I'm trying to understand this and get some general advice, but I really don't have a clue!
Am I right in saying the total cholesterol level is made up of the two parts, HDL and LDL, but just one is bad? or what way does it work? And triclycerides, are they a type of cholesterol or totally separate?
Sorry for probably stupid questions, my mams on tablets for this and it worries me she's taking tablets long term, if there was a way to just adjust diet I'd feel better, as would she! thanks

firstly, your mum should NOT stop taking the tabs (statins) wihout medical advice ... there is a good chance she needs to be on them... hdl and ldl makes total, the higher the hdl the better and the ldl should be low if possible ... a really healthy lipid profile would have ldl and hdl of similar values ... also, im sure your mums doc would have tried giving dietary advice before prescribing the tabs but there is only so much doctors can do, as often the patients are not willing to make the necessary changes ...

dearg lady

corkcomp wrote: »

firstly, your mum should NOT stop taking the tabs (statins) wihout medical advice ... there is a good chance she needs to be on them... hdl and ldl makes total, the higher the hdl the better and the ldl should be low if possible ... a really healthy lipid profile would have ldl and hdl of similar values ... also, im sure your mums doc would have tried giving dietary advice before prescribing the tabs but there is only so much doctors can do, as often the patients are not willing to make the necessary changes ...

Hi, thanks, no, they are prescribed by the doc, but the doc is an idiot, she won't change gps. He offered absolutely NO alternatives, well one or two suggestions on food(which she keeps to), but essentially he thinks tablets are the only thing. I used go to the same GP, I was gettin run down constantly and asked him for suggestions in what could be wrong in my diet and he actually laughed in my face, seems he wants to treat the symptoms but not the cause. I've since improved my diet and don't get sick half as often.

She's taking Lipitor but she really hates taking it(never mind the expense!!) I'l ask what her cholesterol different levels are. And I suggested maybe she go to a dietician, would this be in any way useful?

EDit: Sorry corkcomp, just realised I read your message wrong!! No I agree she shouldn't just stop taking em, more so I was hoping if she got good diet advice that over time they could lower the dosage.

El_Dangeroso

Diarmuid wrote: »

I had a quick look on Wikipedia and this in particular interested me

Most testing methods for LDL do not actually measure LDL in their blood, much less particle size. For cost reasons, LDL values have long been estimated using the Friedewald formula (or a variant): [total cholesterol] − [total HDL] − 20% of the triglyceride value = estimated LDL. The basis of this is that Total cholesterol is defined as the sum of HDL, LDL, and VLDL. Usually, just the total, HDL, and triglycerides are actually measured.

when I apply that formula to my figures the LDL figure matches, which leads me to believe that the LDL were not measured. Does this make sense?

I guess either way I have to reduce the LDL figure and increase the HDL (less so) to get to where I need to be

Hi Diarmuid, that's right, LDL is almost always calculated using the Friedewald formula, as directly measuring LDL is a very expensive test that isn't widely available. The Friedewald equation becomes inaccurate if the trigs are less than 100 mg/dL which in your case is true.

Your HDL is also fairly high so the LDL that you do have is going to be big and fluffy and heart-protective.

mega man

You cant go wrong with raw home made vegetable and fruit juices. they are the key to optimal health. forget benecol.

El_Dangeroso

mega man wrote: »

You cant go wrong with raw home made vegetable and fruit juices. they are the key to optimal health. forget benecol.

Not so sure about fruit juices, fructose goes straight to the liver and gets converted to triglycerides directly, so too much would be a bad idea.

Agreed about the benecol though, no evidence at all that they reduce CHD.

mega man

apologies. fruit smoothies would be better than juices.

El_Dangeroso

mega man wrote: »

apologies. fruit smoothies would be better than juices.

The whole fruit would be even better

Diarmuid

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Your HDL is also fairly high so the LDL that you do have is going to be big and fluffy and heart-protective.

I don't quite follow you. Is that good or bad?

El_Dangeroso

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't quite follow you. Is that good or bad?

All good

sunshinyday

Diarmuid wrote: »

Thanks. I think it's all diet for me. I currently do tons of cycling (competitively) so I can only improve on the diet side. However I do eat a Mediterranean(ish) diet so cheese and red meat gets eaten quite a bit. That has to go

hows your cholesterol now? i was doing a search here and found your reply, id be very similar in terms of exercise as yourself. got a reading of 7.0 on the cholesterol, have changed my diet i hope the high reading was more related to a crappy inactive winter due to the icy weather and comfort eating in the cold. Feel good already after 3 weeks of diet change but just curious how yours is now seeing as this is quite an old thread

Sapsorrow

I agree with what Corkcomp said a while back about going to the doctor OP, a psychiatrist isn't trained as a nutritionist or a medical doctor, I'd go talk to someone more qualified if this is still an issue for you.

Darkginger

I thought psychiatrists WERE trained as medical doctors, and it was psychologists who weren't?

Sapsorrow

Darkginger wrote: »

I thought psychiatrists WERE trained as medical doctors, and it was psychologists who weren't?

Oh maybe you're right I was under the impression that they study pharmacology and a few related areas of medicine without doing the whole haul?

corkcomp

this thread is donkeys years old!

@ sunshinyday - yes being inactive and comfort eating ticks all the right boxes for having raised cholesterol

El_Dangeroso

Darkginger wrote: »

I thought psychiatrists WERE trained as medical doctors, and it was psychologists who weren't?

Yeah they do, they work their year as a resident, qualify as MD's and then specialise. Although depending on how long they're out of the internal medicine game they still might not know what they're talking about when it comes to cholesterol.

Heck, I've met cardiologists that have no idea what their talking about when it comes to cholesterol!:D

neuro-praxis

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Heck, I've met cardiologists that have no idea what their talking about when it comes to cholesterol!:D

These kinds of comments really irk me.

If I had a heart condition, I'd be listening to the advice of my cardiologist and not some randomer off the internet.

corkcomp

neuro-praxis wrote: »

These kinds of comments really irk me.

If I had a heart condition, I'd be listening to the advice of my cardiologist and not some randomer off the internet.

I agree. the comments stem from the fact that most cardiologists would have different ideas on how to reduce cholesterol than some of the posters on here. and before you go off on one temple - no offence meant:)

Limerickgal82

People presume having a fatty diet, drinking loads etc affects your cholesterol but people need to realise also that it can be genetic. My entire family have high cholesterol and no matter what we do it is near impossible to reduce it. So everyone should get this checked and check their family history. This poster should go to his/ her doctor and they will advise better than anyone on how to reduce it !