Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Fromvert

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Just checked ESPN.

Started 16 games and came on as a sub for 3. I would say that is more then most of the squad.

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=7832&cc=5739

You would swear he barely got a game the way some go on.

SlickRic

whatawaster wrote: »

Keane was treated perfectly fine.

i'm sorry, but on this point and this point alone, i have to vaguely agree with Boggles.

rafa's way of handling players did not suit keane, and you could see that. rafa, in his stubborness, is not the type of manager to put his arm around a player. he has to take some responsibility in that.

robbie has to look a little at his attitude too of course, but rafa is not blameless.

rafa didn't fancy him, and was sold. thus winning the boardroom battle. (i.e. keane had been used in the power struggle).

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, why did you ignore my question?

Do you think Alex Ferguson is evil?

Jesus Christ Al.

Ferguson is not Evil, Rafa is not Evil.

What Rafa did was evil.

I could have said what Rafa did was Shítty.

Would you be on here asking if I think Ferguson is a shítty person.

whatawaster

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm sorry, but on this point and this point alone, i have to vaguely agree with Boggles.

rafa's way of handling players did not suit keane, and you could see that. rafa, in his stubborness, is not the type of manager to put his arm around a player. he has to take some responsibility in that.

robbie has to look a little at his attitude too of course, but rafa is not blameless.

rafa didn't fancy him, and was sold. thus winning the boardroom battle. (i.e. keane had been used in the power struggle).

Keane is an adult. I'm part of a team at work but i don't expect my boss to put his arm around me. I expect a professional relationship and that's what i get.
There's something very wrong with a player if they can't function without being "loved"

Mr Alan

thats exactly wat i'd be asking.

your feigned moral outrage is hilarious & unbelievably hypocritical.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

thats exactly wat i'd be asking.

your feigned moral outrage is hilarious & unbelievably hypocritical.

Morals have nothing to do with it Al, in fact my intentions were pretty selfish.

Keane is instrumental to the Irish Team, an Irish team I support.

Benitez could have wrecked Keanes career, therefore impacting on my life and the team I support.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

then why bleedin buy him!!!

he was bought to improve the team, but it was clear from day one that his style did not suit the current system, it happens, veron didn't work out and you knew after the first season the guy was uncomfortable playing with man utd but ferguson kept him on and lost big money, ditto Shevchenko, even the blind man on the street could see he was never going to work at chelsea by december of his first season there

SlickRic

whatawaster wrote: »

Keane is an adult. I'm part of a team at work but i don't expect my boss to put his arm around me. I expect a professional relationship and that's what i get.
There's something very wrong with a player if they can't function without being "loved"

though i do agree that he's responsible for himself, some football managers will do it anyway to get the best out of a player.

sometimes, you need to be flexible in how you handle players.

Mr Alan

ok, wat Rafa did to Keane wasn't really a big deal.

yet you have it down as evil & not surprising.

Fromvert

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I didn't say you, I said some. I'm the cool one :cool:

Spiritoftheseventies

Boggles wrote: »

Morals have nothing to do with it Al, in fact my intentions were pretty selfish.

Keane is instrumental to the Irish Team, an Irish team I support.

Benitez could have wrecked Keanes career, therefore impacting on my life and the team I support.

Is Rafa's treatment of Keane any worse than Trap's treatment of Andy Reid. Rafa gave Robbie a good run which is more than what can said of Trap in terms of Reid. So less of the dramatics. Ill admit Keane could have been tried in another position but Rafa has his ways.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

WTF are you on about?

Tis pretty simple.

I'm Irish, the vast majority in here are Irish, the vast majority of them support the Irish national team, Robbie Keane is the Irish team Captain and quite possibly our most important player.

I couldn't give a fook if Rafa was a Pakistani Postman.

Well if you do not give a fook about where he is from, then why bring it up?

You are right though it is simple. You needed to bring up nationalities to try and get your point across in a crass manner. That nasty Spaniard picking on the poor Irish lad, who lest we forget is "one of our own so to speak"

You might be happy to use tabloid tactics when trying to make a point, but there are those of us here that find that way offensive.

You were unable to put your point across without stooping to lowest common denominator stuff like bringing nationalities into it.

Shame you are Irish and living in Ireland, because if you were English you could speak for the BNP or work for The Sun.

You may think nothing of using cheap tactics in your comments, but I am of dual nationality and have seen first hand the ignorance of those that use the nationality card to make a point or to throw an insult. Both from Irish people who cannot understand how an Irish born person, myself, can have a foreign surname as part of his surname, and from living in both the UK and Germany.


Like I said early, I am surprised that you chose that cheap tactic.

Mr Alan

bayviewclose wrote: »

Is Rafa's treatment of Keane any worse than Trap's treatment of Andy Reid. Rafa gave Robbie a good run which is more than what can said of Trap in terms of Reid. So less of the dramatics. Ill admit Keane could have been tried in another position but Rafa has his ways.

do you not remember the outrage in the media when Rafa put Robbie out on the left for a game?!

(something Redknapp has done since Robbie went back to Spurs, but has gone without much note in the media)

rossie1977

Boggles wrote: »

Benitez could have wrecked Keanes career, therefore impacting on my life and the team I support.

less of the drama please, keane started 16 league games at liverpool, came on as sub in 3 others, started 4 in the champions league, came on as sub in one other, by december 20th of last year keane had scored in ONE game in the league, yes 1

Boggles

Kess73 wrote: »

Well if you do not give a fook about where he is from, then why bring it up?

You are right though it is simple. You needed to bring up nationalities to try and get your point across in a crass manner. That nasty Spaniard picking on the poor Irish lad, who lest we forget is "one of our own so to speak"

You might be happy to use tabloid tactics when trying to make a point, but there are those of us here that find that way offensive.

You were unable to put your point across without stooping to lowest common denominator stuff like bringing nationalities into it.

Shame you are Irish and living in Ireland, because if you were English you could speak for the BNP or work for The Sun.

You may think nothing of using cheap tactics in your comments, but I am of dual nationality and have seen first hand the ignorance of those that use the nationality card to make a point or to throw an insult. Both from Irish people who cannot understand how an Irish born person, myself, can have a foreign surname as part of his surname, and from living in both the UK and Germany.


Like I said early, I am surprised that you chose that cheap tactic.

Jesus I have been accused of many things but a BNP Sun reader.

Tis a first.

I take back bringing Nationalities into it though, and I apologise Kess.

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

do you think Alex Ferguson is evil?

ryan giggs and lee sharpe might think so

did you ever see what they were about to *tap* before alex threw them out of the party?

beckham might also might think so, depending on the velocity with that boot was kicked.

Why alex ferguson is being brought into something again, is beyond me.

United fans are more than happy to admit alex's failings.

his bad signings. etc.

but what has it got to do with rafa?

SlickRic

ntlbell wrote: »

but what has it got to do with rafa?

you're right.

and rafa's done nothing disgusting or evil.

he could have managed the thing a whole lot better, but that's about it.

he did what he thought was best for the club in january first and foremost, and not keane.

it worked out for keane ok in the end though. he had a difficult few months, then left. his boyhood club had shunned him, and i'm sure he was hurt by it. but he's back at spurs, plays in his favoured position, and is enjoying his football.

c'est la vie. he's an adult, and will live on.

Spiritoftheseventies

To clear this up. Rafa is head strong. He also blanked out Bellamy in last Champions league final when maybe he could have changed the game. So he does not pick on one individual. Who knows maybe Rafa and Trap are strong on discipline and team unity. They seem to be two very strong minded people.
And remember Ferguson did the same with Van Nistleroy.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

you're right.

and rafa's done nothing disgusting or evil.

he could have managed the thing a whole lot better, but that's about it.

he did what he thought was best for the club in january first and foremost, and not keane.

it worked out for keane ok in the end though. he had a difficult few months, then left. his boyhood club had shunned him, and i'm sure he was hurt by it. but he's back at spurs, plays in his favoured position, and is enjoying his football.

c'est la vie. he's an adult, and will live on.

It worked out for Keane, thankfully.

Rafa using him to make a point was BAD.

ntlbell

Boggles wrote: »

was BAD.

very unprofessional and very poor man management.

Boggles

ntlbell wrote: »

very unprofessional and very poor man management.

Quite frankly a pretty crappy thing to do.

Basically jeoprodising someones career to further your own.

Mr Alan

ntlbell wrote: »

very unprofessional and very poor man management.

i disagree.if anything it was too professional & a gamble, but one that worked out well last season.

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

Rafa using him to make a point was BAD.

ha, nice

i do agree. from the point of view that he dealt with it all in such an impersonal way.

i've always been of the opinion that managers need to be flexible in the way they handle players. and that was my main problem with the whole thing. you could tell too easily that Keane wasn't wanted.

Keane should've had a better attitude, of course. there's no doubt about that.

but that doesn't completely excuse Rafa his role in it either. some players, whether managers like it or not, need a slightly different management style.

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

It worked out for Keane, thankfully.

Rafa using him to make a point was BAD.

ntlbell wrote: »

very unprofessional and very poor man management.

Boggles wrote: »

Quite frankly a pretty crappy thing to do.

Basically jeoprodising someones career to further your own.

The pair of you are embarrassing yourselves at this stage.

It is time for this thread to be locked of moved to The Thunderdome.

Villain

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It is time for this thread to be locked of moved to The Thunderdome.

Back seat modding, thats nice.

This thread is valid and seems to be only Pool in the main that have a problem with it, if Liverpool go on a winning run and Rafa turns things around then maybe it will no longer be valid. Although tbh I think once Pool fans start to turn on Rafa these threads will spiral.

Mr Alan

start to spiral!? there is already 1300+ posts in this thread!

Can we make one of these with every manager & team?

Mr Alan

in fairness, our run of awful form deserves to be talked about & i understand why it is.

however the doomsday scenario some have predicted will make some people look rather foolish i think. just as similar thread about Wenger last season & Ferguson a few years ago have shown how silly some people are. for example, pretty sure someone quoted PHB calling for Ferguson to be sacked a few years ago saying he was long past it.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

in fairness, our run of awful form deserves to be talked about & i understand why it is.

however the doomsday scenario some have predicted will make some people look rather foolish i think.

Like the time I said Alonso is gone and you did the usual speil of Boggles you know fook all.

The OP raised some decent points flavoured with his own opinions, thus far he is looking more right than wrong TBF.

Mr Alan

you're a funny lad Boggles, you are right occassionally, this is true, however...you are quite often wrong as well so lets not pretend your some sort of mystic!

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

you're a funny lad Boggles, you are right occassionally, this is true, however...you are quite often wrong as well so lets not pretend your some sort of mystic!

Link?

jesus_thats_gre

Villain wrote: »

Back seat modding, thats nice.

Ah give me a break, will you! You would swear that I attacked someone personally.

Those three quotes give the impression that the lads are talking on MSN or something trying to come up with nonsense to post together.

Villain wrote: »

This thread is valid and seems to be only Pool in the main that have a problem with it, if Liverpool go on a winning run and Rafa turns things around then maybe it will no longer be valid. Although tbh I think once Pool fans start to turn on Rafa these threads will spiral.

It's a valid thread alright. What it has become though isn't exactly what the purpose of the thread is.


Apologies to any mods if I have crossed a line by suggesting that the thread should be locked.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Link?

are you so arrogant that you think you're not wrong ever?!:eek:

off the top of my head, i'm pretty sure you predicted Liverpool would not be involved in the title race last year.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

are you so arrogant that you think you're not wrong ever?!:eek:

off the top of my head, i'm pretty sure you predicted Liverpool would not be involved in the title race last year.

And I was wrong about that how?

Mr Alan

because Liverpool were involved in the title race. they were Utds main competiitor for the title & it was tight.

are you going to pretend they were never in with a chance & that Utd had no threat to their title?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

because Liverpool were involved in the title race. they were Utds main competiitor for the title & it was tight.

are you going to pretend they were never in with a chance & that Utd had no threat to their title?

absoutely from day 1 I knew Liverpool didn't have enough to win the title.

Were they involved in the race, I suppose they were.

Huge difference between been involved in a race and realistically having a chance of winning it though.

United won the league with a game more to spare than the year before.

Villain

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It's a valid thread alright. What it has become though isn't exactly what the purpose of the thread is.

I agree there and think it needs to get back on topic.

I think Mondays game will be 3 points and will steady the ship for now but if they fail to qualify for the next round in the CL I think it may well be curtains for Rafa because while the Pool are still very much imo favourites for 4th in the PL I think pool fans are getting sick of having to settle for the top 4 and especially after 2 steps forward last year to only have taken 2 back so far this season. Liverpool are a massive club and they should be able to compete for the title but they look way short of that at the moment.

Mr Alan

but, at the start of the season, you didnt think Liverpool had what it took to be involved in the title race.

therefore, you were wrong.

5starpool

So if Utd finish 4 points behind this season they won't have been involved in the title race?

I believe there are very few biscuits that you have not taken, but you have just got another one there boggles.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

but, at the start of the season, you didnt think Liverpool had what it took to be involved in the title race.

therefore, you were wrong.

They never were involved in the title race IMO.

The league positions were fake because of Uniteds games in hand, once they got in front they stayed in front.



Was I right or wrong?

ntlbell

Boggles wrote: »

absoutely from day 1 I knew Liverpool didn't have enough to win the title.

Were they involved in the race, I suppose they were.

Huge difference between been involved in a race and realistically having a chance of winning it though.

United won the league with a game more to spare than the year before.

i think the fact that the pool blew such a lead in the prem proves why you were right, and why there was never any worries about the title.

united fans explained why on many threads why they wouldn't win it

they explained why they would blow the lead

and it all came home to roost.

spot on.

Mr Alan

Boggles, there is no way out of this.

You said last season Liverpool would not be in the mix when the seasons end approached.

They were.

You were wrong.

Are you really having that much difficulty in admitting that you can be wrong?!

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, there is no way out of this.

You said last season Liverpool would not be in the mix when the seasons end approached.

They were.

You were wrong.

Are you really having that much difficulty in admitting that you can be wrong?!

How am I wrong Al.

I said United would win the league and Liverpool wouldn't?

You said Chelsea by the way.

Mr Alan

you said Liverpool would not be involved in the title race.

they were.

we're not talking about you saying Liverpool wouldnt win the league. we're talking about you saying they wouldn't be in the title race.

Villain

Let me try help ye out, Boggles thought Liverpool wouldn't be in contention for the league at the start of the season and in his opinion they never were really in contention because UTD had a game in hand and once they won it and got in front they were always going to win.

Mr Alan thinks Liverpool were very much in contention because he thought Liverpool would had a real chance of winning.

Your both right based on your own opinions but wrong based the other persons opinion.

Accept it and move on imo

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

you said Liverpool would not be involved in the title race.

they were.

we're not talking about you saying Liverpool wouldnt win the league. we're talking about you saying they wouldn't be in the title race.

Al to be involved in a title race you have to have a realistic chance of winning it.

Agreed?

Mr Alan

no Villian.

Boggles thought Liverpool would not be in the title race. ie he thought they would not finish 2nd within a few points of Utd.

He was wrong.

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

no Villian.

Boggles thought Liverpool would not be in the title race. ie he thought they would not finish 2nd within a few points of Utd.

He was wrong.

Not in his opinion, he saw it as a one horse race with Utd the only possible winners, in his mind he was right in yours he was wrong.

If you can't accept other peoples views based on their opinions you will go around in circles for ever that goes for Boggles too

Mr Alan

I find it beyond belief that Boggles can't admit he is wrong about stuff.

& i don't really get why you're trying to justify it?!

Boggles thought Liverpool would not finish 2nd lst season. We did.

He was wrong.

Boggles thought Liverpool would not be Utds biggest threat to the title. They were.

He was wrong.